Strether Smith's letter

Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

From: Carlo Gardin
Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
Subject: Strether Smith's letter

I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether Smith. On
my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid crashing
into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The 20-30
foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails. Even on the
fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. Boy, that
one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!

BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an infinite
percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no mtb's.

While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an
mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple
hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side,
which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way and was
about to pass the couple safely and slowly.

I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't associate
me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to other users
and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a speed of
15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The faster
you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want to go
faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, otherwise, there
will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others,
it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be considerate, but
clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to have
enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?

Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.

Carlo

[email hidden]

What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

JD

On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
..> From: Carlo Gardin
..> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
..> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
..>
..> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether Smith. On
..> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
..> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid crashing
..> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The 20-30
..> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails. Even on the
..> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. Boy, that
..> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
..>
..> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an infinite
..> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no mtb's.
..>
..> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an
..> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple
..> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side,
..> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way and was
..> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
..>
..> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't associate
..> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to other users
..> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a speed of
..> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The faster
..> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want to go
..> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, otherwise, there
..> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others,
..> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be considerate, but
..> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to have
..> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
..>
..> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
..>
..> Carlo
..>
..>
..> [email hidden]
..
..What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
..skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?

..JD

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
.> From: Carlo Gardin
.> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
.> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
.>
.> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether Smith. On
.> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
.> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid crashing
.> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The 20-30
.> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails. Even on the
.> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. Boy, that
.> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
.>
.> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an infinite
.> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no mtb's.
.>
.> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an
.> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple
.> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side,
.> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way and was
.> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
.>
.> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't associate
.> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to other users
.> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a speed of
.> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The faster
.> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want to go
.> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, otherwise, there
.> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others,
.> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be considerate, but
.> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to have
.> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
.>
.> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
.>
.> Carlo
.>
.>
.> [email hidden]
.
.What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
.skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?

I never lied about how many skidiots and discourteous fools there are
on mountain bikes. If I had a dollar for every idiot I've seen on a
mountain bike in the last 18 years, I'd retire. Then again, if I had
a dollar for every courteous and respectful mountain biker I've
encountered, I would have retired about 12 years ago.

JD

On 29 Apr 2004 10:34:51 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
..> On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
..> .> From: Carlo Gardin
..> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
..> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
..> .>
..> .> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether Smith. On
..> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
..> .> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid crashing
..> .> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The 20-30
..> .> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails. Even on the
..> .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. Boy, that
..> .> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
..> .>
..> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an infinite
..> .> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no mtb's.
..> .>
..> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an
..> .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple
..> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side,
..> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way and was
..> .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
..> .>
..> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't associate
..> .> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to other users
..> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a speed of
..> .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The faster
..> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want to go
..> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, otherwise, there
..> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt others,
..> .> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be considerate, but
..> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to have
..> .> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
..> .>
..> .> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
..> .>
..> .> Carlo
..> .>
..> .>
..> .> [email hidden]
..> .
..> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
..> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
..>
..> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
..> bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?
..
..I never lied about how many skidiots and discourteous fools there are
..on mountain bikes.

I didn't say you did. Strether did.

If I had a dollar for every idiot I've seen on a
..mountain bike in the last 18 years, I'd retire. Then again, if I had
..a dollar for every courteous and respectful mountain biker I've
..encountered, I would have retired about 12 years ago.
..
..JD

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Quoted message said:

.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
.> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
.
.JD

That's why so many mountain bikers are not only damn worthless but are
the great destroyers of valuable property of others.
Terri Alvillar

Terri Alvillar said:

Quoted message said:

.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn
decries the .> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
.
.JD

That's why so many mountain bikers are not only damn worthless but are
the great destroyers of valuable property of others.
Terri Alvillar

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than all the (other)
flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the quoted text,
either" S.

Quoted message said:

mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older couple
hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding side-by-side,

Neon is just so last season dont you think?

cheers

G

" S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Terri Alvillar said:

Quoted message said:

.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn
decries the .> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
.
.JD

That's why so many mountain bikers are not only damn worthless but are
the great destroyers of valuable property of others.
Terri Alvillar

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than all the (other)
flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the quoted text,
either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: Carlo Gardin
Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
Subject: Strether Smith's letter

I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether

Smith. On

Quoted message said:

my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid

crashing

Quoted message said:

into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The

20-30

Quoted message said:

foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails. Even

on the

Quoted message said:

fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere. Boy,

that

Quoted message said:

one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!

BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an

infinite

Quoted message said:

percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no

mtb's.

Quoted message said:

While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am an
mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an older

couple

Quoted message said:

hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding

side-by-side,

Quoted message said:

which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way and

was

Quoted message said:

about to pass the couple safely and slowly.

I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't

associate

Quoted message said:

me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to other

users

Quoted message said:

and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a speed

of

Quoted message said:

15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The

faster

Quoted message said:

you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want to

go

Quoted message said:

faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only, otherwise,

there

Quoted message said:

will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not disrupt

others,

Quoted message said:

it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be considerate,

but

Quoted message said:

clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to have
enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?

Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.

Carlo

[email hidden]

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

You're a mountainbiker therefore you lie. Unless of course you're hiking
then you're a hiker who thinks about mountainbikers who should be hiking.
Unless it's you when you bike then you're an innocent biker who would rather
be safely hiking.

My god John F'n Kerry could do any better.

Marty

Marty said:

Quoted message said:

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than all the (other)
flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the quoted text,
either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

Actually, it's not the spray itself but the propellants. And they're
present in the majority of spray cans, not matter what the applicant may
be. These propellants are more destructive to ozone than methane.

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges.
It's really that simple.
Walt Kelly

PMH said:

Marty said:

Quoted message said:

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than all the
(other) flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the quoted
text, either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

Actually, it's not the spray itself but the propellants. And they're
present in the majority of spray cans, not matter what the applicant
may be. These propellants are more destructive to ozone than methane.

Buzzkill much?

Bill "waitin' on Pete F. to post the pic" S.

PMH <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Marty said:

Quoted message said:

Terri, your hair spray alone has destroyed more ozone than all the (other)
flatulent cows on earth combined.

Bill "and, your comment makes no sense as a reply to the quoted text,
either" S.

Hairspray? OMG!

You just killed me.....................

Marty (still laughing)

Actually, it's not the spray itself but the propellants. And they're
present in the majority of spray cans, not matter what the applicant may
be.

<snip>

Actually, in the US the majority of propellants (for non comercial
purposes) no longer contain CFC's or other ozone destroying substance.
See: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/q_a.html

R

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

.> From: Carlo Gardin
.> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
.> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
.>
.> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether

Smith. On

Quoted message said:

.> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
.> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid

crashing

Quoted message said:

.> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The

20-30

Quoted message said:

.> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails.

Even on the

Quoted message said:

.> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere.

Boy, that

Quoted message said:

.> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
.>
.> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an

infinite

Quoted message said:

.> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no

mtb's.

Quoted message said:

.>
.> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am

an

Quoted message said:

.> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an

older couple

Quoted message said:

.> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding

side-by-side,

Quoted message said:

.> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way

and was

Quoted message said:

.> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
.>
.> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't

associate

Quoted message said:

.> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to

other users

Quoted message said:

.> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a

speed of

Quoted message said:

.> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The

faster

Quoted message said:

.> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want

to go

Quoted message said:

.> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only,

otherwise, there

Quoted message said:

.> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not

disrupt others,

Quoted message said:

.> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be

considerate, but

Quoted message said:

.> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to

have

Quoted message said:

.> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
.>
.> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
.>
.> Carlo
.>
.>
.> [email hidden]
.
.What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
.skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.

Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?

Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of destruction you
imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth
that most of us care for the surroundings we share with others.

Quoted message said:

.JD

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:[email hidden]...
..> On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..news:<[email hidden]>...
..> .> From: Carlo Gardin
..> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
..> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
..> .>
..> .> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether
..Smith. On
..> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
..> .> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid
..crashing
..> .> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The
..20-30
..> .> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails.
..Even on the
..> .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere.
..Boy, that
..> .> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
..> .>
..> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an
..infinite
..> .> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no
..mtb's.
..> .>
..> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am
..an
..> .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an
..older couple
..> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding
..side-by-side,
..> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way
..and was
..> .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
..> .>
..> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't
..associate
..> .> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to
..other users
..> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a
..speed of
..> .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The
..faster
..> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want
..to go
..> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only,
..otherwise, there
..> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not
..disrupt others,
..> .> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
..considerate, but
..> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to
..have
..> .> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
..> .>
..> .> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
..> .>
..> .> Carlo
..> .>
..> .>
..> .> [email hidden]
..> .
..> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
..> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
..>
..> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
..> bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?
..Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of destruction you
..imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth
..that most of us care for the surroundings we share with others.

Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary. CARING about the environment doesn't
imply PROTECTING it.

..>
..> .JD
..>
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman said:

On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.
."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:[email hidden]...
.> On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:
.>
.> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.news:<[email hidden]>...
.> .> From: Carlo Gardin
.> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
.> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
.> .>
.> .> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether
.Smith. On
.> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
.> .> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid
.crashing
.> .> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The
.20-30
.> .> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails.
.Even on the
.> .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere.
.Boy, that
.> .> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
.> .>
.> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an
.infinite
.> .> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no
.mtb's.
.> .>
.> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am
.an
.> .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an
.older couple
.> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding
.side-by-side,
.> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way
.and was
.> .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
.> .>
.> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't
.associate
.> .> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to
.other users
.> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a
.speed of
.> .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The
.faster
.> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want
.to go
.> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only,
.otherwise, there
.> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not
.disrupt others,
.> .> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
.considerate, but
.> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to
.have
.> .> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
.> .>
.> .> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
.> .>
.> .> Carlo
.> .>
.> .>
.> .> [email hidden]
.> .
.> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
.> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
.>
.> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
.> bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?
.Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of destruction you
.imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth
.that most of us care for the surroundings we share with others.

Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary. CARING about the environment doesn't
imply PROTECTING it.

Calling people "liars" and "idiots" doesn't imply you have any higher claim on
intelligence, either.
All mt bikers are liars: OPINION
Mt biking is by far the most destructive activity allowed in our parks: OPINION
Mt bikes kill animals: OPINION
Mt bikers are not interested in wildlife: OPINION
All mt bikers ride off trail, ride off-limits, and ignore other park users:
OPINION
Mountain bikers CAN'T read: OPINION

Quoted message said:

.>
.> .JD
.>
.> ===
.> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
.> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
.>
.> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Fri, 07 May 2004 08:31:39 -0400, Steve Curtiss <[email hidden]>
wrote:

..
..
..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
..> On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email hidden]...
..> .> On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..> .news:<[email hidden]>...
..> .> .> From: Carlo Gardin
..> .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
..> .> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
..> .> .>
..> .> .> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether
..> .Smith. On
..> .> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
..> .> .> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid
..> .crashing
..> .> .> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The
..> .20-30
..> .> .> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails.
..> .Even on the
..> .> .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere.
..> .Boy, that
..> .> .> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
..> .> .>
..> .> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an
..> .infinite
..> .> .> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no
..> .mtb's.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am
..> .an
..> .> .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an
..> .older couple
..> .> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding
..> .side-by-side,
..> .> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way
..> .and was
..> .> .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't
..> .associate
..> .> .> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to
..> .other users
..> .> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a
..> .speed of
..> .> .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The
..> .faster
..> .> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want
..> .to go
..> .> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only,
..> .otherwise, there
..> .> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not
..> .disrupt others,
..> .> .> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
..> .considerate, but
..> .> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to
..> .have
..> .> .> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Carlo
..> .> .>
..> .> .>
..> .> .> [email hidden]
..> .> .
..> .> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
..> .> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
..> .>
..> .> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
..> .> bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?
..> .Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of destruction you
..> .imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth
..> .that most of us care for the surroundings we share with others.
..>
..> Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary. CARING about the environment doesn't
..> imply PROTECTING it.
..
..Calling people "liars" and "idiots" doesn't imply you have any higher claim on
..intelligence, either.
..All mt bikers are liars: OPINION

No, FACT.

..Mt biking is by far the most destructive activity allowed in our parks: OPINION

No, FACT.

..Mt bikes kill animals: OPINION

No, FACT.

..Mt bikers are not interested in wildlife: OPINION

No, FACT.

..All mt bikers ride off trail, ride off-limits, and ignore other park users:
..OPINION

No, FACT.

..Mountain bikers CAN'T read: OPINION

No, FACT.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman said:

On Fri, 07 May 2004 08:31:39 -0400, Steve Curtiss <[email hidden]>
wrote:

.
.
.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.
.> On Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:22 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:
.>
.> .
.> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> .news:[email hidden]...
.> .> On 28 Apr 2004 10:26:43 -0700, [email hidden] (JD) wrote:
.> .>
.> .> .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
.> .news:<[email hidden]>...
.> .> .> From: Carlo Gardin
.> .> .> Sent: 4/25/04 6:03:26 AM
.> .> .> Subject: Strether Smith's letter
.> .> .>
.> .> .> I guess I must live in a different space-time continuum than Strether
.> .Smith. On
.> .> .> my planet, (Marin County), the mountain bikers are invariably skidding
.> .> .> desperately as they attempt to slow to a reasonable speed to avoid
.> .crashing
.> .> .> into me as they ride illegally on trails where they are forbidden. The
.> .20-30
.> .> .> foot long skid marks they leave are real attractive on the trails.
.> .Even on the
.> .> .> fire roads, where mtb's are allowed, the skid marks are everywhere.
.> .Boy, that
.> .> .> one percent of hazardous bikers sure cover a lot of ground!
.> .> .>
.> .> .> BTW, even if it was 1%, (more like 50-70%) that still represents an
.> .infinite
.> .> .> percentage increase of dangerous/unpleasant encounters over having no
.> .mtb's.
.> .> .>
.> .> .> While biking last saturday on our very popular Shaver Grade (Yes, I am
.> .an
.> .> .> mtb'r) I was appalled when a group of 4 neon-clad bikers forced an
.> .older couple
.> .> .> hiking ahead of me off the fire road by not slowing up and riding
.> .side-by-side,
.> .> .> which also forced me to have to brake, even though I had right-of-way
.> .and was
.> .> .> about to pass the couple safely and slowly.
.> .> .>
.> .> .> I love biking, but I want to wear a bag over my head so people don't
.> .associate
.> .> .> me with so many of you jerks who don't know how to be considerate to
.> .other users
.> .> .> and the trails. When you're on a bike you simply don't realize how a
.> .speed of
.> .> .> 15 mph (22 feet per second!!!) can intimidate and terrorize others. The
.> .faster
.> .> .> you go the more soil you displace, it's not rocket science. If you want
.> .to go
.> .> .> faster than 6 -8 mph, you have to build a park for mtb's only,
.> .otherwise, there
.> .> .> will always be conflicts and bad feelings. If I can ride and not
.> .disrupt others,
.> .> .> it's because I can discipline myself to follow rules and be
.> .considerate, but
.> .> .> clearly "education" doesn't work for most riders, and who wants to
.> .have
.> .> .> enforcement with dozens of rangers on every trail?
.> .> .>
.> .> .> Off my soap box, and back on my bike for a pleasant ride on Mt. Tam.
.> .> .>
.> .> .> Carlo
.> .> .>
.> .> .>
.> .> .> [email hidden]
.> .> .
.> .> .What's your point, Zippy? Any mountain biker worth a damn decries the
.> .> .skidiots and discourteous fools on mountain bikes.
.> .>
.> .> Then don't LIE about how many there are, as she did! I wonder why mountain
.> .> bikers have such a hard time telling the truth?
.> .Maybe the truth is that ALL mt bikers are not the souce of destruction you
.> .imply them to be in your OPINIONS. Maybe you should try believing the truth
.> .that most of us care for the surroundings we share with others.
.>
.> Look up "nonsequitur" in the dictionary. CARING about the environment doesn't
.> imply PROTECTING it.
.
.Calling people "liars" and "idiots" doesn't imply you have any higher claim on
.intelligence, either.
.All mt bikers are liars: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt biking is by far the most destructive activity allowed in our parks: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt bikes kill animals: OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mt bikers are not interested in wildlife: OPINION

No, FACT.

.All mt bikers ride off trail, ride off-limits, and ignore other park users:
.OPINION

No, FACT.

.Mountain bikers CAN'T read: OPINION

No, FACT.

Nice rebuttal.... thanks for proving my point.

Quoted message said:

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande