Sue the [censored]

Bro Deal said:

Bob Stapleton, T-Mobile manager, is urging the ASO and the IPCT to sue suspected dopers so their DNA can be obtained. I wonder if we will see teams suing riders for damages. Mancebo sued Ag2r to get the rest of his salary; why shouldn't Ag2r sue Mancebo to get the money back?

This from the same guy who runs a team suspected of doping back to 1996. The same team which hires two alleged drug pushers to administer the anti-doping policy and only after a week or two of inaction finally says that they'll "look into the matter". Where was the outrage after the Riis doping speculation last month. Let's not talk about the past if it reflects poorly upon T-Mobile. A team of hypocrites IMO. Its all about PR.

Serafino said:

This from the same guy who runs a team suspected of doping back to 1996. The same team which hires two alleged drug pushers to administer the anti-doping policy and only after a week or two of inaction finally says that they'll "look into the matter". Where was the outrage after the Riis doping speculation last month. Let's not talk about the past if it reflects poorly upon T-Mobile. A team of hypocrites IMO. Its all about PR.

[censored].

Serafino said:

This from the same guy who runs a team suspected of doping back to 1996. The same team which hires two alleged drug pushers to administer the anti-doping policy and only after a week or two of inaction finally says that they'll "look into the matter". Where was the outrage after the Riis doping speculation last month. Let's not talk about the past if it reflects poorly upon T-Mobile. A team of hypocrites IMO. Its all about PR.

You can't reasonably compare the 1996 Telkom team and the 2007 T Mobile team. Even if two of the doctors are the same, the whole culture is clean, and their testing procedures would make it very difficult for any of their riders to have a 60 percent hct. Yes, it's about PR, T Mobile said we want to be associated with a team of clean winners, not doped winners. What's wrong with that?

Rolfrae said:

You can't reasonably compare the 1996 Telkom team and the 2007 T Mobile team. Even if two of the doctors are the same, the whole culture is clean, and their testing procedures would make it very difficult for any of their riders to have a 60 percent hct. Yes, it's about PR, T Mobile said we want to be associated with a team of clean winners, not doped winners. What's wrong with that?

agreed. well said Rolfrae !

whiteboytrash said:

[censored].

A coward with a keyboard is always amusing. 🙄

I hope to have the opportunity to meet you face to face one day.

We'll see how quick you are to hurl insults then ....

Rolfrae said:

You can't reasonably compare the 1996 Telkom team and the 2007 T Mobile team. Even if two of the doctors are the same, the whole culture is clean, and their testing procedures would make it very difficult for any of their riders to have a 60 percent hct. Yes, it's about PR, T Mobile said we want to be associated with a team of clean winners, not doped winners. What's wrong with that?

If the allegations are true about the two doctors, its strains credulity to think that Telekom/T-Mobile management was blissfully unaware of what took place in days gone by ... and if that's the case, its completely irreponsible to put the same two in charge of "anti-doping". Where's the sense of outrage?

Interesting that many claim everyone is dirty but now are so quick to believe that T-Mobile is "clean". How do you know?

Serafino said:

If the allegations are true about the two doctors, its strains credulity to think that Telekom/T-Mobile management was blissfully unaware of what took place in days gone by ... and if that's the case, its completely irreponsible to put the same two in charge of "anti-doping". Where's the sense of outrage?

Interesting that many claim everyone is dirty but now are so quick to believe that T-Mobile is "clean". How do you know?

We don't know, but it is better to support the guys who are doing something about doping than the guys who are doing f-all, or worse still, guys like Disco, Astana, Tinkoff et al who are acting as if nothing has happened and ploughing on regardless. Of course it's not good if doctors who once doped are now supporting a team trying to start afresh. But this is the problem with cycling, even when fans like me speak out or support teams attempts to 'clean up' we get attacked. Well f**k it, I'm going outside to build a shrine to Manolo Saiz. 🙄

Rolfrae said:

We don't know, but it is better to support the guys who are doing something about doping than the guys who are doing f-all, or worse still, guys like Disco, Astana, Tinkoff et al who are acting as if nothing has happened and ploughing on regardless. Of course it's not good if doctors who once doped are now supporting a team trying to start afresh. But this is the problem with cycling, even when fans like me speak out or support teams attempts to 'clean up' we get attacked. Well f**k it, I'm going outside to build a shrine to Manolo Saiz. 🙄

Nobody is attacking you. I'm simply questioning T-Mobile's response. If the allegations stick vs. the two doctors, then we can't excuse team management's behavior. Surely, many people were complicit in the doping that went on. These can't be "new" allegations which startle the team.

Serafino said:

A coward with a keyboard is always amusing. 🙄

I hope to have the opportunity to meet you face to face one day.

We'll see how quick you are to hurl insults then ....

[font=Verdana]Well I hope one day you have the [censored] beaten out of you... no let me rephrase that I hope to have the beat farked out of you by this guy: [/font]
museumofdisability.org21Media1.jpgOpen ↗

Serafino said:

Nobody is attacking you. I'm simply questioning T-Mobile's response. If the allegations stick vs. the two doctors, then we can't excuse team management's behavior. Surely, many people were complicit in the doping that went on. These can't be "new" allegations which startle the team.

I think that maybe they can. Stapleton seems to have done as much as poss to get rid of anyone and everyone not willing to toe the anti-doping line. Maybe he just didn't know about these allegations until now? Let's see how he acts, I think it is safe to assume he's not an idiot, and he's also not an ex-rider who doped, and has come from a culture where cycling and doping are inseperable. I agree that team management needs to take responsibility but think we'd be better saving our harsh words for other team directors. Can I go and build my shrine to Saiz now? I've been saving up blocks of lard to use for it for months now. 😄

Serafino said:

A coward with a keyboard is always amusing. 🙄

I hope to have the opportunity to meet you face to face one day.

We'll see how quick you are to hurl insults then ....

Ah yeah! It's on.

What's the over/under. WTB in three rounds? Place your bets.

And you got to take the headphones off WTB so sera can box your ears.

I am moving this thread to a more apropriate forum. The "open up a can of whoop ass forum".
Wait a minute ..I am not a moderator ,.DOOH!

Serafino said:

This from the same guy who runs a team suspected of doping back to 1996. The same team which hires two alleged drug pushers to administer the anti-doping policy and only after a week or two of inaction finally says that they'll "look into the matter". Where was the outrage after the Riis doping speculation last month. Let's not talk about the past if it reflects poorly upon T-Mobile. A team of hypocrites IMO. Its all about PR.

Stapleton wasn't at T-Mobile in 1996. T-Mobile did the right thing by getting rid of the old management. They are the only team that has been willing to do this.

There is no outrage over Riis because you would have to be dumb as a bag of bobkes to not know that Riis doped. We know his exact hematocrit when he was racing for Gewiss.

Rotflmao!

Rolfrae said:

You can't reasonably compare the 1996 Telkom team and the 2007 T Mobile team. Even if two of the doctors are the same, the whole culture is clean, and their testing procedures would make it very difficult for any of their riders to have a 60 percent hct. Yes, it's about PR, T Mobile said we want to be associated with a team of clean winners, not doped winners. What's wrong with that?

Why then did T-mobile support Jan for so many years? What, they didn't know he was using? Please.

Rolfrae said:

You can't reasonably compare the 1996 Telkom team and the 2007 T Mobile team. Even if two of the doctors are the same, the whole culture is clean, and their testing procedures would make it very difficult for any of their riders to have a 60 percent hct. Yes, it's about PR, T Mobile said we want to be associated with a team of clean winners, not doped winners. What's wrong with that?

Dude, Serafino may have drank too much Discovery Channel kool-aid, but he is right on this. If T-Mobile's drug prevention plan is being headed by Docs who administered EPO to Riis and Ullrich in 1996 then that is ridiculous. That is NOT a clean culture.

I've felt a great deal of good will to T-Mobile on some fronts -- Stapleton is the only guy behind a ProTour team taking OP seriously (and I agree, sue the [censored]) -- but there has been consistent doping by riders on the team for years. They are, after all, a ProTour cycling team, and like almost every other team -- except maybe FDJ -- they have major, major problems. They need to fire those Doctors immediately and bring in real Doctors with ethical credentials. Even if the docs didn't personally administer drugs in 1996, they surely knew what was going on between 96 and 2006. No team Doctor is not going to be aware that the team star is having massive blood transfusions DURING a Grand Tour. Give me a break. T-Mobile should have known better.

tcklyde said:

Dude, Serafino may have drank too much Discovery Channel kool-aid, but he is right on this. If T-Mobile's drug prevention plan is being headed by Docs who administered EPO to Riis and Ullrich in 1996 then that is ridiculous. That is NOT a clean culture.

I've felt a great deal of good will to T-Mobile on some fronts -- Stapleton is the only guy behind a ProTour team taking OP seriously (and I agree, sue the [censored]) -- but there has been consistent doping by riders on the team for years. They are, after all, a ProTour cycling team, and like almost every other team -- except maybe FDJ -- they have major, major problems. They need to fire those Doctors immediately and bring in real Doctors with ethical credentials. Even if the docs didn't personally administer drugs in 1996, they surely knew what was going on between 96 and 2006. No team Doctor is not going to be aware that the team star is having massive blood transfusions DURING a Grand Tour. Give me a break. T-Mobile should have known better.

You still can't reasonably compare the two teams, the only consistent factor is the two doctors, but I also agree, if there's a whiff of scandal, sack the docs - that's the way they treated the riders last year, so why not the support staff? One possibility, which might be rubbish: do you think they kept these two docs because they thought that they had inside knowledge of how doping works and could therefore keep an eye on the riders (with a view to preventing them doping - they would know what to look for)?

Serafino said:

A coward with a keyboard is always amusing. 🙄

I hope to have the opportunity to meet you face to face one day.

We'll see how quick you are to hurl insults then ....

I know WBT well. You would be ill-advised to provoke him. For your own safety's sake, I beg you to apologize immediately.

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