Stripping paint off steel

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Tilyou1) said:

1. Should I have this professionally done -- and if so, any suggestions about dipping,
sandblasting, etc. (I live in NYC)?

2. In researching this important issue I ran across the old newsgroup post (excerpted below) which
warns: "Don't use OLD stripper, a chemical reaction can cause hydrogen embritlement in certain
grades of steel."

So... what is "OLD" stripper?

I spent many hours trying to remove all the paint from an old Raleigh. If you are faced with
anything like that English stove enamel and your time is worth anything at all consider having it
media (aka: Sand) blasted. Or at least let the media blaster do the detailing. Find a local powder
coating outfit that does bicycles and ask them who they use to prep a bicycle frame. When I had one
done the standard was to use walnut shell as the "media," not sand.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]

I don't know of any metal crystallization issues with any chemical strippers. We've used Dupont
5662S to good effect. A product called "Aircraft paint stripper" , which is methyl based, from
an auto parts store is phenomenally quick even with the British Stove Enamel that resists
anything else.

If you must abrade the finish, heed the admonition to avoid sand or metal grit blasting. Use glass
bead if you use anything.

And after your metal prep a primer is best. We like regular automotive grey primer-surfacers
wetsanded then sprayed a second time before the color .

If you want to show the brass work through a clear coat, you'll find all those finishes mildly
hydroscopic. The steel will rust right through the clear. Just polishing and oiling a steel frame
looks pretty sharp too, for a couple of days or even a week but without a well-bonded primer under
color you'll just watch it rust.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tilyou1 said:

I recently purchased a used Italian steel frame on eBay -- a circa 1991 Guerciotti. It's not
particularly fancy -- chrome fork and chain stays, but the rest is blue. The paint is almost
perfect and...

...I'd like to fix that -- by removing it. (I don't like the color, and I'm curious to see what a
frame looks like naked). My plan is to strip it myself, and then clearcoat it. Any sort of clear
finish that protects the frame will suit me fine. I'm not particularly gentle with my bikes, but I
don't leave 'em in the rain either.

1. Should I have this professionally done -- and if so, any suggestions about dipping,
sandblasting, etc. (I live in NYC)?

2. In researching this important issue I ran across the old newsgroup post (excerpted below)
which warns: "Don't use OLD stripper, a chemical reaction can cause hydrogen embritlement in
certain grades of steel."

So... what is "OLD" stripper?

3. Do I need "Metalprep(DX-579)" if I'm going to clearcoat? And clearcoat with what (ordinary
furniture grade acrylic?).

thanks in advance

- Charles

========== FROM AN OLD NEWSGROUP POST =============
2: Apply a good quality aircraft grade stripper such as Klean Strip (PPG) don't worry about the
stickers, they'll start to peel at the edges and will scrape right off. ( USE CAREFULLY - VERY
STRONG STUFF ) You might have to do this twice. Don't use OLD stripper, a chemical reaction
can cause hydrogen embritlement in certain grades of steel. Rinse well with water to remove
strippr. Lightly brush away any remaining paint flakes around lugs or fittings with a brass
bristle brush. OR GLASS bead blast away the remaining paint. ( there won't be much. ) Sand
blasting is pretty harsh for road grade lightweight tubing. (IMHO!!)

3: Now is the time to get that alignment or new braze-ons!!

4: This step is VERY IMPORTANT so pay attention. If it isa steel frame use Metalprep(DX-579) to
chemically prepare the surface for primer. If it is aluminum then use Alumiprep(DX-533) or
Alodine to prep the bare metal. If you skip this step on steel, well, you will get a mediocre
adhesion ( will chip easily ) if you skip this step on aluminum watch out!! Paint will chip
and flake away in weeks. ( No, I didn't try it, But we saw samples in Paint and Final Finish
School in the Navy )

===================
My other bike is a Masi Prestige dooded up by CycleArt & I will happily sell it. Another bike that
is too pretty for my taste. My other other bike is a 1976 Viscount. Not for sale.
([email hidden])

Quoted message said:

A product called "Aircraft paint stripper" , which is methyl based, from an auto parts store is
phenomenally quick even with the British Stove Enamel that resists anything else.

/aircraft.jpg"]http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/[censored]/aircraft.jpg

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

On 08 Feb 2004 07:27:07 GMT, [email hidden] (Tilyou1) may have

Quoted message said:

I recently purchased a used Italian steel frame on eBay -- a circa 1991 Guerciotti. It's not
particularly fancy -- chrome fork and chain stays, but the rest is blue. The paint is almost
perfect and...

And if the chainstays are chrome, it may be chrome under the blue as well. Given that, I would not
recommend any type of abrasive or blasting procedure for removal of the paint.

Quoted message said:

...I'd like to fix that -- by removing it. (I don't like the color, and I'm curious to see what a
frame looks like naked). My plan is to strip it myself, and then clearcoat it. Any sort of clear
finish that protects the frame will suit me fine. I'm not particularly gentle with my bikes, but I
don't leave 'em in the rain either.

Automotive clearcoat, which is used as a topcoat over both solid and metallic finishes, is perfect
for what you propose. It adheres to bare metal just fine. The good stuff is not sold in aerosol
spray cans, though, so you'll have to buy it from a professional automotive paint supplier and use a
spray gun to apply it...or you could yank your headset cups, mask the inside of the head tube and
BB, and get it sprayed with the good stuff at any auto paint shop. If you aren't in a hurry, and can
wait for them to spray it at the same time that they're spraying a car that needs it, you might even
get it done fairly cheap.

Quoted message said:

1. Should I have this professionally done -- and if so, any suggestions about dipping,
sandblasting, etc. (I live in NYC)?

From any Autozone store, and many other sources, you can get a brush-on pain stripper called
"Aircraft Remover" that will curdle the paint and lift it from the surface. The stuff's nasty on
skin, though, so buy several pairs of latex gloves to use (and throw away) as you work.

Quoted message said:

2. In researching this important issue I ran across the old newsgroup post (excerpted below) which
warns: "Don't use OLD stripper, a chemical reaction can cause hydrogen embritlement in certain
grades of steel."

News to me; I've never run across that, and hydrogen embrittlement is something I've seen in
industrial plant equipment a few times...but it shouldn't be a factor as far as I know in this
situation.

Quoted message said:

So... what is "OLD" stripper?

Beats me, without a chemical composition spec to look at.

Quoted message said:

3. Do I need "Metalprep(DX-579)" if I'm going to clearcoat? And clearcoat with what (ordinary
furniture grade acrylic?).

Wood finishes are for wood. See above for my recommendation for a finish.

The "Metalprep (DX579)" product is not familiar to me. It's a product made by PPG; they supply a
very good line of professional automotive paints and finishes which are widely used in the auto body
shop industry. If your frame is indeed chomed throughout, then merely getting the surface properly
stripped and degreased should be all the prep that's needed before clearcoat is applied...and while
it might not seem like clearcoating a chrome surface is really needed, it's also quite possible that
the chroming is fairly thin and porous, and may develop rust pitting without the clearcoat. With it,
you'll likely have a very attractive result....but if the chroming is only partial, then the "bare
metal" look won't be consistent throughout. This may or may not still produce an esthetically
pleasing result, and the only way to find out is to try. If the frame is not plated throughout, bear
in mind that it may begin to develop surface corrosion to some extent almost immediately upon
removal of the paint. Your working window from paint stripping to clearcoat application may be
short, and if surface corrosion happens, you may have to do some buffing to get shiny tubes. A
plating shop would charge the value of several appendages to chrome the whole thing, and might foul
the BB threads in the process. All of these are just considerations to keep in mind. Good luck.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

... From any Autozone store, and many other sources, you can get a brush-on pain stripper called
"Aircraft Remover" that will curdle the paint and lift it from the surface. The stuff's nasty on
skin, though, so buy several pairs of latex gloves to use (and throw away) as you work.

I would use nitrile rubber instead or latex gloves when working with any petroleum based solvent.
These are readily available at any safety supply outlet.

Quoted message said:

...and while it might not seem like clearcoating a chrome surface is really needed, it's also
quite possible that the chroming is fairly thin and porous, and may develop rust pitting without
the clearcoat...

I used to own a nickel plated bicycle [1] that developed several rust spots at pinholes in the
plating and along some of the welds.

[1] < liegeradinfo.dewisbone2.jpgOpen ↗ >.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:39:21 -0600, Tom Sherman

may have said:

Werehatrack said:

... From any Autozone store, and many other sources, you can get a brush-on pain stripper called
"Aircraft Remover" that will curdle the paint and lift it from the surface. The stuff's nasty on
skin, though, so buy several pairs of latex gloves to use (and throw away) as you work.

I would use nitrile rubber instead or latex gloves when working with any petroleum based solvent.
These are readily available at any safety supply outlet.

Good point, though they can be hard to find in some locales if you don't know who's selling safety
equipment as a sideline. Some paint stores probably have them, though.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Tom Sherman may have said:

Werehatrack said:

... From any Autozone store, and many other sources, you can get a brush-on pain stripper called
"Aircraft Remover" that will curdle the paint and lift it from the surface. The stuff's nasty on
skin, though, so buy several pairs of latex gloves to use (and throw away) as you work.

I would use nitrile rubber instead or latex gloves when working with any petroleum based solvent.
These are readily available at any safety supply outlet.

Good point, though they can be hard to find in some locales if you don't know who's selling safety
equipment as a sideline. Some paint stores probably have them, though.

There are also nitrile rubber medical gloves available. These are typically blue (latex gloves are
usually green or white) - no idea why these colors are used.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

Originally posted by Zeeexsixare

Quoted message said:

http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/[censored]/aircraft.jpg

Right, but what do you use if your aircraft really, really smells?

Sorry, I can resist posting to the "when do I replace my balls"
thread but this was just too much.

JLS

Tom Sherman said:

There are also nitrile rubber medical gloves available. These are typically blue (latex gloves are
usually green or white) - no idea why these colors are used.

I'm pretty sure that medical nitrile gloves are purple.

I think the colors are so we can have discussions like this...
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

Tom Sherman said:

There are also nitrile rubber medical gloves available. These are typically blue (latex gloves are
usually green or white) - no idea why these colors are used.

I'm pretty sure that medical nitrile gloves are purple....

All the nitrile rubber medical types gloves I have ever seen have been light blue.

Tom “worn these a few thousand times” Sherman - Quad Cities

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

And after your metal prep a primer is best. We like regular automotive grey primer-surfacers
wetsanded then sprayed a second time before the color .

If you want to show the brass work through a clear coat, you'll find all those finishes mildly
hydroscopic. The steel will rust right through the clear. Just polishing and oiling a steel frame
looks pretty sharp too, for a couple of days or even a week but without a well-bonded primer under
color you'll just watch it rust.

I've heard that steel rusts through clearcoat, too... but I have a lower head lug and tube stubs
that were brazed, blasted, and clearcoated a couple years ago. There's no evidence of rust at all.
Granted, it's never been outside, but you'd expect *something* to show up, wouldn't you?

(BTW: this is a chunk of downtube, headtube, and a Colnago lug that I brazed together back when
Match was conducting tours and demonstrations. After I got it put together and soaked the flux off,
it was blasted to completely clean it. When I got the assembly home, I sprayed it with Krylon
acrylic clear to preserve my handiwork.)

Jeff

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

Tom Sherman said:

There are also nitrile rubber medical gloves available. These are typically blue (latex gloves
are usually green or white) - no idea why these colors are used.

I'm pretty sure that medical nitrile gloves are purple....

All the nitrile rubber medical types gloves I have ever seen have been light blue.

Tom “worn these a few thousand times” Sherman - Quad Cities

Dear Tom,

Available in white and blue:

emeraldlatexgloves.comaboutgloves.htmOpen ↗

Described as purple:

infectioncontroltoday.com41h2683941.htmlOpen ↗

I'm waiting for plaid.

Carl Fogel

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

Tom Sherman said:

There are also nitrile rubber medical gloves available. These are typically blue (latex gloves
are usually green or white) - no idea why these colors are used.

I'm pretty sure that medical nitrile gloves are purple....

All the nitrile rubber medical types gloves I have ever seen have been light blue.

Tom “worn these a few thousand times” Sherman - Quad Cities

Dear Tom,

Available in white and blue:

emeraldlatexgloves.comaboutgloves.htmOpen ↗

Described as purple:

infectioncontroltoday.com41h2683941.htmlOpen ↗

I'm waiting for plaid.

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

...

Dear Carl,

You are stuttering at a 3-minute interval.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

read: DIY PAINT REMOVAL here in bike tech. use rusto white thinned and or linseed oil thinned inside
the frame.allow to dry. HOPTHOPT If the frame is unrusted that'll keep it. tape awnings of duck
tape, nashua 368 over the vent holes. try a linseed and never seize mix at the seat tube. The rusto
linseed, apply on a HOTHOT day avoiding dew point water vapor problems. Linseed tend to seal off
rust from oxygen and creates a very slow moving rust under the coat. Probable last your lifetime.
Especially since your in NYC.

Chemical removers areifn yawl excuse the expression:AHUGEPAININTHEARSE and shpould beavoided at all
costs including your lungs. and wear a mask when brushing. and do it out on the south forty so the
dust doesn't blow back into your kids lungs or your breakfast cereal