stuff about grains and how good they are

TC said:

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Here's the article:

The science of nutrition seems to take a step backwards for every two
steps it takes forward. When the study of vitamins was in its infancy,
researchers realized that white flour lacked the nutrients that nature
put into whole grains. <snip> Warnings against the use of white flour
went largely ignored.
Only in recent decades has Dr. Price been vindicated.

- Great, yeah, that's been known for a while. No surprise. Who Dr.
Price is though... whatever...

Even orthodox nutritionists now recognize that white flour is an empty
food, supplying calories for energy but none of the bodybuilding
materials that abound in the germ and the bran of whole grains.

-Again, it was obvious stuff.

We've take two important steps forward-but unfortunately another step
backward in that now whole grain and bran products are being promoted
as health foods without adequate appreciation of their dangers. These
show up not only as digestive problems, Crohn's disease and colitis,
but also as the mental disorders associated with celiac disease.

- Celiac, okay? Proof on the others?

One school of thought claims that both refined and whole grains should
be avoided, arguing that they were absent from the Paleolithic diet and
citing the obvious association of grains with celiac disease and
studies linking grain consumption with heart disease.

- Oh, a "school of thought". That's good proof.

But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In fact,
it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization
possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and comfortable
lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we
fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at
high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast
cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation.

- Translation: They strip them of the bran and germ to make gooey,
[censored] white flour. Yeah, we know.

Grains require careful preparation because they contain a number of
antinutrients that can cause serious health problems. Phytic acid, for
example, is an organic acid in which phosphorus is bound. It is mostly
found in the bran or outer hull of seeds. Untreated phytic acid can
combine with calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc in
the intestinal tract and block their absorption.

- Again, where's the proof?

This is why a diet high in improperly prepared whole grains may lead to
serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss. The modern misguided
practice of consuming large amounts of unprocessed bran often improves
colon transit time at first but may lead to irritable bowel syndrome
and, in the long term, many other adverse effects.

- Lot's of "mays", but again, no proof. Yeah, like anything else large
amounts are never good. But if you eat balanced and eat whole foods
you're alright.

Other antinutrients in whole grains include enzyme inhibitors which can
inhibit digestion and put stress on the pancreas; irritating tannins;
complex sugars which the body cannot break down; and gluten and related
hard-to-digest proteins which may cause allergies, digestive disorders
and even mental illness.

- Scary stuff. But where are the studies/quote to back this up?

Most of these antinutrients are part of the seed's system of
preservation-they prevent sprouting until the conditions are right.
Plants need moisture, warmth, time and slight acidity in order to
sprout. Proper preparation of grains is a kind and gentle process that
imitates the process that occurs in nature. It involves soaking for a
period in warm, acidulated water in the preparation of porridge, or
long, slow sour dough fermentation in the making of bread. Such
processes neutralize phytic acid and enzyme inhibitors. Vitamin content
increases, particularly B vitamins. Tannins, complex sugars, gluten and
other difficult-to-digest substances are partially broken down into
simpler components that are more readily available for absorption.

- "For a period". What's that 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? Not too
definative there.

Animals that nourish themselves on primarily on grain and other plant
matter have as many as four stomachs. Their intestines are longer, as
is the entire digestion transit time. Man, on the other hand, has but
one stomach and a much shorter intestine compared to herbivorous
animals. These features of his anatomy allow him to pass animal
products before they putrefy in the gut but make him less well adapted
to a diet high in grains-unless, of course, he prepares them
properly.

- "A diet high in grains"? How high? How 'bout when he eats a
balanced diet?

When grains are properly prepared through soaking, sprouting or sour
leavening, the friendly bacteria of the microscopic world do some of
our digesting for us in a container, just as these same lactobacilli do
their work in the first and second stomachs of the herbivores.

- I'd like to see a _credible_ study from a _credible source_ that
shows we're not able to absorb the nutrients from grains? Especially
since they've been a part of our diet since we started walking the
planet.

So the well-meaning advice of many nutritionists, to consume whole
grains as our ancestors did and not refined flours and polished rice,
can be misleading and harmful in its consequences;

- Translation: We're now back pedaling to just *don't eat white flour
and white rice*. Well, no kidding. That hasn't been news for decades
and decades.

for while our ancestors ate whole grains, they did not consume them as
presented in our modern cookbooks in the form of quick-rise breads,
granolas, bran preparations and other hastily prepared casseroles and
concoctions. Our ancestors, and virtually all pre-industrialized
peoples, soaked or fermented their grains before making them into
porridge, breads, cakes and casseroles. A quick review of grain recipes
from around the world will prove our point: In India, rice and lentils
are fermented for at least two days before they are prepared as idli
and dosas; in Africa the natives soak coarsely ground corn overnight
before adding it to soups and stews and they ferment corn or millet for
several days to produce a sour porridge called ogi; a similar dish made
from oats was traditional among the Welsh; in some Oriental and Latin
American countries rice receives a long fermentation before it is
prepared; Ethiopians make their distinctive injera bread by fermenting
a grain called teff for several days; Mexican corn cakes, called pozol,
are fermented for several days and for as long as two weeks in banana
leaves; before the introduction of commercial brewers yeast, Europeans
made slow-rise breads from fermented starters; in America the pioneers
were famous for their sourdough breads, pancakes and biscuits; and
throughout Europe grains were soaked overnight, and for as long as
several days, in water or soured milk before they were cooked and
served as porridge or gruel. (Many of our senior citizens may remember
that in earlier times the instructions on the oatmeal box called for an
overnight soaking.)

- Translation: Grains can be hard. Liquids soften grains making them
easier to eat. Kinda like cooking makes meat easier to eat.

Bread can be the staff of life, but modern technology has turned our
bread-even our whole grain bread-into a poison. Grains are laced
with pesticides during the growing season and in storage;

- Same can be said of vegtables, fruits, nuts and seeds. And even
cattle and fish.

they are milled at high temperatures so that their fatty acids turn
rancid.

- Huh? They do it to turn them rancid?

Rancidity increases when milled flours are stored for long periods of
time, particularly in open bins. The bran and germ are often removed
and sold separately, when Mother Nature intended that they be eaten
together with the carbohydrate portion; they're baked as quick rise
breads so that antinutrients remain; synthetic vitamins and an
unabsorbable form of iron added to white flour can cause numerous
imbalances; dough conditioners, stabilizers, preservatives and other
additives add insult to injury.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah... we know... "enriched" flours are [censored].

Cruelty to grains in the making of breakfast cereals is intense.
Slurries of grain are forced through tiny holes at high temperatures
and pressures in giant extruders, a process that destroys nutrients and
turns the proteins in grains into veritable poisons. Westerners pay a
lot for expensive breakfast cereals that snap, crackle and pop,
including the rising toll of poor health.

- Again, they're talking about crappy "enriched" flour.

The final indignity to grains is that we treat them as loners, largely
ignorant of other dietary factors needed for the nutrients they
provide. Fat-soluble vitamins A and D found in animal fats like butter,
lard and cream help us absorb calcium, phosphorus, iron, B vitamins and
the many other vitamins that grains provide.

- Don't _need_ animals fats. "A" can also be provided by eatting
brocolli or a sweet potato. "D" by sun exposure.

Porridge eaten with cream will do us a thousand times more good than
cold breakfast cereal consumed with skim milk; sourdough whole grain
bread with butter or whole cheese is a combination that contributes to
optimal health.

- Again, no proof. Animal fats are not needed. You wanna eat some
cheese, sure go ahead. And a little ice cream once in a while is okay.
Small amounts of animal fats are okay, but they're too easy to get
for you to _try_ to include them. Because most meat these days are
"farm animals" loaded with fat. Natural "game animals", the ones that
run around all day, are natually lean, so maybe that's an indication we
should limit animal fat in our diets. Just a thought...

Be kind to your grains. . . and your grains will deliver their promise
as the staff of life. Buy only organic whole grains and soak them
overnight to make porridge or casseroles; or grind them into flour with
a home grinder and make your own sour dough bread and baked goods.

- 'Grind them into flour and make whole grain baked goods.' Hmm...
good idea.

For those who lack the time for breadmaking, kindly-made whole grain
breads are now available. Look for organic, stone ground, sprouted or
sour dough whole grain breads and enjoy them with butter or cheese.

- That or anything else you want to enjoy whole grain breads with...

Patrick

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TC said:

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Here's the article:

The science of nutrition seems to take a step backwards for every two
steps it takes forward. When the study of vitamins was in its infancy,
researchers realized that white flour lacked the nutrients that nature
put into whole grains. <snip> Warnings against the use of white flour
went largely ignored.
Only in recent decades has Dr. Price been vindicated.

- Great, yeah, that's been known for a while. No surprise. Who Dr.
Price is though... whatever...

You're an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Even orthodox nutritionists now recognize that white flour is an empty
food, supplying calories for energy but none of the bodybuilding
materials that abound in the germ and the bran of whole grains.

-Again, it was obvious stuff.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

We've take two important steps forward-but unfortunately another step
backward in that now whole grain and bran products are being promoted
as health foods without adequate appreciation of their dangers. These
show up not only as digestive problems, Crohn's disease and colitis,
but also as the mental disorders associated with celiac disease.

- Celiac, okay? Proof on the others?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

One school of thought claims that both refined and whole grains should
be avoided, arguing that they were absent from the Paleolithic diet and
citing the obvious association of grains with celiac disease and
studies linking grain consumption with heart disease.

- Oh, a "school of thought". That's good proof.

You're more of an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In fact,
it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization
possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and comfortable
lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we
fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at
high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast
cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation.

- Translation: They strip them of the bran and germ to make gooey,
[censored] white flour. Yeah, we know.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Grains require careful preparation because they contain a number of
antinutrients that can cause serious health problems. Phytic acid, for
example, is an organic acid in which phosphorus is bound. It is mostly
found in the bran or outer hull of seeds. Untreated phytic acid can
combine with calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc in
the intestinal tract and block their absorption.

- Again, where's the proof?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

This is why a diet high in improperly prepared whole grains may lead to
serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss. The modern misguided
practice of consuming large amounts of unprocessed bran often improves
colon transit time at first but may lead to irritable bowel syndrome
and, in the long term, many other adverse effects.

- Lot's of "mays", but again, no proof. Yeah, like anything else large
amounts are never good. But if you eat balanced and eat whole foods
you're alright.

You're still a complete idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Other antinutrients in whole grains include enzyme inhibitors which can
inhibit digestion and put stress on the pancreas; irritating tannins;
complex sugars which the body cannot break down; and gluten and related
hard-to-digest proteins which may cause allergies, digestive disorders
and even mental illness.

- Scary stuff. But where are the studies/quote to back this up?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Most of these antinutrients are part of the seed's system of
preservation-they prevent sprouting until the conditions are right.
Plants need moisture, warmth, time and slight acidity in order to
sprout. Proper preparation of grains is a kind and gentle process that
imitates the process that occurs in nature. It involves soaking for a
period in warm, acidulated water in the preparation of porridge, or
long, slow sour dough fermentation in the making of bread. Such
processes neutralize phytic acid and enzyme inhibitors. Vitamin content
increases, particularly B vitamins. Tannins, complex sugars, gluten and
other difficult-to-digest substances are partially broken down into
simpler components that are more readily available for absorption.

- "For a period". What's that 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? Not too
definative there.

You're still a potshot idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Animals that nourish themselves on primarily on grain and other plant
matter have as many as four stomachs. Their intestines are longer, as
is the entire digestion transit time. Man, on the other hand, has but
one stomach and a much shorter intestine compared to herbivorous
animals. These features of his anatomy allow him to pass animal
products before they putrefy in the gut but make him less well adapted
to a diet high in grains-unless, of course, he prepares them
properly.

- "A diet high in grains"? How high? How 'bout when he eats a
balanced diet?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

When grains are properly prepared through soaking, sprouting or sour
leavening, the friendly bacteria of the microscopic world do some of
our digesting for us in a container, just as these same lactobacilli do
their work in the first and second stomachs of the herbivores.

- I'd like to see a _credible_ study from a _credible source_ that
shows we're not able to absorb the nutrients from grains? Especially
since they've been a part of our diet since we started walking the
planet.

Now everbody knows your still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

So the well-meaning advice of many nutritionists, to consume whole
grains as our ancestors did and not refined flours and polished rice,
can be misleading and harmful in its consequences;

- Translation: We're now back pedaling to just *don't eat white flour
and white rice*. Well, no kidding. That hasn't been news for decades
and decades.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

for while our ancestors ate whole grains, they did not consume them as
presented in our modern cookbooks in the form of quick-rise breads,
granolas, bran preparations and other hastily prepared casseroles and
concoctions. Our ancestors, and virtually all pre-industrialized
peoples, soaked or fermented their grains before making them into
porridge, breads, cakes and casseroles. A quick review of grain recipes
from around the world will prove our point: In India, rice and lentils
are fermented for at least two days before they are prepared as idli
and dosas; in Africa the natives soak coarsely ground corn overnight
before adding it to soups and stews and they ferment corn or millet for
several days to produce a sour porridge called ogi; a similar dish made
from oats was traditional among the Welsh; in some Oriental and Latin
American countries rice receives a long fermentation before it is
prepared; Ethiopians make their distinctive injera bread by fermenting
a grain called teff for several days; Mexican corn cakes, called pozol,
are fermented for several days and for as long as two weeks in banana
leaves; before the introduction of commercial brewers yeast, Europeans
made slow-rise breads from fermented starters; in America the pioneers
were famous for their sourdough breads, pancakes and biscuits; and
throughout Europe grains were soaked overnight, and for as long as
several days, in water or soured milk before they were cooked and
served as porridge or gruel. (Many of our senior citizens may remember
that in earlier times the instructions on the oatmeal box called for an
overnight soaking.)

- Translation: Grains can be hard. Liquids soften grains making them
easier to eat. Kinda like cooking makes meat easier to eat.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Bread can be the staff of life, but modern technology has turned our
bread-even our whole grain bread-into a poison. Grains are laced
with pesticides during the growing season and in storage;

- Same can be said of vegtables, fruits, nuts and seeds. And even
cattle and fish.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

they are milled at high temperatures so that their fatty acids turn
rancid.

- Huh? They do it to turn them rancid?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Rancidity increases when milled flours are stored for long periods of
time, particularly in open bins. The bran and germ are often removed
and sold separately, when Mother Nature intended that they be eaten
together with the carbohydrate portion; they're baked as quick rise
breads so that antinutrients remain; synthetic vitamins and an
unabsorbable form of iron added to white flour can cause numerous
imbalances; dough conditioners, stabilizers, preservatives and other
additives add insult to injury.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah... we know... "enriched" flours are [censored].

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Cruelty to grains in the making of breakfast cereals is intense.
Slurries of grain are forced through tiny holes at high temperatures
and pressures in giant extruders, a process that destroys nutrients and
turns the proteins in grains into veritable poisons. Westerners pay a
lot for expensive breakfast cereals that snap, crackle and pop,
including the rising toll of poor health.

- Again, they're talking about crappy "enriched" flour.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

The final indignity to grains is that we treat them as loners, largely
ignorant of other dietary factors needed for the nutrients they
provide. Fat-soluble vitamins A and D found in animal fats like butter,
lard and cream help us absorb calcium, phosphorus, iron, B vitamins and
the many other vitamins that grains provide.

- Don't _need_ animals fats. "A" can also be provided by eatting
brocolli or a sweet potato. "D" by sun exposure.

You're still an idiot with [censored] to say

Quoted message said:

Porridge eaten with cream will do us a thousand times more good than
cold breakfast cereal consumed with skim milk; sourdough whole grain
bread with butter or whole cheese is a combination that contributes to
optimal health.

- Again, no proof. Animal fats are not needed. You wanna eat some
cheese, sure go ahead. And a little ice cream once in a while is okay.
Small amounts of animal fats are okay, but they're too easy to get
for you to _try_ to include them. Because most meat these days are
"farm animals" loaded with fat. Natural "game animals", the ones that
run around all day, are natually lean, so maybe that's an indication we
should limit animal fat in our diets. Just a thought...

Be kind to your grains. . . and your grains will deliver their promise
as the staff of life. Buy only organic whole grains and soak them
overnight to make porridge or casseroles; or grind them into flour with
a home grinder and make your own sour dough bread and baked goods.

- 'Grind them into flour and make whole grain baked goods.' Hmm...
good idea.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

For those who lack the time for breadmaking, kindly-made whole grain
breads are now available. Look for organic, stone ground, sprouted or
sour dough whole grain breads and enjoy them with butter or cheese.

- That or anything else you want to enjoy whole grain breads with...

Totally nothing to say period.

Quoted message said:

Patrick (nothing)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:09:55 -0500, "Piezo Guru" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You're an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're more of an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still a complete idiot with nothing to say

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still a potshot idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Now everbody knows your still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with [censored] to say

Quoted message said:

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Totally nothing to say period.

Quoted message said:

Very informative thanks

BWHAHAHAHA!

Well, that was a constructive response. In the absence of any good
counter argument you attack the poster.

Maybe that illustrates how little science there is to support human
consumption of grains.

TC

Piezo Guru said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TC said:

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Here's the article:

The science of nutrition seems to take a step backwards for every

two

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

steps it takes forward. When the study of vitamins was in its

infancy,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

researchers realized that white flour lacked the nutrients that

nature

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

put into whole grains. <snip> Warnings against the use of white

flour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

went largely ignored.
Only in recent decades has Dr. Price been vindicated.

- Great, yeah, that's been known for a while. No surprise. Who

Dr.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Price is though... whatever...

You're an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Even orthodox nutritionists now recognize that white flour is an

empty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

food, supplying calories for energy but none of the bodybuilding
materials that abound in the germ and the bran of whole grains.

-Again, it was obvious stuff.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

We've take two important steps forward-but unfortunately another

step

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

backward in that now whole grain and bran products are being

promoted

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as health foods without adequate appreciation of their dangers.

These

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

show up not only as digestive problems, Crohn's disease and

colitis,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but also as the mental disorders associated with celiac disease.

- Celiac, okay? Proof on the others?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

One school of thought claims that both refined and whole grains

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be avoided, arguing that they were absent from the Paleolithic diet

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

citing the obvious association of grains with celiac disease and
studies linking grain consumption with heart disease.

- Oh, a "school of thought". That's good proof.

You're more of an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In

fact,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization
possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and

comfortable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we
fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill

them at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast
cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation.

- Translation: They strip them of the bran and germ to make gooey,
[censored] white flour. Yeah, we know.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Grains require careful preparation because they contain a number of
antinutrients that can cause serious health problems. Phytic acid,

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

example, is an organic acid in which phosphorus is bound. It is

mostly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

found in the bran or outer hull of seeds. Untreated phytic acid can
combine with calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the intestinal tract and block their absorption.

- Again, where's the proof?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

This is why a diet high in improperly prepared whole grains may

lead to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss. The modern misguided
practice of consuming large amounts of unprocessed bran often

improves

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

colon transit time at first but may lead to irritable bowel

syndrome

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and, in the long term, many other adverse effects.

- Lot's of "mays", but again, no proof. Yeah, like anything else

large

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

amounts are never good. But if you eat balanced and eat whole

foods

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you're alright.

You're still a complete idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Other antinutrients in whole grains include enzyme inhibitors which

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

inhibit digestion and put stress on the pancreas; irritating

tannins;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

complex sugars which the body cannot break down; and gluten and

related

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard-to-digest proteins which may cause allergies, digestive

disorders

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and even mental illness.

- Scary stuff. But where are the studies/quote to back this up?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Most of these antinutrients are part of the seed's system of
preservation-they prevent sprouting until the conditions are right.
Plants need moisture, warmth, time and slight acidity in order to
sprout. Proper preparation of grains is a kind and gentle process

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

imitates the process that occurs in nature. It involves soaking for

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

period in warm, acidulated water in the preparation of porridge, or
long, slow sour dough fermentation in the making of bread. Such
processes neutralize phytic acid and enzyme inhibitors. Vitamin

content

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

increases, particularly B vitamins. Tannins, complex sugars, gluten

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other difficult-to-digest substances are partially broken down into
simpler components that are more readily available for absorption.

- "For a period". What's that 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? Not too
definative there.

You're still a potshot idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

Animals that nourish themselves on primarily on grain and other

plant

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

matter have as many as four stomachs. Their intestines are longer,

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is the entire digestion transit time. Man, on the other hand, has

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one stomach and a much shorter intestine compared to herbivorous
animals. These features of his anatomy allow him to pass animal
products before they putrefy in the gut but make him less well

adapted

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to a diet high in grains-unless, of course, he prepares them
properly.

- "A diet high in grains"? How high? How 'bout when he eats a
balanced diet?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

Quoted message said:

When grains are properly prepared through soaking, sprouting or

sour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leavening, the friendly bacteria of the microscopic world do some

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

our digesting for us in a container, just as these same

lactobacilli do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their work in the first and second stomachs of the herbivores.

- I'd like to see a _credible_ study from a _credible source_ that
shows we're not able to absorb the nutrients from grains?

Especially

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since they've been a part of our diet since we started walking the
planet.

Now everbody knows your still an idiot with nothing to say

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So the well-meaning advice of many nutritionists, to consume whole
grains as our ancestors did and not refined flours and polished

rice,

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can be misleading and harmful in its consequences;

- Translation: We're now back pedaling to just *don't eat white

flour

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and white rice*. Well, no kidding. That hasn't been news for

decades

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and decades.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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for while our ancestors ate whole grains, they did not consume them

as

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presented in our modern cookbooks in the form of quick-rise breads,
granolas, bran preparations and other hastily prepared casseroles

and

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concoctions. Our ancestors, and virtually all pre-industrialized
peoples, soaked or fermented their grains before making them into
porridge, breads, cakes and casseroles. A quick review of grain

recipes

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from around the world will prove our point: In India, rice and

lentils

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are fermented for at least two days before they are prepared as

idli

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and dosas; in Africa the natives soak coarsely ground corn

overnight

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before adding it to soups and stews and they ferment corn or millet

for

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several days to produce a sour porridge called ogi; a similar dish

made

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from oats was traditional among the Welsh; in some Oriental and

Latin

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American countries rice receives a long fermentation before it is
prepared; Ethiopians make their distinctive injera bread by

fermenting

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a grain called teff for several days; Mexican corn cakes, called

pozol,

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are fermented for several days and for as long as two weeks in

banana

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leaves; before the introduction of commercial brewers yeast,

Europeans

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made slow-rise breads from fermented starters; in America the

pioneers

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were famous for their sourdough breads, pancakes and biscuits; and
throughout Europe grains were soaked overnight, and for as long as
several days, in water or soured milk before they were cooked and
served as porridge or gruel. (Many of our senior citizens may

remember

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that in earlier times the instructions on the oatmeal box called

for an

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overnight soaking.)

- Translation: Grains can be hard. Liquids soften grains making

them

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easier to eat. Kinda like cooking makes meat easier to eat.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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Bread can be the staff of life, but modern technology has turned

our

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bread-even our whole grain bread-into a poison. Grains are laced
with pesticides during the growing season and in storage;

- Same can be said of vegtables, fruits, nuts and seeds. And even
cattle and fish.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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they are milled at high temperatures so that their fatty acids turn
rancid.

- Huh? They do it to turn them rancid?

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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Rancidity increases when milled flours are stored for long periods

of

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time, particularly in open bins. The bran and germ are often

removed

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and sold separately, when Mother Nature intended that they be eaten
together with the carbohydrate portion; they're baked as quick rise
breads so that antinutrients remain; synthetic vitamins and an
unabsorbable form of iron added to white flour can cause numerous
imbalances; dough conditioners, stabilizers, preservatives and

other

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additives add insult to injury.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah... we know... "enriched" flours are [censored].

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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Cruelty to grains in the making of breakfast cereals is intense.
Slurries of grain are forced through tiny holes at high

temperatures

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and pressures in giant extruders, a process that destroys nutrients

and

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turns the proteins in grains into veritable poisons. Westerners pay

a

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lot for expensive breakfast cereals that snap, crackle and pop,
including the rising toll of poor health.

- Again, they're talking about crappy "enriched" flour.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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The final indignity to grains is that we treat them as loners,

largely

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ignorant of other dietary factors needed for the nutrients they
provide. Fat-soluble vitamins A and D found in animal fats like

butter,

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lard and cream help us absorb calcium, phosphorus, iron, B vitamins

and

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the many other vitamins that grains provide.

- Don't _need_ animals fats. "A" can also be provided by eatting
brocolli or a sweet potato. "D" by sun exposure.

You're still an idiot with [censored] to say

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Porridge eaten with cream will do us a thousand times more good

than

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cold breakfast cereal consumed with skim milk; sourdough whole

grain

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bread with butter or whole cheese is a combination that contributes

to

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optimal health.

- Again, no proof. Animal fats are not needed. You wanna eat some
cheese, sure go ahead. And a little ice cream once in a while is

okay.

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Small amounts of animal fats are okay, but they're too easy to

get

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for you to _try_ to include them. Because most meat these days are
"farm animals" loaded with fat. Natural "game animals", the ones

that

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run around all day, are natually lean, so maybe that's an

indication we

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should limit animal fat in our diets. Just a thought...

Be kind to your grains. . . and your grains will deliver their

promise

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as the staff of life. Buy only organic whole grains and soak them
overnight to make porridge or casseroles; or grind them into flour

with

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a home grinder and make your own sour dough bread and baked goods.

- 'Grind them into flour and make whole grain baked goods.' Hmm...
good idea.

You're still an idiot with nothing to say

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For those who lack the time for breadmaking, kindly-made whole

grain

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breads are now available. Look for organic, stone ground, sprouted

or

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sour dough whole grain breads and enjoy them with butter or cheese.

- That or anything else you want to enjoy whole grain breads

with...

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Totally nothing to say period.

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Patrick (nothing)

Piezo Guru said:

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http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

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Here's the article:

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The science of nutrition seems to take a step backwards for every

two

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steps it takes forward. When the study of vitamins was in its

infancy,

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researchers realized that white flour lacked the nutrients that

nature

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put into whole grains. <snip> Warnings against the use of white

flour

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went largely ignored.
Only in recent decades has Dr. Price been vindicated.

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- Great, yeah, that's been known for a while. No surprise. Who

Dr.

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Price is though... whatever...

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You're an idiot with nothing to say.

You know... you spew out a lot of tough talk. Instead, why don't you
post some credentials. Do you have any schooling behind your mouth?
And with your vast nutritional knowledge, wouldn't it be safe to assume
you're probably in pretty decent shape? How about posting some
numbers? Height, weight, and waist size. Or some fitness strength or
speed numbers? Let's compare, shall we? You want me to go first, or
are you confident enough in your stats?

Patrick