Stupid wheel building question

What's with the "Stupid wheel building question" intro? This is a straight forward valid question.

anonymous writes shyly:

Quoted message said:

How often can you re-lace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is mechanically
sound? This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.

As long as the lacing pattern is the same so that the spokes lie in the same dimples caused by the
previous lacing, there is no problem. However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place
the new rim next to the old, and transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious but it
produces the best results, besides guaranteeing a durable set of spokes, ones that have been stress
relieved and used for many miles. I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000
miles by that method.

Reusing spokes that have been removed from a hub is not good because detecting whether a spoke was
an inbound or outbound, left or right rear, is not easy, and mixing them invites spoke failures.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

[email hidden] proclaimed:

Quoted message said:

I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method.

That's a lot of miles. Is that what you meant to say?

Quoted message said:

I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method.

I'm guessing this assumes you are using either the same rim or a rim with a similar ERD (+/-
2mm maybe?) .

Quite amazing though.

I guess it's not a stupid question if you don't know the answer..........my apologies and I enjoy
your book and continue to build wheels with it's wisdom....

michael

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's with the "Stupid wheel building question" intro? This is a straight forward valid question.

anonymous writes shyly:

Quoted message said:

How often can you re-lace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is mechanically
sound? This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.

As long as the lacing pattern is the same so that the spokes lie in the same dimples caused by the
previous lacing, there is no problem. However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place
the new rim next to the old, and transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious but it
produces the best results, besides guaranteeing a durable set of spokes, ones that have been
stress relieved and used for many miles. I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than
200,000 miles by that method.

Reusing spokes that have been removed from a hub is not good because detecting whether a spoke was
an inbound or outbound, left or right rear, is not easy, and mixing them invites spoke failures.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

KBH said:

Quoted message said:

I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more
than 200,000 miles by that method.

Quoted message said:

I'm guessing this assumes you are using either the same rim or a rim with a similar ERD (+/- 2mm
maybe?) .

I'm guessing they're MA-2s. <g>

Art Harris

anonymous said:

Quoted message said:

I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method.

Quoted message said:

I'm guessing this assumes you are using either the same rim or a rim with a similar ERD (+/- 2mm
maybe?). Quite amazing though.

Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably. I'm
asked now and then why I don't scrap those old fashioned hubs and get something modern. I have a
certain attachment to these hubs and spokes. They were the ones on which I researched spoke
failures for my book.

Yes, I have a stash of MA-2 rims and it's sad that the are off the market.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

jobst brandt said:

Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably.

Heh. That reminds me of "my grandfather's axe", which has had its head replaced 3 times, and its
handle replaced 4 times.

--
Benjamin Lewis

How you look depends on where you go.

Jobst:

Let me say thanks for writing the best
wheel book out there.

I bought a copy in 1990 when I first
started out on the road.

Using the info in the book, I have
built many sets of very strong wheels!!!

Thanks again!!!

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As long as the lacing pattern is the same so that the

spokes lie in

Quoted message said:

the same dimples caused by the previous lacing, there is

no problem.

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is,

place the new

Quoted message said:

rim next to the old, and transfer spokes one at a time.

This is a bit

Quoted message said:

more tedious but it produces the best results, besides

guaranteeing a

Quoted message said:

durable set of spokes, ones that have been stress relieved

and used

Quoted message said:

for many miles. I have been riding the same hubs and

spokes for more

Quoted message said:

than 200,000 miles by that method.

That seems like a great method. With used spokes, you know they're well stress relieved. Now if we
could only get rim makers to quit changing their models around...

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably.

Heh. That reminds me of "my grandfather's axe", which has had its head replaced 3 times, and its
handle replaced 4 times.

Not quite; he's actually re-using the original hub and spokes. He says he's only replaced the rims,
nothing else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably.

Heh. That reminds me of "my grandfather's axe", which has had its head replaced 3 times, and its
handle replaced 4 times.

Not quite; he's actually re-using the original hub and spokes. He says he's only replaced the
rims, nothing else.

Yes, but it still reminded me of that old saw -- er, axe. :P

--
Benjamin Lewis

How you look depends on where you go.

mrbubl-<< How often can you relace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is
mechanically sound? This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.

Lots of times but lace in the same direction...each time..use spoke washers if the holes are
getting long..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
original location.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - businesscycles.combusinesscycles.comOpen ↗ John Dacey Business Cycles Miami,
Florida 305-273-4440
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now in our twentieth year. Our catalogue of track equipment: seventh
year online

"John Dacey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
original location.

I have. The trick is to get all the nipples to where they're about to come off the spokes, THEN
start moving them around. More helpful hints: just like tensioning, de-tensioning needs to be done
in small increments (1-2 turns/time) till there isn't any tension on the spokes. 2. Put the new
nipples on the spokes loosely till you get all of them on.

Mike

John Dacey said:

On Thu, 01 May 2003 17:50:39 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

Quoted message said:

Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
original location.

Keep in mind that that 20 mm is added to the much smaller lateral component, so the change in spoke
length is still small. I haven't done the math, but it must be less than 5 mm. If you loosen the
nipples first it's certainly doable, and indeed practical.

-as

John Dacey said:

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

Quoted message said:

Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
original location.

I don't understand what you are imagining. Unscrew one nipple at a time, move its spoke to new rim,
put a drop of oil in the nipple and screw it back on the spoke. If the nipple goes on tight, use a
new nipple, then repeat until all spokes are in the new rim. Then tighten and true the wheel.

Yes, that's the way I've done it many times on my own wheels and on others. However, I don't run a
bicycle repair shop.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Dacey said:

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

Quoted message said:

Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
original location.

I don't understand what you are imagining. Unscrew one nipple at a time, move its spoke to new
rim, put a drop of oil in the nipple and screw it back on the spoke. If the nipple goes on
tight, use a new nipple, then repeat until all spokes are in the new rim. Then tighten and true
the wheel.

Yes, that's the way I've done it many times on my own wheels and on others. However, I don't run a
bicycle repair shop.

Hardly "daunting drudgery." It is the perfect activity for T.V. time, or visiting in-laws. --
Jay Beattie.

Jobst Brandt wrote:

"However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious but it produces the best results, besides
guaranteeing a durable set of spokes, ones that have been stress relieved and used for many miles. I
have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method. "

Good idea! I'll have to try it next time I build a wheel. Which is rare, my wheels seem to last
longer than they have a right too. But then, I'm not a racer, and not very heavy.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

As jobst suggests, it ain't hard at all. Put the old wheel next to the new rim. and tape them both
together so they will not move. loosen all the niples on the old wheel. then, you can move spokes
one at the time in no time while you watch tv, listen to music, to car talk, or to your wife nagging
at you to clean the kitchen and to stop screwing with your bike. turn the nipples on the new rim the
same amount of turns per spoke, only a few turns. you don't want to get nipples tight while
transfering spokes. when you are done transfering spokes, the wheel will be pretty straight already.
Tighten the nipples the same amount for the front wheel, or proportianlly more on the drive side for
a rear wheel. you'll have perfect wheel in no time.

Andres

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

John Dacey said:

Quoted message said:

However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

Quoted message said:

Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
original location.

I don't understand what you are imagining. Unscrew one nipple at a time, move its spoke to new
rim, put a drop of oil in the nipple and screw it back on the spoke. If the nipple goes on
tight, use a new nipple, then repeat until all spokes are in the new rim. Then tighten and true
the wheel.

Yes, that's the way I've done it many times on my own wheels and on others. However, I don't run a
bicycle repair shop.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA