Strong Wheels

(David) said:

Hi, All. I am looking to buy a new pair of wheels and am in need of advice. I am very hard on
wheels, often breaking spokes. Current wheels are dura ace/mavic open pro, 32/32 not sure what make
of spokes. I weigh 85 kilos and ride aggressively, and ride about 200-250 miles a week often on
poor roads. I do not race so ultra light wheels are not needed, however I do not want cart wheels
either. I never ride tires less than
23mm. Can anyone suggest a good hub/spoke/rim combo or a "ready to race" wheelset that will offer
reliability and good road feedback? Thanx in advance, David.

Have you tried the basic 36-hole Mavic MA3 rim? Not sure how these compare to the Open Pro in
relation to weight, but they might be a tad stronger? Cheap too.

Garry

David said:

Hi, All. I am looking to buy a new pair of wheels and am in need of advice. I am very hard on
wheels, often breaking spokes. Current wheels are dura ace/mavic open pro, 32/32 not sure what
make of spokes. I weigh 85 kilos and ride aggressively, and ride about 200-250 miles a week often
on poor roads. I do not race so ultra light wheels are not needed, however I do not want cart
wheels either. I never ride tires less than
23mm. Can anyone suggest a good hub/spoke/rim combo or a "ready to race" wheelset that will offer
reliability and good road feedback?

Since you've got DA hubs, it would make economic sense to re-use them (with exactly the same spoking
pattern and orientation for hub shell metal fatigue reasons). Any decent wheel builder (even mail
order ones) should be willing to re-use hubs. But if getting new hubs, get 36h rear - will
definitely result in a stronger wheel which will only be about 20 grams heavier.

Do your rims get damaged or go *well* out of true? If not, might as well get Open Pros again (or
even re-use existing ones if in good condition). Poor building and choice of spokes is probably
mainly responsible for the problems. Spokes must have good tension and be stress-relieved. But if
want stronger rims, MA3 should be a good bet.

Spokes: Make sure they are butted (or double butted). Consult wheel builder on gauges. I'm getting
some DT Alpine III spokes - should be highly fatigue resistant. If all new wheels, make sure they
are laced 3-cross (except perhaps 2x on rear left side if desired).

Also consider using 25mm* tyres to better protect the wheels. They may actually be faster on poor
road surfaces anyway. And choose your moments carefully for the aggression! :-) You need to "ride
light" over the worst stuff to look after wheels and bike.
* Or at least a relatively wide 23 like Vittoria Open Corsa.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bekec2

Quoted message said:

Do your rims get damaged or go *well* out of true? If not, might as well get Open Pros again (or
even re-use existing ones if in good condition).

Surely nobody goes to the lenghts of re-using rims?? It must take much longer to de-spoke a wheel
keeping the rim true than it does to build in the first place.

--
David Brown :o) kitemap.co.ukkitemap.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs wrote,

Since you've got DA hubs, it would make economic sense to re-use them (with exactly the same
spoking pattern and orientation for hub shell metal fatigue reasons). Any decent wheel builder
(even mail order ones) should be willing to re-use hubs. Do your rims get damaged or go *well* out
of true? If not, might as well get Open Pros again (or even re-use existing ones if in good
condition). Poor building and choice of spokes is probably mainly responsible for the problems.
Spokes must have good tension and be stress-relieved. But if want stronger rims, MA3 should be a
good bet.

I do intend to have these wheels rebuilt, possibly with the same rims as these are not damaged.
The main problem seems to be spoke breakage at the flange and is probably due to poor quality
spokes/building.

Quoted message said:

Also consider using 25mm* tyres to better protect the wheels. They may actually be faster on poor
road surfaces anyway. And choose your moments carefully for the aggression! :-) You need to "ride
light" over the worst stuff to look after wheels and bike.
* Or at least a relatively wide 23 like Vittoria Open Corsa.

~PB

I used a pair of 28mm Hutchinson tyres for the winter that just *squeezed* under the brakes, these
were ok but do not feel as nice as the gp3000 that I am using at the moment.

Living here in the Rep of Ireland there can be a period of down time when equipment breaks if one
is not in a position to drive to the LBS (25 miles for tyres cables etc, 50 miles for the good
stuff) immediatley. I have been stuck without a bike for over a week due to combo of slow LBS and
work/family commitments. I do keep a stock of disposables, but am wary of trying to repair
wheels. I will certainly have my current rear wheel rebuilt but would like to buy a new pair of
wheels and keep my originals as spares to aviod downtime, I would be able to change the cassette
& tires when changing the wheels in the event of damage.

So, any ideas on a new pair of strong reliable wheels as per my OP?

TIA David.

ps when the fast boys put the hammer down on a Sunday morning aggression is the name of the game,
regardless of road conditions ;-)

David <[email hidden]> wrote:

: So, any ideas on a new pair of strong reliable wheels as per my OP?

Yup. Get someone *good* to build you some wheels. Open Pro rims, nice hubs (Campag or Shimano
depending on your groupset). 32/32 spokes should be enough if the wheels are built well. If you are
getting news rims and hubs though you may as well go 36/36.

Basically, don't go whereever you got your last wheels built.

I hit a large pothole at 30mph in a paceline on tuesday night. The shock hurt my hands and tested my
bike handling but the wheels were completely true (Chorus hubs, Open Pros, ultra-light Sapim spokes,
32/32, 3-cross).

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

David said:

So, any ideas on a new pair of strong reliable wheels as per my OP?
ps when the fast boys put the hammer down on a Sunday morning aggression is the name of the
game, regardless of road conditions ;-)

Mavic MA3 rim + whatever hubs you like + the following spokes:

Front: 2/1.5/2 or 2/1.8/2 (eg. Sapim Laser or Sapim Race / DT Rev or DT Comp)

Rear drive side: DT Alpine III* (this is where most strength is required)

Rear left: as front (pref 2/1.5/2)

36 spokes rear, 32 or 36 front, both 3-cross (or rear left 2-cross)

* see dtswiss.comindex.aspOpen ↗

~PB

David Brown :o) said:

Surely nobody goes to the lenghts of re-using rims?? It must take much longer to de-spoke a wheel
keeping the rim true than it does to build in the first place.

Would save about fifty quid and doesn't matter about rim going out of true during the process, does
it? Shouldn't go out enough to permanently deform the rim. Spokes can be replaced quite easily one
at a time. Detensioning them all first helps.

~PB