Study Casts Doubt on Homeopathy

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In short, don't bother cause it don't work:

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1558/

All I had to do was read the first paragraph, and that was enough:

"The clinical benefits of homeopathy are little more than a form of the
placebo effect, a new study contends."

I use classical homeopathy on my dogs and it works. I do not believe
placebo effect is a concern when animals are involved.

But then, if it is a placebo effect, so be it. Whatever works. Homeopathy
is very inexpensive and causes no harm. Better than getting the placebo
effect while taking a powerful drug with many side effects.

René

"I use classical homeopathy on my dogs and it works. I do not believe
placebo effect is a concern when animals are involved."

One of the things that seems to make it work, as mentioned in the article,
is
that most disorders they are used for are self limiting. Take a cure
for a cold and it will go away, or for a headache, or stomach upset
and so forth.

"But then, if it is a placebo effect, so be it. Whatever works.
Homeopathy is very inexpensive and causes no harm. Better than
getting the placebo effect while taking a powerful drug with many side
effects."

Then buy some sugar pills, the traditional placebo pill and save eeven
more. The danger in using this is that in serious diseases trajic
outcomes sometimes result when people put faith in not using
conventional medicine.

"They're to powerful to be placebos. I ried one for sleep. Those herbs
work. I can vouch for it.You can't take what I know from me!!!"

This is the perfect situation where the placebo effect works, believing
something will happen. When testing such a thing some are given sugar
pills and others the "real" thing and both don't know which it is. If
both have the same result in sleeping aid then we know the "real" thing
has no effect over the sugar pill and the prior suggestion that it will
work, and it does. While I accept what your experience is, we still don't
know if it does work differently then as above. Even if we put 100 such
reports together we cann't confirm that it is not as above withouting
doing the test.

They're to powerful to be placebos.
I ried one for sleep. Those herbs work.
I can vouch for it.You can't take
what I know from me!!!

Baloney. I set out with no expectations. As I do with everything.
I never "believed" they would do anything.
So a placebo effect keeps from waking up 5 times a night?

I don't think so.

Rene said:

Hmeopathy is very inexpensive and causes no harm.

Of course it causes no harm. It's just water, after all!

Quoted message said:

"I use classical homeopathy on my dogs and it works. I do not believe
placebo effect is a concern when animals are involved."

One of the things that seems to make it work, as mentioned in the article,
is
that most disorders they are used for are self limiting. Take a cure
for a cold and it will go away, or for a headache, or stomach upset
and so forth.

So the majority of pills and potions pushed by physicians as
prescriptions or found over-the-counter are mostly potentially toxic
and generally overpriced and mostly not worth the money because the
condition will go away on its own?

"So the majority of pills and potions pushed by physicians as
prescriptions or found over-the-counter are mostly potentially toxic
and generally overpriced and mostly not worth the money because the
condition will go away on its own?"

My reply was to why it might seem using them might appear to be
effective in pets. As to humans, sometimes yes. The classic case of
using antibiotics as a "feel good" response to a virus such as colds.
But otherwise no. While most homopathetic "drugs" are harmless as
well as useless except as placebos, some "alternative" drugs are quite
as you describe while others fall into the expensive but harmless and
useless category also. One difference in fda drugs is they must
demonstrate being effective and to have a minimal acceptable level of
side effects, which assurance is a pig in a poke with the alternative
drugs.

"Baloney. I set out with no expectations. As I do with everything. I never
"believed" they would do anything. So a placebo effect keeps from waking
up 5 times a night?

I don't think so."

Everything you describe falls into the classic explanation of the placebo
effect. The only way to resolve the question is to test the substance in
question as were all those substances mentioned in the article. If all of
them failed to be better then placebo then why should we think this
individual one is an exception? The key in the failure of all of them was
the people didn't know which they were using, prior knowledge is the key
here and the reason utmost effort is made in scientific research using
humans to remove prior knowledge from those involved, including the
researchers themselves. It is too well demonstrated that not doing so
pollutes results majing them worthless. When homopathic "drugs" use the
same approach they fail, as the article demonstrated.

Rene said:

I use classical homeopathy on my dogs and it works. I do not believe
placebo effect is a concern when animals are involved.

COMMENT:

If the affect is assessed by a non-blinded owner, then it certainly is.
The placebo "effect" doesn't just "affect" the subject. It affects
everybody involved who *thinks* some effective remedy has been
employed. If YOU feel better about the medical care (or even about
something else entirely), you will rate your dog as feeling better.
Even if the dog doesn't (and an independent rater would say the dog
doesn't). Ask any vet how many basically healthy animals he or she has
seen, brought in by depressed or anxious or stressed-out owners. Ask
the same question of any pediatricion. LOL.

Come on--- do you want me to quote you those studies in which they
randomly picked out kids and labeled them as being gifted or mildly
developmentally delayed, and put them in classes where only the teacher
was aware of the IQ test "score"? Guess what? The kids' scores
amazingly rose or fell according to what they were supposed to be
capable of, even though the kids were totally unaware of their
"labels." That's a variety of placebo effect. The general form of is:
we see what we expect to see. Yes, it happens with what we see in our
pets too.

SBH

Thank God for placebos because they are free of adverse side effects. I will
continue to purchase my "placebo" homeopathic and other natural remedies,
and continue in optimal health. I purchase some supplements from the Life
Extension Foundation. Not all of these supplements have been approved in
peer reviewed journals, but some studies indicate the efficaciousness of
these items.

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rene said:

I use classical homeopathy on my dogs and it works. I do not believe
placebo effect is a concern when animals are involved.

COMMENT:

If the affect is assessed by a non-blinded owner, then it certainly is.
The placebo "effect" doesn't just "affect" the subject. It affects
everybody involved who *thinks* some effective remedy has been
employed. If YOU feel better about the medical care (or even about
something else entirely), you will rate your dog as feeling better.
Even if the dog doesn't (and an independent rater would say the dog
doesn't). Ask any vet how many basically healthy animals he or she has
seen, brought in by depressed or anxious or stressed-out owners. Ask
the same question of any pediatricion. LOL.

Come on--- do you want me to quote you those studies in which they
randomly picked out kids and labeled them as being gifted or mildly
developmentally delayed, and put them in classes where only the teacher
was aware of the IQ test "score"? Guess what? The kids' scores
amazingly rose or fell according to what they were supposed to be
capable of, even though the kids were totally unaware of their
"labels." That's a variety of placebo effect. The general form of is:
we see what we expect to see. Yes, it happens with what we see in our
pets too.

SBH

C.Health said:

Thank God for placebos because they are free of adverse side effects. I will
continue to purchase my "placebo" homeopathic and other natural remedies,
and continue in optimal health. I purchase some supplements from the Life
Extension Foundation. Not all of these supplements have been approved in
peer reviewed journals, but some studies indicate the efficaciousness of
these items.

COMMENT:

Good for you, but remember you get the placebo effect just as
powerfully from the supplements as from the water, and maybe some real
chemical effect from the supplements, too. So quit wasting your money
on water! Spend it on stuff you get a 2-fer effect from.

SBH

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:48:08 GMT, "C.Health" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thank God for placebos because they are free of adverse side effects. I will
continue to purchase my "placebo" homeopathic and other natural remedies,
and continue in optimal health. I purchase some supplements from the Life
Extension Foundation. Not all of these supplements have been approved in
peer reviewed journals, but some studies indicate the efficaciousness of
these items.

The supplements that LEF sells, unlike homeopathic stuff, aren't just
made of water. That is a big difference, I'd suggest, unless your
problem is thirst.

"Thank God for placebos because they are free of adverse side effects.
I will continue to purchase my "placebo" homeopathic and other natural
remedies, and continue in optimal health. I purchase some supplements
from the Life Extension Foundation. Not all of these supplements have
been approved in peer reviewed journals, but some studies indicate the
efficaciousness of these items."

Your local pharmacy has the least expensive placebos of all, sugar
pills. You start with homopathetic and proceed to lump other things
into the mix as though the latter is salvation for the former. Every
virtue your supplements are said to demonstrate as to testing is
lacking in the former. Drugs are not approved in journals, only
research said to show some attribute of them is presented. When the
same criteria was applied to homopathetic "drugs", as in the article
starting this thread, they could not be shown to have any effect at
all. Would you enjoy "optimum" health if you consumed none of the
above? At present your answer must be by definition based in faith that
it is so.

I don't use liquid based homeopathic remedies. You have to research the
ingredients put in the tablets so that you don't make an unfortunate
ignorant comment. I'm not saying you're stupid. You just need to know what
you're talking about.

"Just Cocky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:48:08 GMT, "C.Health" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thank God for placebos because they are free of adverse side effects. I

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

continue to purchase my "placebo" homeopathic and other natural remedies,
and continue in optimal health. I purchase some supplements from the Life
Extension Foundation. Not all of these supplements have been approved in
peer reviewed journals, but some studies indicate the efficaciousness of
these items.

The supplements that LEF sells, unlike homeopathic stuff, aren't just
made of water. That is a big difference, I'd suggest, unless your
problem is thirst.

C.Health said:

I don't use liquid based homeopathic remedies. You have to research the
ingredients put in the tablets so that you don't make an unfortunate
ignorant comment. I'm not saying you're stupid. You just need to know what
you're talking about.

COMMENT:

You don't use "liquid-based" homeopathic remedies?? Succussion is a
"principal principle" of homeopathic theory. As for the ingredients in
the tablets, in standard chemical theory it hardly matters what they
are if they're too dilute to have any effect. And in homeopathic
theory, somwhere along the way you need water.

SBH

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:26:22 GMT, "C.Health" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Just Cocky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:48:08 GMT, "C.Health" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thank God for placebos because they are free of adverse side effects. I

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

continue to purchase my "placebo" homeopathic and other natural remedies,
and continue in optimal health. I purchase some supplements from the Life
Extension Foundation. Not all of these supplements have been approved in
peer reviewed journals, but some studies indicate the efficaciousness of
these items.

The supplements that LEF sells, unlike homeopathic stuff, aren't just
made of water. That is a big difference, I'd suggest, unless your
problem is thirst.

I don't use liquid based homeopathic remedies. You have to research the
ingredients put in the tablets so that you don't make an unfortunate
ignorant comment. I'm not saying you're stupid. You just need to know what
you're talking about.

Would you be kind enough to show me (URL) an example of a homeopathic
remedy?

"The homeopathic I use exceeds the statistical results that you might
expect from a placebo!

I don't care what you say. Herbs work."

"Herbs" is not homopathetic persey, don't confuse the two. I would
be happy to review the web based information on which you base the
above claim.

Baloney. You have to expect a result from a
placebo for it to work.

I didn't.

The homeopathic I use exceeds the statistical
results that you might expect from a placebo!

I don't care what you say. Herbs work.