Sturmey Archer Three Speed Fun

Sirrus Rider said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly new
Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3; however,
middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking free and going
"neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions? Everthing is lubed as it
should be.

The AW system drives directly to the hubshell in 2d but has a foible in
that the clutch passes a 'neutral' space when lifted off the 3d gear
pins and before engaging the dogs of the planet cage in 2d. It's likely
a control system issue, not internal.

Inspect the gear wire for kinks, the casing for damage and oil the wire
at both ends so it moves freely. Then inspect the gear indicator chain
for damage and oil it. Replace damaged gear wire, casing, indicator as
needed.

Ensure any bolt-on cable fittings are tight and do not slide under
pressure. Oil the screws so they tighten properly.

The shifter cannot be fully tight on the handlebar as it will bind. Oil
inside the shifter.

If all external controls look good and move easily, check the bearing
adjustment. There should be a trace of play at the rim. Bearing
adjustment must be done on the left side. Oil the hub internally if you
haven't already.

Adjust such that the wire is slack in high and tight in low and you're
ready to ride!

Jobst notes that steady pedal pressure in high gear will cause the
clutch to climb up and over the tops of the pins. This is an inherent
'feature' of the design as the clutch and clutch carrier do not run
perpendicular and concentric to the axle in practice although it would
seem so in the drawings.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

John Lucci said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raleigh twenty with a nearly
new Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and
3; however, middle gear either engages for a millisecond before
breaking free and going "neutral" or just never engages. Any
suggestions? Everything is lubed as it should be.

These hubs are easy to disassemble and reassemble, the caps have right
hand threads and the right side one (that transmits drive torque) has
a double lead thread that easily unscrews. The left cap does not
transmit driving torque, so it is only as tight as the mechanic made
it originally. The caps have slots that lend themselves to being
unscrewed using a screw driver and hammer. The right one being the
main access. Some of these hubs had the left cup knurled and
permanently pressed into the housing because they don't need removal
for servicing the hub. I have never seen a special tool for doing
this but there probably was one somewhere.

I think you have a pair of broken pawl springs, there being two for
each gear setting. On the other hand, as I recall, the driver cross
pushed directly on two pawls requiring no springs. Are you sure the
shift cable isn't becoming slack in top gear. That would explain
there being no drive in second gear because the drive does not engage
the two pawls that it should. These pawls are the inside beveled ones
that are more angled than the low gear pawls.

While you're at it, check the driver cross (clutch) for wear
indentations. That will tell you whether this has any miles on it.
The driver cross bears on the four planet pins at their ends and
becomes indented by fretting wear in top gear because the axle flexes
with chain pull at each pedal stroke.

Top gear is also the one that, for the same reason, can disengage when
pedaling hard while standing. The stronger the shifting coil spring
the less probable popping out of gear becomes.

Take it apart and report back. There's nothing that can screw up in
the assembly. My son used to take a cleaned one of these apart and
reassemble it as a toy when he was in kindergarten.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

John Lucci said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raleigh twenty with a nearly
new Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and
3; however, middle gear either engages for a millisecond before
breaking free and going "neutral" or just never engages. Any
suggestions? Everything is lubed as it should be.

Quoted message said:

These hubs are easy to disassemble and reassemble, the caps have right
hand threads and the right side one (that transmits drive torque) has
a double lead thread that easily unscrews. The left cap does not
transmit driving torque, so it is only as tight as the mechanic made
it originally. The caps have slots that lend themselves to being
unscrewed using a screw driver and hammer. The right one being the
main access. Some of these hubs had the left cup knurled and
permanently pressed into the housing because they don't need removal
for servicing the hub. I have never seen a special tool for doing
this but there probably was one somewhere.

I think you have a pair of broken pawl springs, there being two for
each gear setting. On the other hand, as I recall, the driver cross
pushed directly on two pawls requiring no springs. Are you sure the
shift cable isn't becoming slack in top gear. That would explain
there being no drive in second gear because the drive does not engage
the two pawls that it should. These pawls are the inside beveled ones
that are more angled than the low gear pawls.

While you're at it, check the driver cross (clutch) for wear
indentations. That will tell you whether this has any miles on it.
The driver cross bears on the four planet pins at their ends and
becomes indented by fretting wear in top gear because the axle flexes
with chain pull at each pedal stroke.

Top gear is also the one that, for the same reason, can disengage when
pedaling hard while standing. The stronger the shifting coil spring
the less probable popping out of gear becomes.

Take it apart and report back. There's nothing that can screw up in
the assembly. My son used to take a cleaned one of these apart and
reassemble it as a toy when he was in kindergarten.

Both high gear and second drive through the same "high gear"
(right-side) pawls. Only in low gear is that set disengaged (being
pulled in by the clutch), the "low gear" (left-side) pawls driving when
in first.
Any pawl related failure then should display either in both second and
third gear (right) or in low gear only (left). The OP description says
high and low gears are fine so the problem's not pawl-related.

I bet you haven't been inside one of these for a while!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raleigh twenty with a
nearly new Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in
gear 1 and 3; however, middle gear either engages for a
millisecond before breaking free and going "neutral" or just never
engages. Any suggestions? Everything is lubed as it should be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These hubs are easy to disassemble and reassemble, the caps have
right hand threads and the right side one (that transmits drive
torque) has a double lead thread that easily unscrews. The left
cap does not transmit driving torque, so it is only as tight as the
mechanic made it originally. The caps have slots that lend
themselves to being unscrewed using a screw driver and hammer. The
right one being the main access. Some of these hubs had the left
cup knurled and permanently pressed into the housing because they
don't need removal for servicing the hub. I have never seen a
special tool for doing this but there probably was one somewhere.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you have a pair of broken pawl springs, there being two for
each gear setting. On the other hand, as I recall, the driver
cross pushed directly on two pawls requiring no springs. Are you
sure the shift cable isn't becoming slack in top gear. That would
explain there being no drive in second gear because the drive does
not engage the two pawls that it should. These pawls are the
inside beveled ones that are more angled than the low gear pawls.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While you're at it, check the driver cross (clutch) for wear
indentations. That will tell you whether this has any miles on it.
The driver cross bears on the four planet pins at their ends and
becomes indented by fretting wear in top gear because the axle
flexes with chain pull at each pedal stroke.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Top gear is also the one that, for the same reason, can disengage
when pedaling hard while standing. The stronger the shifting coil
spring the less probable popping out of gear becomes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Take it apart and report back. There's nothing that can screw up
in the assembly. My son used to take a cleaned one of these apart
and reassemble it as a toy when he was in kindergarten.

Quoted message said:

Both high gear and second drive through the same "high gear"
(right-side) pawls. Only in low gear is that set disengaged (being
pulled in by the clutch), the "low gear" (left-side) pawls driving
when in first.

Quoted message said:

Any pawl related failure then should display either in both second
and third gear (right) or in low gear only (left). The OP
description says high and low gears are fine so the problem's not
pawl-related.

Quoted message said:

I bet you haven't been inside one of these for a while!

About 30 years, but I still have a bunch of them including an SW,
aluminum shell models and an S5-speed with a aluminum shell with
sturdy 3mm thick flanges that Tom Ritchey made for my younger son.
The 5-speed uses the same housing and end covers as the AW.

Jobst Brandt

The little chain going in is called an "indicator" for good reason...

Besides Andy's suggestions, check the indicator itself. Put it into 2nd
and turn the pedals a few times. The "shoulders" of the pin should be
even with the end of the axle.

Sirrus Rider said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly new
Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3; however,
middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking free and going
"neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions? Everthing is lubed as it
should be.

[email hidden]

"richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The little chain going in is called an "indicator" for good reason...

Besides Andy's suggestions, check the indicator itself. Put it into 2nd
and turn the pedals a few times. The "shoulders" of the pin should be
even with the end of the axle.

Sirrus Rider said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly new
Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3;

however,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking free and

going

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions? Everthing is lubed

as it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should be.

[email hidden]

Loads of instructions/information here :-
http://www.toehead.plus.com/stmain.htm

--
Colin N.

Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face

Quoted message said:

Sirrus Rider said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly
new Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3;
however, middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking
free and going "neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions?
Everthing is lubed as it should be.

richard said:

The little chain going in is called an "indicator" for good reason...
Besides Andy's suggestions, check the indicator itself. Put it into 2nd
and turn the pedals a few times. The "shoulders" of the pin should be
even with the end of the axle.

That is Sturmey Archer's suggestion as well. I didn't mention it because
frequently the axle length and indicator length no longer match after
prior service. Aftermarket indicators are "universal", not matched to
axle length.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Sirrus Rider' sirrus- said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly new
Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3; however,
middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking free and going
"neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions? Everthing is lubed as it
should be.

I bet ya it's the cable tension. Put in 2nd and adjust so there is no
slack, but no tension either. Or use the indicator method, as already
mentioned.

Quoted message said:

Sirrus Rider' sirrus- said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly new
Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3; however,
middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking free and going
"neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions? Everthing is lubed as it
should be.

landotter said:

I bet ya it's the cable tension. Put in 2nd and adjust so there is no
slack, but no tension either. Or use the indicator method, as already
mentioned.

I agree it's likely a control problem, but perhaps you meant 'high gear'
(3d), not second.
Cable should be just loose, as you wrote, in high. Yet fully tight in
low. If you pull on the wire in low gear, the indicator should not move
out any farther.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Sirrus Rider' sirrus- said:

I have an interesting problem. I have a Raliegh twenty with a nearly new
Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. The hub engages fine in gear 1 and 3; however,
middle gear either engages for a millisecond before breaking free and going
"neutral" or just never engages. Any suggestions? Everthing is lubed as it
should be.

landotter said:

I bet ya it's the cable tension. Put in 2nd and adjust so there is no
slack, but no tension either. Or use the indicator method, as already
mentioned.

I agree it's likely a control problem, but perhaps you meant 'high gear'
(3d), not second.

Doh, yeah, the slackest setting. Brain got me on Nexus mixed with SA
for a sec. And I ride a SA hub daily. Shameful.