Strether Smith's letter

Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

From: Carlo Gardin Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM Subject:
Strether Smith's letter

I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum
than Strether Smith. On my planet, (Marin County), the
mountain bikers are invariably skidding desperately as
they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid
crashing into me as they ride illegally on trails where
they are forbidden. The 20-30 foot long skid marks they
leave are real attractive on the trails. Even on the fire
roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are
everywhere. Boy, that one percent of hazardous bikers sure
cover a lot of ground!

BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still
represents an infinite percentage increase of
dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no mtb's.

While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver
Grade (Yes, I am an mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of
4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple hiking ahead of
me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding side-by-
side, which also forced me to have to brake, even though I
had right-of-way and was about to pass the couple safely
and slowly.

I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so
people don't associate me with so many of you jerks who
don't know how to be considerate to other users and the
trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how
a speed of 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate
and terrorize others. The faster you go the more soil you
displace, it's not rocket science. If you want to go
faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's
only, otherwise, there will always be conflicts and bad
feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others, it's
because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
considerate, but clearly "education" doesn't work for most
riders, and who wants to have enforcement with dozens of
rangers on every trail?

Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride
on Mt. Tam.

Carlo

[email hidden]

What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a
damn decries the skidiots and discourteous fools on
mountain bikes.

JD

On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... .>
From: Carlo Gardin .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .> Subject:
Strether Smith's letter .> .> I guess I must live in a
different space-time continuum than Strether Smith. On .> my
planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably
skidding .> desperately as they attempt to slow to a
reasonable speed to avoid crashing .> into me as they ride
illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The 20-30 .>
foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the
trails. Even on the .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed,
the skid marks are everywhere. Boy, that .> one percent of
hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground! .> .> BTW, even
if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an
infinite .> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant
encounters over having no mtb's. .> .> While biking last
saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an .>
mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers
forced an older couple .> hiking ahead of me off the fire
road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side, .> which
also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-
way and was .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
.> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head
so people don't associate .> me with so many of you jerks
who don't know how to be considerate to other users .> and
the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize
how a speed of .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can
intimidate and terrorize others. The faster .> you go the
more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want
to go .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for
mtb's only, otherwise, there .> will always be conflicts and
bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others, .> it's
because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
considerate, but .> clearly "education" doesn't work for
most riders, and who wants to have .> enforcement with
dozens of rangers on every trail? .> .> Off my soap box, and
back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam. .> .> Carlo
.> .> .> [email hidden] . .What's your point, Zippy?
Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the .skidiots and
discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I
wonder why mountain bikers have such a hard time telling
the truth?

.JD

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... .>
From: Carlo Gardin .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .> Subject:
Strether Smith's letter .> .> I guess I must live in a
different space-time continuum than Strether Smith. On .>
my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are
invariably skidding .> desperately as they attempt to slow
to a reasonable speed to avoid crashing .> into me as they
ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The 20-
30 .> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive
on the trails. Even on the .> fire roads, where mtb's are
allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. Boy, that .> one
percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground! .>
.> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still
represents an infinite .> percentage increase of
dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no mtb's. .>
.> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver
Grade (Yes, I am an .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group
of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple .> hiking
ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding
side-by-side, .> which also forced me to have to brake,
even though I had right-of-way and was .> about to pass
the couple safely and slowly. .> .> I love biking, but I
want to wear a bag over my head so people don't associate
.> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be
considerate to other users .> and the trails. When you're
on a bike you simply don't realize how a speed of .> 15
mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize
others. The faster .> you go the more soil you displace,
it's not rocket science. If you want to go .> faster than
6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only,
otherwise, there .> will always be conflicts and bad
feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others, .> it's
because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
considerate, but .> clearly "education" doesn't work for
most riders, and who wants to have .> enforcement with
dozens of rangers on every trail? .> .> Off my soap box,
and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam. .> .>
Carlo .> .> .> [email hidden] . .What's your point,
Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
.skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I
wonder why mountain bikers have such a hard time telling
the truth?

I never lied about how many skidiots and discourteous fools
there are on mountain bikes. If I had a dollar for every
idiot I've seen on a mountain bike in the last 18 years, I'd
retire. Then again, if I had a dollar for every courteous
and respectful mountain biker I've encountered, I would have
retired about 12 years ago.

JD

On 29 Apr 2004 10:34:51 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... .> On
28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote: .>
.> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... .> .>
From: Carlo Gardin .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .> .>
Subject: Strether Smith's letter .> .> .> .> I guess I must
live in a different space-time continuum than Strether
Smith. On .> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain
bikers are invariably skidding .> .> desperately as they
attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid crashing .>
.> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are
forbidden. The 20-30 .> .> foot long skid marks they leave
are real attractive on the trails. Even on the .> .> fire
roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are
everywhere. Boy, that .> .> one percent of hazardous bikers
sure cover a lot of ground! .> .> .> .> BTW, even if it was
1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an infinite .>
.> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters
over having no mtb's. .> .> .> .> While biking last saturday
on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an .> .> mtb'r)
I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an
older couple .> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by
not slowing up and riding side-by-side, .> .> which also
forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way
and was .> .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly. .>
.> .> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my
head so people don't associate .> .> me with so many of you
jerks who don't know how to be considerate to other users .>
.> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't
realize how a speed of .> .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!)
can intimidate and terrorize others. The faster .> .> you go
the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you
want to go .> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a
park for mtb's only, otherwise, there .> .> will always be
conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt
others, .> .> it's because I can discipline myself to follow
rules and be considerate, but .> .> clearly "education"
doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to have .> .>
enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail? .> .> .>
.> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride
on Mt. Tam. .> .> .> .> Carlo .> .> .> .> .> .>
[email hidden] .> . .> .What's your point, Zippy? Any
mountain biker worth a damn decries the .> .skidiots and
discourteous fools on mountain bikes. .> .> Then don't LIE
about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
.> bikers have such a hard time telling the truth? . .I
never lied about how many skidiots and discourteous fools
there are .on mountain bikes.

I didn't say you did. Strether did.

If I had a dollar for every idiot I've seen on a .mountain
bike in the last 18 years, I'd retire. Then again, if I
had .a dollar for every courteous and respectful mountain
biker I've .encountered, I would have retired about 12
years ago. . .JD

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a
damn decries the .> .skidiots and discourteous fools on
mountain bikes. . .JD

That's why so many mountain bikers are not only damn
worthless but are the great destroyers of valuable property
of others. Terri Alvillar

Terri Alvillar said:

Quoted message said:

.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a
damn decries the .> .skidiots and discourteous fools on
mountain bikes. . .JD

That's why so many mountain bikers are not only damn
worthless but are the great destroyers of valuable
property of others. Terri Alvillar

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than
all the (other) flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the
quoted text, either" S.

Quoted message said:

mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers
forced an older couple hiking ahead of me off the fire
road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side,

Neon is just so last season dont you think?

cheers

G

" S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Terri Alvillar said:

Quoted message said:

.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth
a damn decries the .> .skidiots and discourteous fools
on mountain bikes. . .JD

That's why so many mountain bikers are not only damn
worthless but are the great destroyers of valuable
property of others. Terri Alvillar

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than
all the (other) flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the
quoted text, either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: Carlo Gardin Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM Subject:
Strether Smith's letter

I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum
than Strether

Smith. On

Quoted message said:

my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are
invariably skidding desperately as they attempt to slow to
a reasonable speed to avoid

crashing

Quoted message said:

into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are
forbidden. The

20-30

Quoted message said:

foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the
trails. Even

on the

Quoted message said:

fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are
everywhere. Boy,

that

Quoted message said:

one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of
ground!

BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still
represents an

infinite

Quoted message said:

percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters
over having no

mtb's.

Quoted message said:

While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver
Grade (Yes, I am an mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of
4 neon-clad bikers forced an older

couple

Quoted message said:

hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up
and riding

side-by-side,

Quoted message said:

which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had
right-of-way and

was

Quoted message said:

about to pass the couple safely and slowly.

I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so
people don't

associate

Quoted message said:

me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be
considerate to other

users

Quoted message said:

and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't
realize how a speed

of

Quoted message said:

15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and
terrorize others. The

faster

Quoted message said:

you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket
science. If you want to

go

Quoted message said:

faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's
only, otherwise,

there

Quoted message said:

will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride
and not disrupt

others,

Quoted message said:

it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and
be considerate,

but

Quoted message said:

clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and
who wants to have enforcement with dozens of rangers on
every trail?

Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride
on Mt. Tam.

Carlo

[email hidden]

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

You're a mountainbiker therefore you lie. Unless of course
you're hiking then you're a hiker who thinks about
mountainbikers who should be hiking. Unless it's you when
you bike then you're an innocent biker who would rather be
safely hiking.

My god John F'n Kerry could do any better.

Marty

Marty said:

Quoted message said:

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than
all the (other) flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the
quoted text, either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

Actually, it's not the spray itself but the propellants. And
they're present in the majority of spray cans, not matter
what the applicant may be. These propellants are more
destructive to ozone than methane.

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges. It's
really that simple. Walt Kelly

PMH said:

Marty said:

Quoted message said:

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone
than all the (other) flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the
quoted text, either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

Actually, it's not the spray itself but the propellants.
And they're present in the majority of spray cans, not
matter what the applicant may be. These propellants are
more destructive to ozone than methane.

Buzzkill much?

Bill "waitin' on Pete F. to post the pic" S.

PMH <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Marty said:

Quoted message said:

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone
than all the (other) flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the
quoted text, either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

Actually, it's not the spray itself but the propellants.
And they're present in the majority of spray cans, not
matter what the applicant may be.

<snip>

Actually, in the US the majority of propellants (for non
comercial purposes) no longer contain CFC's or other ozone
destroying substance. See:
epa.govq a.htmlOpen ↗

R

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

.> From: Carlo Gardin .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .>
Subject: Strether Smith's letter .> .> I guess I must live
in a different space-time continuum than Strether

Smith. On

Quoted message said:

.> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are
invariably skidding .> desperately as they attempt to slow
to a reasonable speed to avoid

crashing

Quoted message said:

.> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are
forbidden. The

20-30

Quoted message said:

.> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on
the trails.

Even on the

Quoted message said:

.> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are
everywhere.

Boy, that

Quoted message said:

.> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of
ground! .> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%)
that still represents an

infinite

Quoted message said:

.> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters
over having no

mtb's.

Quoted message said:

.> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular
Shaver Grade (Yes, I am

an

Quoted message said:

.> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad
bikers forced an

older couple

Quoted message said:

.> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up
and riding

side-by-side,

Quoted message said:

.> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I
had right-of-way

and was

Quoted message said:

.> about to pass the couple safely and slowly. .> .> I
love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so
people don't

associate

Quoted message said:

.> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be
considerate to

other users

Quoted message said:

.> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't
realize how a

speed of

Quoted message said:

.> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and
terrorize others. The

faster

Quoted message said:

.> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket
science. If you want

to go

Quoted message said:

.> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for
mtb's only,

otherwise, there

Quoted message said:

.> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can
ride and not

disrupt others,

Quoted message said:

.> it's because I can discipline myself to follow
rules and be

considerate, but

Quoted message said:

.> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and
who wants to

have

Quoted message said:

.> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail? .>
.> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant
ride on Mt. Tam. .> .> Carlo .> .> .>
[email hidden] . .What's your point, Zippy? Any
mountain biker worth a damn decries the .skidiots and
discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I
wonder why mountain bikers have such a hard time telling
the truth?

Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of
destruction you imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you
should try believing the truth that most of us care for the
surroundings we share with others.

Quoted message said:

.JD

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

. ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On 28
Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote: .> .>
.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:<[email hidden]>... .> .>
From: Carlo Gardin .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .> .>
Subject: Strether Smith's letter .> .> .> .> I guess I must
live in a different space-time continuum than Strether
.Smith. On .> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain
bikers are invariably skidding .> .> desperately as they
attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid .crashing .>
.> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are
forbidden. The .20-30 .> .> foot long skid marks they leave
are real attractive on the trails. .Even on the .> .> fire
roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are
everywhere. .Boy, that .> .> one percent of hazardous bikers
sure cover a lot of ground! .> .> .> .> BTW, even if it was
1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an .infinite .>
.> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters
over having no .mtb's. .> .> .> .> While biking last
saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am .an .>
.> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers
forced an .older couple .> .> hiking ahead of me off the
fire road by not slowing up and riding .side-by-side, .> .>
which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-
way .and was .> .> about to pass the couple safely and
slowly. .> .> .> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag
over my head so people don't .associate .> .> me with so
many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to
.other users .> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you
simply don't realize how a .speed of .> .> 15 mph (22 feet
per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The
.faster .> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not
rocket science. If you want .to go .> .> faster than 6 -8
mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, .otherwise,
there .> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I
can ride and not .disrupt others, .> .> it's because I can
discipline myself to follow rules and be .considerate, but
.> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and
who wants to .have .> .> enforcement with dozens of rangers
on every trail? .> .> .> .> Off my soap box, and back on my
bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam. .> .> .> .> Carlo .> .>
.> .> .> .> [email hidden] .> . .> .What's your
point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the .>
.skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes. .> .>
Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I
wonder why mountain .> bikers have such a hard time telling
the truth? .Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not
the souce of destruction you .imply them to be in your
OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth .that
most of us care for the surroundings we share with others.

Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary. CARING about the
environment doesn't imply PROTECTING it.

.> .> .JD .> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife
habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"😉.
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting auto
dependence and road construction.) .> .>
home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Mike Vandeman said:

On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22 -0400, "S Curtiss"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

. ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On
28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote: .>
.> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:<[email hidden]>... .>
.> From: Carlo Gardin .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .> .>
Subject: Strether Smith's letter .> .> .> .> I guess I
must live in a different space-time continuum than
Strether .Smith. On .> .> my planet, (Marin County), the
mountain bikers are invariably skidding .> .> desperately
as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid
.crashing .> .> into me as they ride illegally on trails
where they are forbidden. The .20-30 .> .> foot long skid
marks they leave are real attractive on the trails. .Even
on the .> .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid
marks are everywhere. .Boy, that .> .> one percent of
hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground! .> .> .> .>
BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still
represents an .infinite .> .> percentage increase of
dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no .mtb's. .>
.> .> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular
Shaver Grade (Yes, I am .an .> .> mtb'r) I was appalled
when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an .older couple
.> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing
up and riding .side-by-side, .> .> which also forced me to
have to brake, even though I had right-of-way .and was .>
.> about to pass the couple safely and slowly. .> .> .> .>
I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so
people don't .associate .> .> me with so many of you jerks
who don't know how to be considerate to .other users .> .>
and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't
realize how a .speed of .> .> 15 mph (22 feet per
second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The
.faster .> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not
rocket science. If you want .to go .> .> faster than 6 -8
mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, .otherwise,
there .> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If
I can ride and not .disrupt others, .> .> it's because I
can discipline myself to follow rules and be .considerate,
but .> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most
riders, and who wants to .have .> .> enforcement with
dozens of rangers on every trail? .> .> .> .> Off my soap
box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
.> .> .> .> Carlo .> .> .> .> .> .> [email hidden]
.> . .> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker
worth a damn decries the .> .skidiots and discourteous
fools on mountain bikes. .> .> Then don't LIE about how
many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain .>
bikers have such a hard time telling the truth? .Maybe the
truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of
destruction you .imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe
you should try believing the truth .that most of us care
for the surroundings we share with others.

Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary. CARING about the
environment doesn't imply PROTECTING it.

Calling people "liars" and "idiots" doesn't imply you have
any higher claim on intelligence, either. All mt bikers are
liars: OPINION Mt biking is by far the most destructive
activity allowed in our parks: OPINION Mt bikes kill
animals: OPINION Mt bikers are not interested in wildlife:
OPINION All mt bikers ride off trail, ride off-limits, and
ignore other park users: OPINION Mountain bikers CAN'T
read: OPINION

Quoted message said:

.> .> .JD .> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife
habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"😉.
Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting
auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗ .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Fri, 07 May 2004 08:31:39 -0400, Steve Curtiss <[email hidden]>
wrote:

. . .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22
-0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .
.> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> ."]news:[email hidden]... .> .>
On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:
.> .> .> .> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in
message .>
.news:<[email hidden]>... .> .>
.> From: Carlo Gardin .> .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM .>
.> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter .> .> .> .> .> .> I
guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than
Strether .> .Smith. On .> .> .> my planet, (Marin County),
the mountain bikers are invariably skidding .> .> .>
desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to
avoid .> .crashing .> .> .> into me as they ride illegally
on trails where they are forbidden. The .> .20-30 .> .> .>
foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the
trails. .> .Even on the .> .> .> fire roads, where mtb's are
allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. .> .Boy, that .> .>
.> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of
ground! .> .> .> .> .> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like
50-70%) that still represents an .> .infinite .> .> .>
percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over
having no .> .mtb's. .> .> .> .> .> .> While biking last
saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am .> .an
.> .> .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad
bikers forced an .> .older couple .> .> .> hiking ahead of
me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding .> .side-by-
side, .> .> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even
though I had right-of-way .> .and was .> .> .> about to pass
the couple safely and slowly. .> .> .> .> .> .> I love
biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people
don't .> .associate .> .> .> me with so many of you jerks
who don't know how to be considerate to .> .other users .>
.> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't
realize how a .> .speed of .> .> .> 15 mph (22 feet per
second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The .>
.faster .> .> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not
rocket science. If you want .> .to go .> .> .> faster than 6
-8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, .>
.otherwise, there .> .> .> will always be conflicts and bad
feelings. If I can ride and not .> .disrupt others, .> .> .>
it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
.> .considerate, but .> .> .> clearly "education" doesn't
work for most riders, and who wants to .> .have .> .> .>
enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail? .> .> .>
.> .> .> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant
ride on Mt. Tam. .> .> .> .> .> .> Carlo .> .> .> .> .> .>
.> .> .> [email hidden] .> .> . .> .> .What's your
point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the .>
.> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes. .> .>
.> .> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I
wonder why mountain .> .> bikers have such a hard time
telling the truth? .> .Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers
are not the souce of destruction you .> .imply them to be in
your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth .>
.that most of us care for the surroundings we share with
others. .> .> Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary.
CARING about the environment doesn't .> imply PROTECTING it.
. .Calling people "liars" and "idiots" doesn't imply you
have any higher claim on .intelligence, either. .All mt
bikers are liars: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt biking is by far the most destructive activity allowed
in our parks: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt bikes kill animals: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt bikers are not interested in wildlife: OPINION

No, FACT.

.All mt bikers ride off trail, ride off-limits, and ignore
other park users: .OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mountain bikers CAN'T read: OPINION

No, FACT.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Mike Vandeman said:

On Fri, 07 May 2004 08:31:39 -0400, Steve Curtiss
<[email hidden]> wrote:

. . .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22
-0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .
.> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> ."]news:[email hidden]... .>
.> On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD)
wrote: .> .> .> .> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
wrote in message .>
.news:<[email hidden]>... .>
.> .> From: Carlo Gardin .> .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
.> .> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter .> .> .> .> .>
.> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum
than Strether .> .Smith. On .> .> .> my planet, (Marin
County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding .> .>
.> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable
speed to avoid .> .crashing .> .> .> into me as they ride
illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The .> .20-
30 .> .> .> foot long skid marks they leave are real
attractive on the trails. .> .Even on the .> .> .> fire
roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are
everywhere. .> .Boy, that .> .> .> one percent of
hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground! .> .> .> .>
.> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that
still represents an .> .infinite .> .> .> percentage
increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no
.> .mtb's. .> .> .> .> .> .> While biking last saturday on
our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am .> .an .> .> .>
mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers
forced an .> .older couple .> .> .> hiking ahead of me off
the fire road by not slowing up and riding .> .side-by-
side, .> .> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even
though I had right-of-way .> .and was .> .> .> about to
pass the couple safely and slowly. .> .> .> .> .> .> I
love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so
people don't .> .associate .> .> .> me with so many of you
jerks who don't know how to be considerate to .> .other
users .> .> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you
simply don't realize how a .> .speed of .> .> .> 15 mph
(22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize
others. The .> .faster .> .> .> you go the more soil you
displace, it's not rocket science. If you want .> .to go
.> .> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park
for mtb's only, .> .otherwise, there .> .> .> will always
be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not .>
.disrupt others, .> .> .> it's because I can discipline
myself to follow rules and be .> .considerate, but .> .>
.> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and
who wants to .> .have .> .> .> enforcement with dozens of
rangers on every trail? .> .> .> .> .> .> Off my soap box,
and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam. .> .>
.> .> .> .> Carlo .> .> .> .> .> .> .> .> .>
[email hidden] .> .> . .> .> .What's your point,
Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the .> .>
.skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes. .> .>
.> .> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did!
I wonder why mountain .> .> bikers have such a hard time
telling the truth? .> .Maybe the truth is that ALL mt
bikers are not the souce of destruction you .> .imply them
to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the
truth .> .that most of us care for the surroundings we
share with others. .> .> Look up "nonsequitur" in the
dictionary. CARING about the environment doesn't .> imply
PROTECTING it. . .Calling people "liars" and "idiots"
doesn't imply you have any higher claim on .intelligence,
either. .All mt bikers are liars: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt biking is by far the most destructive activity allowed
in our parks: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt bikes kill animals: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt bikers are not interested in wildlife: OPINION

No, FACT.

.All mt bikers ride off trail, ride off-limits, and ignore
other park users: .OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mountain bikers CAN'T read: OPINION

No, FACT.

Nice rebuttal.... thanks for proving my point.

Quoted message said:

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗