Strong rear road wheel

Absent Husband said:

Hi all!!

Let me start by saying that this is NOT a troll (although its probably
an FAQ question, I couldn't find any similar threads by Googling...)

Anyway, I'm getting jack of my rear wheel - its a Mavic CXP22 (700c
32-spokes). Maybe its not a strong rim. Maybe at ~85kg I'm just a heavy
lard-@rse. Maybe a combo of these things... But anyway, it seems to
come out of true semi-regularly and its kinda annoying (although it
does mean I get to practice my truing skills!!)

So - what I'm looking at is getting a replacement. What I want is
something very strong and stiff (mind out of the gutter, people...).
Don't really care too much about weight - I have plenty to lose around
the waist before worrying about shaving grams off the wheels!! And $$$
are obviously an issue, as I'll have to lobby hard for the funds to do
this...

Oh, and this will be my 'everything' wheel - commuting, training &
racing...

I've been eyeing off the Velocity Deep-V (in a 36-hole variant), as
they seem to be nice strong wheels. But thought I'd throw it open to
ask for your learned thoughts!!!

Cheers all,
Absent Husband (starin' out the window at the rain...)

G'Day, in another thread about built vs. factory wheels, I tell a
similar story - built wheels have always eventually gone out of true and
then (or sooner) started pinging drive side spokes. I've recently gone
over to factory wheels and after a couple of thousand km, am very
happy. No broken spokes, wheels still true. I weigh 96kg. So, I
recommend Campag Scirocco as a good compromise for weight, strength and
price. They use the G3 spoking system which means that the rear wheel
has twice as many spokes on the drive side as the other. Bloody
sensible in my eyes. Your LBS should be able to swap over the spindle
to Shimano if that's what you use. The sciroccos, zondas and eurus (in
increasing order of price) all have a moderately deep v-rim - you need a
tube with longer valve.

Anyway, I like 'em, but as with everything, YMMV.

Cheers,
Duncan.

(staring out the window at a beautiful sunny Perth winter's day...)

--
e-mail: [email hidden]
To reply, you'll have to remove finger.

Absent Husband said:

Hi all!!

Let me start by saying that this is NOT a troll (although its probably
an FAQ question, I couldn't find any similar threads by Googling...)

Anyway, I'm getting jack of my rear wheel - its a Mavic CXP22 (700c
32-spokes). Maybe its not a strong rim. Maybe at ~85kg I'm just a heavy
lard-@rse. Maybe a combo of these things... But anyway, it seems to
come out of true semi-regularly and its kinda annoying (although it
does mean I get to practice my truing skills!!)

So - what I'm looking at is getting a replacement. What I want is
something very strong and stiff (mind out of the gutter, people...).
Don't really care too much about weight - I have plenty to lose around
the waist before worrying about shaving grams off the wheels!! And $$$
are obviously an issue, as I'll have to lobby hard for the funds to do
this...

Oh, and this will be my 'everything' wheel - commuting, training &
racing...

I've been eyeing off the Velocity Deep-V (in a 36-hole variant), as
they seem to be nice strong wheels. But thought I'd throw it open to
ask for your learned thoughts!!!

Cheers all,
Absent Husband (starin' out the window at the rain...)

There's no reason your wheel shouldn't be strong enough, though 36
spokes might be better. I'd say it was probably poorly built in the
first place. A good mechanic should be able to true it so it stays
right for a long time (not wishing to negate your efforts Abby) I don't
know about shops on the southside of town, on this side Ridgeways are
good or you could try Darrell McCulloch www.llewellynbikes.com he
builds wheels as well as frames. It would be cheaper to get your old
wheel fixed than get a new one, if you've got a hub that's decent and
worth keeping.

Bruce.

Absent Husband said:

Hi all!!

Let me start by saying that this is NOT a troll (although its probably
an FAQ question, I couldn't find any similar threads by Googling...)

Anyway, I'm getting jack of my rear wheel - its a Mavic CXP22 (700c
32-spokes). Maybe its not a strong rim. Maybe at ~85kg I'm just a heavy
lard-@rse. Maybe a combo of these things... But anyway, it seems to
come out of true semi-regularly and its kinda annoying (although it
does mean I get to practice my truing skills!!)

85kg is light. I have Mavic Open Pro rims on 32 spoke Shimano
105 hubs, with DT Swiss 14guage spokes. I hardly ever
have to touch them. They were built by a gun wheel builder
at my LBS. I train, race, commute, gutter-jump etc on them,
never a problem. The rims wore out before I bothered
truing them. I vary between 87 and 93 kg and put a -lot-
of k's on these wheels. They're cheap, strong, light
enough and good.

I'd second your thought on the Velocity Deep-Vs. Very strong rim, kept true
and nicely priced. Sealed bearings are good too. I also have velocities on
my commuter for years.

Plus - you'll be supporting a local company!

Jimbo

Quoted message said:

Hi all!!

Let me start by saying that this is NOT a troll (although its probably
an FAQ question, I couldn't find any similar threads by Googling...)

Anyway, I'm getting jack of my rear wheel - its a Mavic CXP22 (700c
32-spokes). Maybe its not a strong rim. Maybe at ~85kg I'm just a heavy
lard-@rse. Maybe a combo of these things... But anyway, it seems to
come out of true semi-regularly and its kinda annoying (although it
does mean I get to practice my truing skills!!)

So - what I'm looking at is getting a replacement. What I want is
something very strong and stiff (mind out of the gutter, people...).
Don't really care too much about weight - I have plenty to lose around
the waist before worrying about shaving grams off the wheels!! And $$$
are obviously an issue, as I'll have to lobby hard for the funds to do
this...

Oh, and this will be my 'everything' wheel - commuting, training &
racing...

I've been eyeing off the Velocity Deep-V (in a 36-hole variant), as
they seem to be nice strong wheels. But thought I'd throw it open to
ask for your learned thoughts!!!

Cheers all,
Absent Husband (starin' out the window at the rain...)

Absent Husband said:

But anyway, it seems to come out of true semi-regularly
and its kinda annoying (although it does mean I get to
practice my truing skills!!)

Wheels aren't rocket science. There's a few very basic principles to observe, and all will be rosy.

A wheel goes out of true because the spokes aren't tensioned enough. What happens is that when the wheel is loaded up (via lard [censored] or other method), the spokes at the top of the wheel get tighter and those at the bottom of the wheel get looser. If they aren't tight enough, then the ones at the bottom can unload completely. When this happens, it's easy for the nipple to vibrate loose, making the wheel go out of true. This can also cause spokes to break, as when they unload they move around at the point where they go through the hub flange, and will eventually fail.

Conversely, if the tension is too high, you get spokes pulling out of the rim.

There's a happy medium, where the spokes neither unload completely nor load up beyond the tensile strength of the rim (or spoke). This range of tensions is bigger the lighter you are, and also bigger the more spokes in the wheel, and also bigger for stronger (heavier) rims.

My advice is to tension the wheel up some more. This may cause spokes (weakened by being unloaded) to break, but it's worth a go. If more than a couple of spokes break as a result, then relace with new spokes.

Oh, and make sure you properly stress relieve, so that the spoke heads are seated well in the flange, and any residual stresses in the spokes are removed.

Cheers,

Suzy

DeF said:

G'Day, in another thread about built vs. factory wheels, I tell a
similar story - built wheels have always eventually gone out of true and
then (or sooner) started pinging drive side spokes. I've recently gone
over to factory wheels and after a couple of thousand km, am very
happy. No broken spokes, wheels still true.

I've had my Mavic Ksyrium Elites for 3 yrs now without an issue. Sure
I'm just a rec rider, but I think I've put them through enough. I
have them checked for spoke tension about every 6 months by a LBS even
if there is no visible truing required. Before this wheelset I was
running the bikes original wheelset which were Mavic CXP22's on Sora
hubs. I couldn't believe the difference between the 2 wheelsets. The
Ksyriums crapped all over the CXP22's in every way. I put it down to
the overall quality of the two wheelsets, you get what you pay for. I
think it would be the same for a custom built wheelset. Build with
[censored] parts and you will get a [censored] wheelset. Build with quality
parts (and wheel builder) and you will get a quality custom wheelset.
Most people that have put their hand up for Custom wheelsets have
listed quality parts. I will soon find out if my theory is right, as my
next bike project is to get a custom wheelset built up. I've got the
parts list sorted, just need the cash & builder now...

suzyj <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

My advice is to tension the wheel up some more. This may cause spokes
(weakened by being unloaded) to break, but it's worth a go. If more
than a couple of spokes break as a result, then relace with new
spokes.

If only this were as simple as the old lady on "Les Triplettes des
Belleville" makes it look! A tuning fork and a pair of pliers and she can
true any wonky wheel. If she didn't look like Ronnie Corbett she'd be the
perfect woman! 🙂

Graeme

DeF said:

G'Day, in another thread about built vs. factory wheels, I tell a
similar story - built wheels have always eventually gone out of true and
then (or sooner) started pinging drive side spokes. I've recently gone
over to factory wheels and after a couple of thousand km, am very
happy. No broken spokes, wheels still true. I weigh 96kg. So, I
recommend Campag Scirocco as a good compromise for weight, strength and
price. They use the G3 spoking system which means that the rear wheel
has twice as many spokes on the drive side as the other. Bloody
sensible in my eyes. Your LBS should be able to swap over the spindle
to Shimano if that's what you use. The sciroccos, zondas and eurus (in
increasing order of price) all have a moderately deep v-rim - you need a
tube with longer valve.

i think my next wheels will be open-pros (they come in black, right? 😄)
but my current campag protons were a revelation. they amazingly survived 'the crash' even tho my handlebars were doubled over from the impact and all the other damage. makes you realise what an amazing bit of engineering a bunch of silly-narrow bits of wire arranged 'just-so' is...
the guys at CW said they only needed 2 tweaks with a spoke-key and were perfecto again. amazing.
oh, and i like it when 'coach' says 85kg is light! 😄😄😄

F"currently bloated out to 86kg"Dutch

flyingdutch said:

i think my next wheels will be open-pros (they come in black, right? 😄)
but my current campag protons were a revelation. they amazingly survived 'the crash' even tho my handlebars were doubled over from the impact and all the other damage. makes you realise what an amazing bit of engineering a bunch of silly-narrow bits of wire arranged 'just-so' is...
the guys at CW said they only needed 2 tweaks with a spoke-key and were perfecto again. amazing.
oh, and i like it when 'coach' says 85kg is light! 😄😄😄

F"currently bloated out to 86kg"Dutch

Over 85kg can be acceptable for a good cyclist (ie. Magnus Backstedt 90kg and 6'3"😉 if you are over 6 foot tall.

I don't think you or the 'coach' are that statuesque.

quote='suzyj'Absent Husband said:

But anyway, it seems to come out of true semi-regularly
and its kinda annoying (although it does mean I get to
practice my truing skills!!)

Wheels aren't rocket science. There's a few very basic principles to observe, and all will be rosy.

A wheel goes out of true because the spokes aren't tensioned enough. What happens is that when the wheel is loaded up (via lard [censored] or other method), the spokes at the top of the wheel get tighter and those at the bottom of the wheel get looser. If they aren't tight enough, then the ones at the bottom can unload completely. When this happens, it's easy for the nipple to vibrate loose, making the wheel go out of true. This can also cause spokes to break, as when they unload they move around at the point where they go through the hub flange, and will eventually fail.

Conversely, if the tension is too high, you get spokes pulling out of the rim.

There's a happy medium, where the spokes neither unload completely nor load up beyond the tensile strength of the rim (or spoke). This range of tensions is bigger the lighter you are, and also bigger the more spokes in the wheel, and also bigger for stronger (heavier) rims.

My advice is to tension the wheel up some more. This may cause spokes (weakened by being unloaded) to break, but it's worth a go. If more than a couple of spokes break as a result, then relace with new spokes.

Oh, and make sure you properly stress relieve, so that the spoke heads are seated well in the flange, and any residual stresses in the spokes are removed.

Cheers,

Suzy[/QUOTE]

There is no way I could have said the same thing any better.

Sometimes a few minutes of work with the spoke key can save you literally hundreds of dollars. Give it a go before you spend your hard-earned.

Ritch

Absent Husband said:

Hi all!!

I've been eyeing off the Velocity Deep-V (in a 36-hole variant), as
they seem to be nice strong wheels. But thought I'd throw it open to
ask for your learned thoughts!!!

Cheers all,
Absent Husband (starin' out the window at the rain...)

One issue you may come across is a dificulty in finding 36 hole stuff.

Last year I was cleaned up by a car coming through a round about and completely wreaked my reat wheel - car hit my thigh - went arborne sideways - landed rear wheel first - I think.

It took me 16 bike shops to find a matching rim - a Campagnolo "Melbourne 56" in 36 holes to rebuild onto my Mavic 501.

People kept looking at me strangely and sugggesting I must weigh a lot when I asked for 36 holes. It just happens I like the old school.

flyingdutch said:

DeF said:

G'Day, in another thread about built vs. factory wheels, I tell a
similar story - built wheels have always eventually gone out of true
and
then (or sooner) started pinging drive side spokes. I've recently
gone
over to factory wheels and after a couple of thousand km, am very
happy. No broken spokes, wheels still true. I weigh 96kg. So, I
recommend Campag Scirocco as a good compromise for weight, strength
and
price. They use the G3 spoking system which means that the rear wheel
has twice as many spokes on the drive side as the other. Bloody
sensible in my eyes. Your LBS should be able to swap over the spindle
to Shimano if that's what you use. The sciroccos, zondas and eurus
(in
increasing order of price) all have a moderately deep v-rim - you need
a
tube with longer valve.

i think my next wheels will be open-pros (they come in black, right?
😄)
but my current campag protons were a revelation. they amazingly
survived 'the crash' even tho my handlebars were doubled over from the
impact and all the other damage. makes you realise what an amazing bit
of engineering a bunch of silly-narrow bits of wire arranged 'just-so'
is...
the guys at CW said they only needed 2 tweaks with a spoke-key and were
perfecto again. amazing.
oh, and i like it when 'coach' says 85kg is light! 😄😄😄

The problem with fancy wheels isn't so much their strength,
light weight or otherwise, it's the difficulty and expense of
fixing them when things do go wrong.

Example - one of my lads, brand new ksyrium elites. Minor
(no-one fell off or hit dirt etc) crash at a race - pulled 2
spokes through his rear rim, destroying it.

Now, can you get a ksyrium rim easily? No ... are they
reasonably cheap to replace? No. Can you maybe
fit a cheaper rim? No - gotta be a ksyrium rim ...

It worked out cheaper for him to get new wheels made up - which
are just as strong if not stronger, pretty close to the same weight
give or take a few 10s of grams and if he breaks another
rim, it'll only cost maybe $100 to fix.

Some at my LBS reckon Mavic Ksyrium Elites are pretty robust

Rory Williams said:

One issue you may come across is a dificulty in finding 36 hole stuff.

Last year I was cleaned up by a car coming through a round about and completely wreaked my reat wheel - car hit my thigh - went arborne sideways - landed rear wheel first - I think.

It took me 16 bike shops to find a matching rim - a Campagnolo "Melbourne 56" in 36 holes to rebuild onto my Mavic 501.

People kept looking at me strangely and sugggesting I must weigh a lot when I asked for 36 holes. It just happens I like the old school.

You are thinking wrong, chase up some tandem wheels. 48 holes!

Absent Husband said:

Hi all!!

Let me start by saying that this is NOT a troll (although its probably
an FAQ question, I couldn't find any similar threads by Googling...)

Anyway, I'm getting jack of my rear wheel - its a Mavic CXP22 (700c
32-spokes). Maybe its not a strong rim. Maybe at ~85kg I'm just a heavy
lard-@rse. Maybe a combo of these things... But anyway, it seems to
come out of true semi-regularly and its kinda annoying (although it
does mean I get to practice my truing skills!!)

So - what I'm looking at is getting a replacement. What I want is
something very strong and stiff (mind out of the gutter, people...).
Don't really care too much about weight - I have plenty to lose around
the waist before worrying about shaving grams off the wheels!! And $$$
are obviously an issue, as I'll have to lobby hard for the funds to do
this...

Oh, and this will be my 'everything' wheel - commuting, training &
racing...

I've been eyeing off the Velocity Deep-V (in a 36-hole variant), as
they seem to be nice strong wheels. But thought I'd throw it open to
ask for your learned thoughts!!!

Cheers all,
Absent Husband (starin' out the window at the rain...)

Probably should add that the flexibility of the rim doesn't matter much as it is the tension of the wheel that keeps it true (with or without you onboard). So when you say you want a strong rim - you really mean that it can be tensioned high enough to keep it true, without pulling the nipples through the eyelet.

If you're regularly having to retrue the wheel, then follow Suzy's advice and I add that you should watch out for spoke windup. This happens when the spoke twists instead of advancing the nipple along the thread. One strategy is to over-turn and then back it off. For example: a quarter turn is achieved by tightening a half turn and then backing off a quarter.

Good luck

Ritch

Piledhigher said:

You are thinking wrong, chase up some tandem wheels. 48 holes!

Back in the day, the standard for road and track was 40 for the back, and 32 for the front. Bulletproof.

Ya need to find yourself a decent set of Conloys, and some Airlite hubs to lace them to, and proper chromed spokes - none of this fancy-schmancy stainless rubbish they're flogging off to everyone now! And none of this woggy rubbish either, gotta be the good gear, made in mother England.

Regards,

Suzy (has just that set of wheels on her Speedwell, and they're very sweet thanks)

On 29 Jun 2005 20:09:34 -0700, "alex" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Some at my LBS reckon Mavic Ksyrium Elites are pretty robust

And they are, but if you do manage to break one, your repair
bill will be non-trivial.

PiledHigher said:

Over 85kg can be acceptable for a good cyclist (ie. Magnus Backstedt 90kg and 6'3"😉 if you are over 6 foot tall.

I don't think you or the 'coach' are that statuesque.

hey! i resemble that remark... 🙄

besides, skinny little buggers who cant cope with a few ales shouldnt poke sticks 😄😄😄

F"way too many ales last night. uuuurrghhh"Dutch

flyingdutch said:

hey! i resemble that remark... 🙄

besides, skinny little buggers who cant cope with a few ales shouldnt poke sticks 😄😄😄

F"way too many ales last night. uuuurrghhh"Dutch

Its not the few ales, its the few ales after that and the few after that.