General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Studies show ginseng helps diabetics

Started by Dave · · Last activity · 21 posts · 640 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
29 September 2003
Last activity
6 October 2003
Original author
Dave
Posts
21
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
640
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 21
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Ginseng Helps in Controlling Blood Glucose

    American and Korean red ginseng may help to normalize blood glucose levels
    and improve insulin secretion and sensitivity in patients with type 2
    diabetes.

    Two studies were presented at the American Diabetes Association 63rd
    Scientific Sessions.
    In one study, people with type 2 diabetes who consumed ginseng and Konjac
    mannan fiber ( a highly viscous fiber similar to pectin) had a notable
    reduction in blood glucose levels, reported Alexandra Jenkins, BSc, RD, a
    research associate at the University of Toronto in Ontario.

    The double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover-designed study enrolled 30
    well-controlled diabetes patients; 23 were receiving oral hypoglycemic
    agents, and seven used lifestyle intervention alone. The participants, who
    were kept on their standard diabetes regimen, were randomly assigned to
    receive either 3 g of ground-up North American-grown ginseng and 7 g of
    Konjac mannan fiber blend, or placebo, daily for 12 weeks.

    By the end of the study period, hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c) levels had dropped
    from an average baseline level of 7.0% to 6.5% in patients were taking the
    ginseng preparation compared with 6.8% for those who were taking placebo,
    Ms. Jenkins said.

    "The drop is comparable to that seen with other hypoglycemic agents, such as
    the alpha-glucosidase inhibitors, when used as adjunct therapy," she said.
    "The herbal prepartion appeared to be safe, with no adverse effects
    observed," she said.

    The results suggest that standard pharmacological therapies and ginseng are
    complementary in treating diabetes, said Francine R. Kaufman, MD, outgoing
    president of the American Diabetes Association. "The Chinese, who use
    ginseng root to treat a variety of ailments, have been in medicine for 5,000
    years," she said. "Just as acupuncture has been proven to have a role in
    Western medicine, so too will ginseng. We need to think globally."

    In the second study, Korean red ginseng improved both insulin secretion and
    insulin sensitivity when compared with placebo, reported John L.
    Sievenpiper, a PhD candidate at the University of Toronto. The trial
    enrolled 19 well-controlled diabetic patients, applying the same design used
    in the American ginseng study.

    Korean red ginseng was safe with liver, kidney, and hemostatic function and
    blood pressure not adversely affected compared with placebo, the study
    showed.

    While HbA1c levels did not significantly change, the ginseng preparation
    "was associated with a dramatic 40% drop in both postprandial plasma glucose
    and insulin levels," Mr. Sievenpiper said. Also, ginseng treatment led to a
    significant improvement in both hepatic insulin sensitivity and whole-body
    insulin sensitivity compared with placebo, he reported.

    "The baseline HbA1c levels were already at 6.5%, so we couldn't push it down
    significantly," he said. "But in patients with slightly higher levels, we
    might see an effect."

    Dr. Kaufman, who is also head of the Center for Diabetes at Children's
    Hospital in Los Angeles, California, agreed. "There is no doubt that
    natural products such as ginseng have a role in modulating weight and
    insulin sensitivity," she said. But exactly "how adjunctive they may or may
    not be" still needs to be determined, she added.

    Mr. Sievenpiper emphasized that "these are preliminary, short-term studies
    that indicate a need for more research. They are not a reason to recommend
    ginseng to patients," he said. And because of poor regulation,
    standardization, and labeling in the herbal industry, there is no way to
    know if one product will work as well as another, Mr. Sievenpiper said.

    He pointed out that in a recent survey physicians estimated that three in
    four patients take complementary medicines, including herbs.

    ADA 63rd Scientific Sessions: Poster 1676, presented June 14, 2003; Poster
    587, presented June 15, 2003.

  2. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 8:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Ginseng Helps in Controlling Bloo

    hmmm...is this the kind contaminated with pesticides ,,,like yours??

    hawki

  3. --

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Ginseng Helps in Controlling Blood Glucose

    American and Korean red ginseng may help to normalize blood glucose levels
    and improve insulin secretion and sensitivity in patients with type 2
    diabetes.

    Two studies were presented at the American Diabetes Association 63rd
    Scientific Sessions.
    In one study, people with type 2 diabetes who consumed ginseng and Konjac
    mannan fiber ( a highly viscous fiber similar to pectin) had a notable
    reduction in blood glucose levels, reported Alexandra Jenkins, BSc, RD, a
    research associate at the University of Toronto in Ontario.

    The double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover-designed study enrolled 30
    well-controlled diabetes patients; 23 were receiving oral hypoglycemic
    agents, and seven used lifestyle intervention alone. The participants,


    who

    Quoted message said:

    were kept on their standard diabetes regimen, were randomly assigned to
    receive either 3 g of ground-up North American-grown ginseng and 7 g of
    Konjac mannan fiber blend, or placebo, daily for 12 weeks.

    By the end of the study period, hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c) levels had dropped
    from an average baseline level of 7.0% to 6.5% in patients were taking the
    ginseng preparation compared with 6.8% for those who were taking placebo,
    Ms. Jenkins said.

    "The drop is comparable to that seen with other hypoglycemic agents, such


    as

    Quoted message said:

    the alpha-glucosidase inhibitors, when used as adjunct therapy," she said.
    "The herbal prepartion appeared to be safe, with no adverse effects
    observed," she said.

    The results suggest that standard pharmacological therapies and ginseng


    are

    Quoted message said:

    complementary in treating diabetes, said Francine R. Kaufman, MD, outgoing
    president of the American Diabetes Association. "The Chinese, who use
    ginseng root to treat a variety of ailments, have been in medicine for


    5,000

    Quoted message said:

    years," she said. "Just as acupuncture has been proven to have a role in
    Western medicine, so too will ginseng. We need to think globally."

    In the second study, Korean red ginseng improved both insulin secretion


    and

    Quoted message said:

    insulin sensitivity when compared with placebo, reported John L.
    Sievenpiper, a PhD candidate at the University of Toronto. The trial
    enrolled 19 well-controlled diabetic patients, applying the same design


    used

    Quoted message said:

    in the American ginseng study.

    Korean red ginseng was safe with liver, kidney, and hemostatic function


    and

    Quoted message said:

    blood pressure not adversely affected compared with placebo, the study
    showed.

    While HbA1c levels did not significantly change, the ginseng preparation
    "was associated with a dramatic 40% drop in both postprandial plasma


    glucose

    Quoted message said:

    and insulin levels," Mr. Sievenpiper said. Also, ginseng treatment led to


    a

    Quoted message said:

    significant improvement in both hepatic insulin sensitivity and whole-body
    insulin sensitivity compared with placebo, he reported.

    "The baseline HbA1c levels were already at 6.5%, so we couldn't push it


    down

    Quoted message said:

    significantly," he said. "But in patients with slightly higher levels, we
    might see an effect."

    Dr. Kaufman, who is also head of the Center for Diabetes at Children's
    Hospital in Los Angeles, California, agreed. "There is no doubt that
    natural products such as ginseng have a role in modulating weight and
    insulin sensitivity," she said. But exactly "how adjunctive they may or


    may

    Quoted message said:

    not be" still needs to be determined, she added.

    Mr. Sievenpiper emphasized that "these are preliminary, short-term studies
    that indicate a need for more research. They are not a reason to


    recommend

    Quoted message said:

    ginseng to patients," he said. And because of poor regulation,
    standardization, and labeling in the herbal industry, there is no way to
    know if one product will work as well as another, Mr. Sievenpiper said.

    He pointed out that in a recent survey physicians estimated that three in
    four patients take complementary medicines, including herbs.

    ADA 63rd Scientific Sessions: Poster 1676, presented June 14, 2003; Poster
    587, presented June 15, 2003.

    Congratulations! Dave. You actually included a citation! Now do the same to
    support those wild claims of benefits more extraordinary than a 0.3
    improvement in glycohemoglobin levels.

    --Rich

  4. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Rich Shewmaker" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 11:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    also Davey Scumbag

    please explain the significance of HgbA1C...and how it differs from blood sugar
    levels???

    hawki

  5. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Rich Shewmaker" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 11:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    also Davey Scumbag

    please explain the significance of HgbA1C...and how it differs from blood


    sugar

    Quoted message said:

    levels???

    Why do you need to know that. Do you think I am your personal
    encyclopedia?

  6. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 2:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    please explain the significance of HgbA1C...and how it differs from blood


    sugar

    Quoted message said:

    levels???

    Why do you need to know that. Do you think I am your personal
    encyclopedia?

    lowlife....YOUR article posted the very small reduction in HgbA1C...thus the
    burden of defining said term is on you...

    but we all know you are too dumb to know it...

    or to understand its significance....BTW...I don't need an
    encoyclopedia....such knowledge is very every day to me...

    your excuse is??

    hawki

  7. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 2:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    please explain the significance of HgbA1C...and how it differs from


    blood

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    sugar

    Quoted message said:

    levels???

    Why do you need to know that. Do you think I am your personal
    encyclopedia?

    lowlife....YOUR article posted the very small reduction in HgbA1C...thus


    the

    Quoted message said:

    burden of defining said term is on you...

    but we all know you are too dumb to know it...

    or to understand its significance....BTW...I don't need an
    encoyclopedia....such knowledge is very every day to me...

    your excuse is??

    You are one of the ignorance is bliss and not very smart group.

  8. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 5:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    You are one of the ignorance is bliss and not very smart group.

    coming from you....that is more than laughable

    what still can't find a defintion of HgbA1c

    hawki

  9. Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Ginseng Helps in Controlling Blood Glucose

    American and Korean red ginseng may help to normalize blood glucose levels
    and improve insulin secretion and sensitivity in patients with type 2
    diabetes.

    Two studies were presented at the American Diabetes Association 63rd
    Scientific Sessions.
    In one study, people with type 2 diabetes who consumed ginseng and Konjac
    mannan fiber ( a highly viscous fiber similar to pectin) had a notable
    reduction in blood glucose levels, reported Alexandra Jenkins, BSc, RD, a
    research associate at the University of Toronto in Ontario.

    The double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover-designed study enrolled 30
    well-controlled diabetes patients; 23 were receiving oral hypoglycemic
    agents, and seven used lifestyle intervention alone. The participants,


    who

    Quoted message said:

    were kept on their standard diabetes regimen, were randomly assigned to
    receive either 3 g of ground-up North American-grown ginseng and 7 g of
    Konjac mannan fiber blend, or placebo, daily for 12 weeks.

    With these numbers, the numbers mentioned below mean little or nothing. In
    fact, the sd in the test must be extremely low, lower than would be expected
    in a trial.

    Quoted message said:


    By the end of the study period, hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c) levels had dropped
    from an average baseline level of 7.0% to 6.5% in patients were taking the
    ginseng preparation compared with 6.8% for those who were taking placebo,
    Ms. Jenkins said.

    "The drop is comparable to that seen with other hypoglycemic agents, such


    as

    Quoted message said:

    the alpha-glucosidase inhibitors, when used as adjunct therapy," she said.
    "The herbal prepartion appeared to be safe, with no adverse effects
    observed," she said.

    The results suggest that standard pharmacological therapies and ginseng


    are

    Quoted message said:

    complementary in treating diabetes, said Francine R. Kaufman, MD, outgoing
    president of the American Diabetes Association. "The Chinese, who use
    ginseng root to treat a variety of ailments, have been in medicine for


    5,000

    Quoted message said:

    years," she said. "Just as acupuncture has been proven to have a role in
    Western medicine, so too will ginseng. We need to think globally."

    Ah! Now acupuncture is proven....<<g>>

    Quoted message said:


    In the second study, Korean red ginseng improved both insulin secretion


    and

    Quoted message said:

    insulin sensitivity when compared with placebo, reported John L.
    Sievenpiper, a PhD candidate at the University of Toronto. The trial
    enrolled 19 well-controlled diabetic patients, applying the same design


    used

    Quoted message said:

    in the American ginseng study.

    Only 19?! That makes it even worse!

    Quoted message said:


    Korean red ginseng was safe with liver, kidney, and hemostatic function


    and

    Quoted message said:

    blood pressure not adversely affected compared with placebo, the study
    showed.

    While HbA1c levels did not significantly change, the ginseng preparation
    "was associated with a dramatic 40% drop in both postprandial plasma


    glucose

    Quoted message said:

    and insulin levels," Mr. Sievenpiper said. Also, ginseng treatment led to


    a

    Quoted message said:

    significant improvement in both hepatic insulin sensitivity and whole-body
    insulin sensitivity compared with placebo, he reported.

    So, these results contradict the results from the previous study. That's not
    strange, as the number of observations is so low that nothing can be
    concluded from them.

    Quoted message said:


    "The baseline HbA1c levels were already at 6.5%, so we couldn't push it


    down

    Quoted message said:

    significantly," he said. "But in patients with slightly higher levels, we
    might see an effect."

    Dr. Kaufman, who is also head of the Center for Diabetes at Children's
    Hospital in Los Angeles, California, agreed. "There is no doubt that
    natural products such as ginseng have a role in modulating weight and
    insulin sensitivity," she said. But exactly "how adjunctive they may or


    may

    Quoted message said:

    not be" still needs to be determined, she added.

    Yup. Much larger trials are needed to be able to draw any kind of
    conclusion.

    Quoted message said:


    Mr. Sievenpiper emphasized that "these are preliminary, short-term studies
    that indicate a need for more research. They are not a reason to


    recommend

    Quoted message said:

    ginseng to patients," he said. And because of poor regulation,
    standardization, and labeling in the herbal industry, there is no way to
    know if one product will work as well as another, Mr. Sievenpiper said.

    He pointed out that in a recent survey physicians estimated that three in
    four patients take complementary medicines, including herbs.

    That is besides the point. The question is, does this or this herb actually
    work as reported in a significant (in the statistical sense) portion of the
    population. Nothing can be concluded from the above figures.

    Quoted message said:

    ADA 63rd Scientific Sessions: Poster 1676, presented June 14, 2003; Poster
    587, presented June 15, 2003.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    Can't you see?
    It all makes perfect sense,
    expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

    (R. Waters)

  10. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 5:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    You are one of the ignorance is bliss and not very smart group.

    coming from you....that is more than laughable

    what still can't find a defintion of HgbA1c

    The wonderful thing about the natural way is that it is not about science.
    It is available to everyone. Do you think that a dog had to study science
    to know enough to eat grass to cure his upset stomach? You know about
    drugs and the names of body parts than I do. But the real point is that is
    ALL you know. I know how to restore health in sick people by natural
    means and you don't. You require a blind belief system in order to feed
    synthetic drugs to sick people. Your belief system is in the drug companies.
    You can't think or act without their permission. I am not restricted by this
    because I understand that plants will restore health. I don't eed a drug
    company
    to tell me what to do, I already know what to do. Your world is so tiny and
    confined that your only way of showing any value is to tell me how many
    scientific things you know. I have never challenged you on that. I have
    never
    said you don't understand science. What I do say is that you don't
    understand
    about healing. That is my belief.

  11. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/30/2003 6:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The wonderful thing about the natural way is that it is not about science.
    It is available to everyone. Do you think that a dog had to study science
    to know enough to eat grass to cure his upset stomach? You kn

    snip the rest of drivel..

    yikes..now resorting to a canned response you copied from somewhere else...you
    also used it just today in a thread about Coumadin,,etc..

    Quoted message said:

    I know how to restore health in sick people by natural
    means and you don't. You require a

    and your credentials for the above lie are??

    hawki

  12. Amazing how the cowardly pack animals jump in isn't it?
    Now that's lowlife.
    Anth

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/29/2003 2:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    > please explain the significance of HgbA1C...and how it differs from


    blood

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    sugar
    > levels???

    Why do you need to know that. Do you think I am your personal
    encyclopedia?

    lowlife....YOUR article posted the very small reduction in HgbA1C...thus


    the

    Quoted message said:

    burden of defining said term is on you...

    but we all know you are too dumb to know it...

    or to understand its significance....BTW...I don't need an
    encoyclopedia....such knowledge is very every day to me...

    your excuse is??

    You are one of the ignorance is bliss and not very smart group.

  13. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/30/2003 7:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Amazing how the cowardly pack animals jump in isn't it?
    Now that's lowlife.
    Anth

    Quoted message said:

    Hawki63"

    Quoted message said:

    but we all know you are too dumb to know it...

    ZZzz.

    Hawki desperately need to build her low self esteem, by calling others dumb and
    telling how smart she is.

    Rather pitiful.

    Jan

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    >From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    >Date: 9/29/2003 2:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
    >
    >
    >

    >> please explain the significance of HgbA1C...and how it differs from


    blood

    Quoted message said:

    >sugar
    >> levels???
    >
    >Why do you need to know that. Do you think I am your personal
    >encyclopedia?

    lowlife....YOUR article posted the very small reduction in HgbA1C...thus


    the

    Quoted message said:

    burden of defining said term is on you...

    but we all know you are too dumb to know it...

    or to understand its significance....BTW...I don't need an
    encoyclopedia....such knowledge is very every day to me...

    your excuse is??

    You are one of the ignorance is bliss and not very smart group.

  14. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Date: 9/30/2003 9:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    ZZzz.

    Hawki desperately need to build her low self esteem, by calling others dumb
    and
    telling how smart she is.

    Rather pitiful.

    funny....I don't waste my time sleeping thru class...like you apparently did..

    high school dropout...and sandbox queen...

    not THAT is pitiful

    hawki

  15. Ah the light dawns... Hawki is a kid.
    Anth

    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Date: 9/30/2003 9:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    ZZzz.

    Hawki desperately need to build her low self esteem, by calling others


    dumb

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and
    telling how smart she is.

    Rather pitiful.

    funny....I don't waste my time sleeping thru class...like you apparently


    did..

    Quoted message said:


    high school dropout...and sandbox queen...

    not THAT is pitiful

    hawki

  16. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/30/2003 9:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Ah the light dawns... Hawki is a kid.
    Anth

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    funny....I don't waste my time sleeping thru class...like you apparently


    did..

    good pickup...obviously meant "didn't"

    now Janny will jump all over me and say I have low self esteem if I point
    out...again..that I have a master's degree in nursing..

    still "do" however spend time in a classroom.....with the 30+ hours each year
    of continuing educ

    yikes...wish I was a kid!!
    hawki

  17. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/30/2003 8:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Ah the light dawns... Hawki is a kid.
    Anth

    One that tells lies.

    A pity she couldn't have been in my daycare centers, where lying wasn't
    premitted.

    Jan

    Quoted message said:

    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Date: 9/30/2003 9:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    ZZzz.

    Hawki desperately need to build her low self esteem, by calling others


    dumb

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and
    telling how smart she is.

    Rather pitiful.

    funny....I don't waste my time sleeping thru class...like you apparently


    did..

    Quoted message said:


    high school dropout...and sandbox queen...

    not THAT is pitiful

    hawki

  18. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 9/30/2003 8:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Ah the light dawns... Hawki is a kid.
    Anth

    One that tells lies.

    A pity she couldn't have been in my daycare centers, where lying wasn't
    premitted.

    You must have spent a lot of time in the corner.

    Premitted?

  19. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Studies show ginseng helps diabetics
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Date: 9/30/2003 11:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    One that tells lies.

    A pity she couldn't have been in my daycare centers, where lying wasn't
    premitted.

    Jan

    a/ what a crack coming from a no nothing crackpot like you!!!
    what lies??

    b/would have been a bit tought to be in one of YOUR daycare centers...do the
    math...have been a nurse for 35 years...

    and in our family NO ONE went to daycare...we had a stay at home mom...

    "lying wasn't premitted??"" what did you premit??

    pathetic

    hawki

  20. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    One that tells lies.

    A pity she couldn't have been in my daycare centers, where lying wasn't
    premitted.

    My heart goes out to all those little darlings...Jan determined who was
    lying?
    Ah, the horrors.,,child abuse.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.