Successful Back Surgery Anyone?

I'm happy you feel better. If I may ask, have you ever ridden a bicycle
before?

vinceL5disc said:

Hi, I'm posting here to ask if anyone who rides has had what they
consider a successful back surgery. I had disc surgery a while ago and
am putting together a website and pamphlet about people who have had
successful procedures.

Before I had my surgery, I was doing research and all I found were
horror stories. Which was a shame because the surgery has changed my
life for the better - It would have saved me a lot of anxiety if I had
heard some good stories.

If you want to post here in rec.bicycles.racing thats great, or contact
me at the address below if you are ok with me using your anecdotes -
thanks - vincel5disc email: masterofnone (at symbol here)
manifoldrecords (dot here) com

I wish you the very best and I hope you have continued success.

As it stands, about 1/3 of patients do better, 1/3 do worse and 1/3
stay the same.

The re-operative rate for a discectomy at 5 years is 15%. For a fusion
the re-operative rate is 18%. And that's just the ones they can talk
into doing it.
Spine 1998 Apr 1;23(7):814-820

I'm not sure what options you tried before surgery but I hope in your
website and pamphlet you put things like:

Av-Med Study-
.... study included 80 patients, each of whom was previously treated by
a medical doctor and subsequently referred to the
Silverman Chiropractic Center. Of these 80 patients, 21 % had been
diagnosed with disc problems, 5% received emergency
room treatment and 12% had been diagnosed as requiring surgery.

Following chiropractic treatment, no surgery was required. 86%
needed no further treatment at all. And the projected
savings on the patient study group was approximately $250,000.
The Av-Med Study, 1993.

"Nobody in America should be allowed to have back surgery unless they
have seen a Chiropractor first"
Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Former Chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee for the state of
Illinois, Associate Professor of Preventive medicine and Community
Health in the School of Medicine of the University of Illinois and the
recipient of numerous awards for excellence in medicine and medical
instruction.

D

"vinceL5disc" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm posting here to ask if anyone who rides has had what they
consider a successful back surgery. I had disc surgery a while ago and
am putting together a website and pamphlet about people who have had
successful procedures.

Not surgery, but back pain in general. My rheumatologist says exercise in
general, and specifically cycling, helps with pain relief for her patients.

Might be associated with this:

www.vard.org/jour/05/42/2/Hoffman.html

David Ferguson said:

vinceL5disc said:

Hi, I'm posting here to ask if anyone who rides has had what they
consider a successful back surgery. I had disc surgery a while ago and
am putting together a website and pamphlet about people who have had
successful procedures.

Before I had my surgery, I was doing research and all I found were
horror stories. Which was a shame because the surgery has changed my
life for the better - It would have saved me a lot of anxiety if I had
heard some good stories.

If you want to post here in rec.bicycles.racing thats great, or contact
me at the address below if you are ok with me using your anecdotes -
thanks - vincel5disc email: masterofnone (at symbol here)
manifoldrecords (dot here) com

I wish you the very best and I hope you have continued success.

As it stands, about 1/3 of patients do better, 1/3 do worse and 1/3
stay the same.

The re-operative rate for a discectomy at 5 years is 15%. For a fusion
the re-operative rate is 18%. And that's just the ones they can talk
into doing it.
Spine 1998 Apr 1;23(7):814-820

I'm not sure what options you tried before surgery but I hope in your
website and pamphlet you put things like:

Av-Med Study-
... study included 80 patients, each of whom was previously treated by
a medical doctor and subsequently referred to the
Silverman Chiropractic Center. Of these 80 patients, 21 % had been
diagnosed with disc problems, 5% received emergency
room treatment and 12% had been diagnosed as requiring surgery.

Following chiropractic treatment, no surgery was required. 86%
needed no further treatment at all. And the projected
savings on the patient study group was approximately $250,000.
The Av-Med Study, 1993.

"Nobody in America should be allowed to have back surgery unless they
have seen a Chiropractor first"
Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Former Chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee for the state of
Illinois, Associate Professor of Preventive medicine and Community
Health in the School of Medicine of the University of Illinois and the
recipient of numerous awards for excellence in medicine and medical
instruction.

D

You wouldn't happen to be a chiropractor, would you? Not that there's
anything wrong with that.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:42:44 -0700, Tim Lines <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You wouldn't happen to be a chiropractor, would you? Not that there's
anything wrong with that.

one cookie

People who have successful back surgeries tend to just go on with their
lives and don't talk/write about it, people with unsuccessful back
surgeries tend to never stop talking about it as their back pain ruined
their lives, that could explain your research results.

I had L5/S1 fused, back is like new, 10 years post op. They have
artificial discs now that weren't available when I had surgery, that
should increase the success of future surgeries.

David Ferguson said:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:42:44 -0700, Tim Lines <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You wouldn't happen to be a chiropractor, would you? Not that there's
anything wrong with that.

one cookie

That's reassuring. For a moment, I was worried about you.

Actually, I found your post interesting. My sister-in-law had back
surgery a couple years ago and it made her problems worse. I didn't
know that happened frequently. So I learned something.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:58:29 -0700, Tim Lines <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

David Ferguson said:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:42:44 -0700, Tim Lines <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You wouldn't happen to be a chiropractor, would you? Not that there's
anything wrong with that.

one cookie

That's reassuring. For a moment, I was worried about you.

Actually, I found your post interesting. My sister-in-law had back
surgery a couple years ago and it made her problems worse. I didn't
know that happened frequently. So I learned something.

Sometimes it is necessary but due to the risk of complications and
high failure rate it should be the LAST resort.

Sorry to hear about our sister-in-law. That's really rough.

D

Callistus Valerius said:

I'm happy you feel better. If I may ask, have you ever ridden a bicycle
before?

further info:
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=masterofnone+manifoldrecords

One thing I found consistently left out of all the literature from the
"don't have back surgery" side, many who seemed to be chiropractors, is
the danger of nerve damage from a ruptured disc. When one of your legs
dont respond to your commands for instance, you've reached a level of
nerve compression that can cause permanent damage. I don't think the
person suffering from back pain or has just a bulging disc need turn to
surgery. People can walk around with bulging discs and never know it.
But in my case, if I had listened to all the negative postings and
fix-your-back-without-surgery schemes out there, which I wanted to do
because I was scared to death of surgery...I'd probably be home on
disability now.

I also have to point out that the statement you quote is at least
twelve years old and back surgery is a done differently now.

And to answer the next question, yes, I went to see a chiro before I
saw any other kind of specialist. Even before the nerve compression
when all I had was back pain. He took X-rays and could see the severe
spinal curvature from my pain but he had no plan to offer except keep
coming for adjustments and do excercises. And it didn't help. I got
worse. Then finally my leg quit responding to my commands and I was
crippled from pain. Two and a half weeks after I saw a neurologist, I
had surgery and came out feeling better and have been better since.
That was six months ago and I spent a decade avoiding any doctor but a
chiro. Sorry, but my experience, not just my opinion, is a little
different.

I wish chiros and back surgeons would actually work together. Chiros
complain about the undeserved bad wrap they get from many doctors but
many chiros seem to have the same attitude toward doctors. It's the
patient that loses out.

Thanks, vinceL5disc

He's trying to point out with that link that I've posted a similar
question in other groups.

I posted in rec.bicycles.racing in particular because I thought that
people who have had successful back surgeries would get on with their
lives and do active things like ride bikes, which I can't picture
someone suffering from a bad back doing. So I thought I might find some
of that experience here. And hiking is one I know about, so I posted
there. I hike avidly and strapping on a 30 pound pack is out of the
question with a really bad back.

If I wanted to hear bad surgery stories, I'd go to
alt.support.chronic-pain, or a chiropractors newsgroup - makes sense,
right?

To answer Callistus; Yes, I rode a bike for a very long time, not
racing but to work and everywhere. It's not smart to do that in my city
these days, too many SUVs crowding what were already narrow roads with
glass-littered gutters.

thanks, vincel5disc

Before my surgery, I was obsessed with alt.support.chronic-pain, was
reading every post I could find about the back and it terrified me. And
then someone pointed out the obvious, which is what you said, that I
was looking in the one place I was sure to find all the worst stories.

It was like watching The Plane Crash Channel before stepping onto a
plane.

Fusion is supposed to be rough. And I've heard they used to just open
people up from stem to stern back then. Sheesh. My scar is maybe two
inches long at most. Did they use your hip bone for the fusion?

vinceL5disc said:

One thing I found consistently left out of all the literature from the
"don't have back surgery" side, many who seemed to be chiropractors, is
the danger of nerve damage from a ruptured disc. When one of your legs
dont respond to your commands for instance, you've reached a level of
nerve compression that can cause permanent damage. I don't think the
person suffering from back pain or has just a bulging disc need turn to
surgery. People can walk around with bulging discs and never know it.
But in my case, if I had listened to all the negative postings and
fix-your-back-without-surgery schemes out there, which I wanted to do
because I was scared to death of surgery...I'd probably be home on
disability now.

I also have to point out that the statement you quote is at least
twelve years old and back surgery is a done differently now.

And to answer the next question, yes, I went to see a chiro before I
saw any other kind of specialist. Even before the nerve compression
when all I had was back pain. He took X-rays and could see the severe
spinal curvature from my pain but he had no plan to offer except keep
coming for adjustments and do excercises. And it didn't help. I got
worse. Then finally my leg quit responding to my commands and I was
crippled from pain. Two and a half weeks after I saw a neurologist, I
had surgery and came out feeling better and have been better since.
That was six months ago and I spent a decade avoiding any doctor but a
chiro. Sorry, but my experience, not just my opinion, is a little
different.

I wish chiros and back surgeons would actually work together. Chiros
complain about the undeserved bad wrap they get from many doctors but
many chiros seem to have the same attitude toward doctors. It's the
patient that loses out.

Thanks, vinceL5disc

Sounds like you tried all the right things. Hopefully your website and
literature will endorse that, rather than just going for surgery.

And yes, anytime permenant never damage becomes an issue surgery is
necessary.

I work with a great neurologist who believes in the least invasive,
most effective and least costly approches first. 95% of those people
do not end up needing surgery.

D

No they used bone from a bone bank for the fusion. Modern fusions
aren't any different then they were 10 years ago, still a large scar,
but not stem to stern (about 6 inches)previous to that surgery I had a
simple microdiscectomy (probably what you had, where they just remove
the part of the disc thats pressing against your nerve and generally
clean up the area), that scar was less then an inch and done with a
small fiber optic lite instrument (arthroscopy, like they do on knees).
They been doing that "micro" back surgery for 20 years now. The
advantage of the microdiscectomy was a short stay and quick recovery,
the advantage of the fusion was that it actually worked. 🙂

The modern disc replacement surgery is even more invasive,they open you
up from the front and back, but generally people in constant pain
aren't overly concerned with how large the scar is, and if you are
worried about the scar, your probably not in enough pain to warrent the
surgery!