stressed rear wheel.

I would have thought that what you had was adequate - I've put many many fully loaded km, and many less loaded km, on a 395gm 17mm rim (Araya RM-17). I weigh ~88kg and my gear would total >20kg on a heavy steel bike.
If you want redundance, get Mavic 719 or Velocity Deep V and have it laced 3x with 36 spokes.

vinyl_theif said:

[font=Arial]Hi. I need to find what the ideal maximum weight should be carried on a rear wheel when touring. [/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]Last year I bought a new pair of 26" Mavic 317 rims/wheels for a bike tour from north France (Le Havre) to Barcelona in Spain (then ferry to Majorca). [/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]My weight is 82Kg.[/font]
[font=Arial]Bicycle is a steel frame Raleigh mountain bike.[/font]
[font=Arial]Luggage, including rack & panniers was 15Kg, so this did not seem too bad (in my opinion)[/font]
[font=Arial]At the start of the trip I fitted Specialized 26 * 1 slick tyres, pumped up to 85psi.[/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]I was riding for aprox 6 to 7 hours daily, covering 85 miles per day. [/font]
[font=Arial]On the seventh day, at the start of the Pyrenees crossing, I realised i had a problem & couldn't believe it when inspection showed the rim was rubbing on the break pads, closer inspection revealed that a spoke eyelit had 'strained' itself through the rim, obviously causing the rim to buckle, also several other eyelits had small cracks appearing either side of the hole!! Fortunately I made it to Barcelona (then the ferry to Majorca).[/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]On returning home I was informed by an independent bike shop other than who I bought the wheels [ EVANS..bad after sales service! ] that the spokes were tensioned too tight, which would make sense of my problem.[/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]I work in the NDT (non destructive test) industry & I am aware [/font][font=Arial]that any material under sufficient load becomes stressed, the amount of 'ride time' increasing stress levels further. My question is what is the recommend maximum rear rack load, taking body weight into account & what rear wheel would be better for touring????[/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
[font=Arial]Thanks in advance for any help.[/font]
[font=Arial]Mark.:o [/font]

Were you using straight 14 g spokes?
Were all the cracks on the drive side spoke holes?
Can you put part of the load up front?
14/15 DB will help spread the load. 36 spokes for the rear is also a good idea for carrying the extra load. Stronger rims like Velocity Deep V or Psycho would also help.
You might also want to go for 1.25 - 1.5 wide tires to help cushion the ride a little more.
Some rims crack easier than others (even within the same model). Unforunately NDT won't tell you ahead of time which ones will hold up and which ones won't.
I build a lot of wheels for touring, cross, and heavy riders. My own 26" touring bicyle has Mavic D521 36 spoke wheels that I have used to cross the USA 3 times. They are heavy but I have never needed to true them in 3 years.

[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman][/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Hi David, thanks for reply;[/font][/font]
[font=Times New Roman]---------------[/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Were you using straight 14 g spokes?[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Must admit, as long as i've been riding it was the first time I'd bought new wheels intended for a sole purpose, long distance touring, & naively overlooked any advantages between different spoke types & questions were not asked as to what ones were actually fitted, but being a Mavic wheel I presumed I was buying a reasonably high quality product. Part of life's learning curve i guess.
Were all the cracks on the drive side spoke holes? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]The wheel has since been exchanged & have no pics to check what side they were from but the cracks were all in-line with wheel circumference , i.e pointing to the spokes either side.
Can you put part of the load up front?[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Carrying only 15kg (including rack & panniers) i pressumed this would not cause a problem, reading before i left on websites how much other cyclist's had carried.
14/15 DB will help spread the load. 36 spokes for the rear is also a good idea for carrying the extra load. Stronger rims like Velocity Deep V or Psycho would also help.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I'll look into this, the other chap who replied recommended these.
You might also want to go for 1.25 - 1.5 wide tires to help cushion the ride a little more.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I chose the 1.0" tyres (tires) to reduce friction & road tested a pair for 5 months prior departure & had no puncture's, so felt reassured with this in mind.
Some rims crack easier than others (even within the same model). Unforunately NDT won't tell you ahead of time which ones will hold up and which ones won't.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Oh sure, I was just implying I understand the longer a component is 'cycled' with a load applied that the sooner it will reach yield point & component failure becomes irreversible, we use a patented method of ACFM for crack detection & monitoring, on oil rigs, pipelines, bridges etc)..think we should develop a bicycle rim inspection probe![/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I build a lot of wheels for touring, cross, and heavy riders. My own 26" touring bicyle has Mavic D521 36 spoke wheels that I have used to cross the USA 3 times. They are heavy but I have never needed to true them in 3 years.[/font]
__________________
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL USA
So your in route 66 land? I'm planning to do it next year, surely you have rode this then, living almost at the start of it?? If so, I could do with a contact in that neck of the woods!..i've just received my Rand McNally folding state maps via a customer we have in Houston, but any info / advice from riders who have done this would be great.....

I've been looking into purchasing a Koga Miyata, either the World or Globe Traveller for that trip, my Raleigh has served me well, & should serve me well this year (wheel permitting), but time for an upgrade I think!

Thanks for the advice. be graet for any Route 66 info..
Mark.
[/font]

vinyl_theif said:

[font=Arial]Hi. I need to find what the ideal maximum weight should be carried on a rear wheel when touring. [/font]

[font=Arial]Last year I bought a new pair of 26" Mavic 317 rims/wheels for a bike tour from north France (Le Havre) to Barcelona in Spain (then ferry to Majorca). [/font]

[font=Arial]My weight is 82Kg.[/font]
[font=Arial]Bicycle is a steel frame Raleigh mountain bike.[/font]
[font=Arial]Luggage, including rack & panniers was 15Kg, so this did not seem too bad (in my opinion)[/font]
[font=Arial]At the start of the trip I fitted Specialized 26 * 1 slick tyres, pumped up to 85psi.[/font]

[font=Arial]I was riding for aprox 6 to 7 hours daily, covering 85 miles per day. [/font]
[font=Arial]On the seventh day, at the start of the Pyrenees crossing, I realised i had a problem & couldn't believe it when inspection showed the rim was rubbing on the break pads, closer inspection revealed that a spoke eyelit had 'strained' itself through the rim, obviously causing the rim to buckle, also several other eyelits had small cracks appearing either side of the hole!! Fortunately I made it to Barcelona (then the ferry to Majorca).[/font]

[font=Arial]On returning home I was informed by an independent bike shop other than who I bought the wheels [ EVANS..bad after sales service! ] that the spokes were tensioned too tight, which would make sense of my problem.[/font]

[font=Arial]I work in the NDT (non destructive test) industry & I am aware [/font][font=Arial]that any material under sufficient load becomes stressed, the amount of 'ride time' increasing stress levels further. My question is what is the recommend maximum rear rack load, taking body weight into account & what rear wheel would be better for touring????[/font]

[font=Arial]Thanks in advance for any help.[/font]
[font=Arial]Mark.:o [/font]

I presume the MAVIC 317 like the MAVIC 517 ... a fairly lightweight rim, IMO.

For loaded touring, I would recommend SUN RHYNOLITE rims ... I think they come in two widths ... if they are good enough for downhillers -- there are certainly OTHER/(probably, "better"/beefier) DH rims to consider -- they should be strong enough for loaded touring.

I think the maximum weight SOME racks can hold is 40 lbs ... which is a lot ... that's the recommended maximum I recall for the Blackburn Expedition (?) ... maybe, it was less.

I'll just echo what others have suggested, if you plan to carry a lot, then you should consider a trailer.

40 spoke wheels would be requisite for 700c; but, since you are using 26" wheels, 36h should be "okay" IF you are using the proper rim!

vinyl_theif said:

[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman][/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]You might also want to go for 1.25 - 1.5 wide tires to help cushion the ride a little more.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I chose the 1.0" tyres (tires) to reduce friction & road tested a pair for 5 months prior departure & had no puncture's, so felt reassured with this in mind.
[/font][/font]

I concur with the fatter tire -- the greater volume of air will cushion the road shock.

vinyl_theif said:

[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman][/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Hi David, thanks for reply;[/font][/font]
[font=Times New Roman]---------------[/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Were you using straight 14 g spokes?[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Must admit, as long as i've been riding it was the first time I'd bought new wheels intended for a sole purpose, long distance touring, & naively overlooked any advantages between different spoke types & questions were not asked as to what ones were actually fitted, but being a Mavic wheel I presumed I was buying a reasonably high quality product. Part of life's learning curve i guess.
Were all the cracks on the drive side spoke holes? [/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]The wheel has since been exchanged & have no pics to check what side they were from but the cracks were all in-line with wheel circumference , i.e pointing to the spokes either side.
Can you put part of the load up front?[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Carrying only 15kg (including rack & panniers) i pressumed this would not cause a problem, reading before i left on websites how much other cyclist's had carried.
14/15 DB will help spread the load. 36 spokes for the rear is also a good idea for carrying the extra load. Stronger rims like Velocity Deep V or Psycho would also help.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I'll look into this, the other chap who replied recommended these.
You might also want to go for 1.25 - 1.5 wide tires to help cushion the ride a little more.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I chose the 1.0" tyres (tires) to reduce friction & road tested a pair for 5 months prior departure & had no puncture's, so felt reassured with this in mind.
Some rims crack easier than others (even within the same model). Unforunately NDT won't tell you ahead of time which ones will hold up and which ones won't.[/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]Oh sure, I was just implying I understand the longer a component is 'cycled' with a load applied that the sooner it will reach yield point & component failure becomes irreversible, we use a patented method of ACFM for crack detection & monitoring, on oil rigs, pipelines, bridges etc)..think we should develop a bicycle rim inspection probe![/font][/font]
[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]I build a lot of wheels for touring, cross, and heavy riders. My own 26" touring bicyle has Mavic D521 36 spoke wheels that I have used to cross the USA 3 times. They are heavy but I have never needed to true them in 3 years.[/font]
__________________
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL USA
So your in route 66 land? I'm planning to do it next year, surely you have rode this then, living almost at the start of it?? If so, I could do with a contact in that neck of the woods!..i've just received my Rand McNally folding state maps via a customer we have in Houston, but any info / advice from riders who have done this would be great.....

I've been looking into purchasing a Koga Miyata, either the World or Globe Traveller for that trip, my Raleigh has served me well, & should serve me well this year (wheel permitting), but time for an upgrade I think!

Thanks for the advice. be graet for any Route 66 info..
Mark.
[/font]

Koga Miyata bicycles are very good.
I would still check over the wheels... and for that matter everything else on the bicycle. In the rear wheel, the drive side spokes carry most of the load.
More spokes (like 36 instead of 32) means that the dynamic loads are spread over more spokes & spoke holes.
The difference in rolling resistance between a 1.4 in and 1 inch tire is quite small. The difference in shock absorption makes up for it in my opinion. Different manufacturers and models have significant differnces in all the features and benefits for touring applications. I took the 1.75 inch tire with 40 spoke Deep V wheel from our touring tandem to try in my single toruing bicycle. I could not tell the difference in ride feel until I went over a very bad section of road. The additional cushioning made it easier to ride.
I have ridden parts of Route 66 (Lots of memoribilia stops and tourist in cars and motorcycles), but I now mostly stay with Adventure Cycling routes... and some others that are printed up in bicycle touring books.
I used to do longer linear tours mostly trans-America, southern or northern Adventure Cycle routes. They are very well documented and most of the stores, campsites, and other services along the way see lots of cyclist and are prepared to meet most standard needs. Another potential benefit is finding other touring riders to swap stories and ride along (time varies from minutes to days).
I now prefer shorter circular (or at least beginning and ending at the same place). Routes around some parts of the Great Lakes are very interesting. As an example: Chicago to Luddington to Chicago, along routes close to Lake Michigan and including Door County and the Upper Peninsula. (sp?). I take time to talk with local cyclist along the way to get insights on things to see and routes to take/avoid. The river the separates Wisconsin from U P Michigan is a nice ride on either side... and it adds ~40 miles of riding with virtually no cross traffic. My last tour "around" Lake Michigan was over 1,000 miles because I took many of the suggested "sidetrips". (I will go 100 miles out of my way to avoid industrial towns/areas like Muskegon, Michigan.)
You can get some great views (Lighthouse, waterfalls, cliffs, rock formations, interesting beaches, etc.) and very light traffic on some of the peninsulas in Michigan (both Lake Michigan and Lake Supeior that I know of.)

vinyl_theif said:

[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman][/font][/font] [font=Arial]be graet for any Route 66 info..
[/font]

I've driven most of Route 66 from Chicago to Barstow (where I believe it ends).

Illinois is FLAT.

Missouri is ROLLING ...

Oklahoma is FLAT.

Texas Panhandle is FLAT.

New Mexico is ROLLING, FLAT, UPHILL, FLAT, ROLLING

Arizona is FLAT, ROLLING, & mostly DOWNHILL after Flagstaff. The Grand Canyon is ~60 miles north of Flagstaff (return through Williams which is almost due-South of the Canyon's main Southern entrance) ... the road is mostly FLAT to the Canyon. Flagstaff is at about 7000 feet elevation ... the Canyon's South Rim is at about 7000 feet elevation.

It will be WINDY in the Springtime.

It will be HOT in the Summertime.

Bring a pair of goggles which will fit over your regular eyewear + a disposable dust mask(s) ... you'll thank me later!

Anticipate needing more water & sunscreen than you might imagine.

Most of Route 66 in Illinois should be FLAT until you get close to the Mississippi River.

A more interesting route through Illinois would be to go along the Illinois River ... you will encounter more towns ... the elevation change is downhill from about 600 (?) feet above sea level to whatever (300 feet?) when you get to around Alton (north of St. Louis on the Illinois side of the River).

The "FLAT" sections west of the Mississippi are likely to be false flats as you are headed toward the Continental Divide in western New Mexico (above 7000 feet).

You should anticipate a 30ºF AIR temperature swing between day-and-night once you get above 5000 feet elevation, so if you are camping out, you'll want the warmest, non-Winter bag you can carry ... a sleeping bag rated to 40ºF/5ºC is probably not going to be too warm EVEN IF the overnight air temps are in the 60s (just trust me on this if you haven't done "backcountry" backpacking). From 5000 feet & above, you have to figure the Summer sun could add another 20ºF apparent temp.

Bring a compass.

alfeng said:

I've driven most of Route 66 from Chicago to Barstow (where I believe it ends).

Illinois is FLAT.

Missouri is ROLLING ...

Oklahoma is FLAT.

Texas Panhandle is FLAT.

New Mexico is ROLLING, FLAT, UPHILL, FLAT, ROLLING

Arizona is FLAT, ROLLING, & mostly DOWNHILL after Flagstaff. The Grand Canyon is ~60 miles north of Flagstaff (return through Williams which is almost due-South of the Canyon's main Southern entrance) ... the road is mostly FLAT to the Canyon. Flagstaff is at about 7000 feet elevation ... the Canyon's South Rim is at about 7000 feet elevation.

It will be WINDY in the Springtime.

It will be HOT in the Summertime.

Bring a pair of goggles which will fit over your regular eyewear + a disposable dust mask(s) ... you'll thank me later!

Anticipate needing more water & sunscreen than you might imagine.

Most of Route 66 in Illinois should be FLAT until you get close to the Mississippi River.

A more interesting route through Illinois would be to go along the Illinois River ... you will encounter more towns ... the elevation change is downhill from about 600 (?) feet above sea level to whatever (300 feet?) when you get to around Alton (north of St. Louis on the Illinois side of the River).

The "FLAT" sections west of the Mississippi are likely to be false flats as you are headed toward the Continental Divide in western New Mexico (above 7000 feet).

You should anticipate a 30ºF AIR temperature swing between day-and-night once you get above 5000 feet elevation, so if you are camping out, you'll want the warmest, non-Winter bag you can carry ... a sleeping bag rated to 40ºF/5ºC is probably not going to be too warm EVEN IF the overnight air temps are in the 60s (just trust me on this if you haven't done "backcountry" backpacking). From 5000 feet & above, you have to figure the Summer sun could add another 20ºF apparent temp.

Bring a compass.

I agree with everything he said.
I started my first Route 66 ride in 1960 from Barstow, CA.
I rode to Flagstaff, AZ detoured to Grand Canyon and went back down to catch the train in AZ.
I like parts of the riding near/along the Illinois River but it is an old road and even though it isn't good for RVs you find many them.
If you want to train for wind and heat + hours of very hot direct sunlight this would be a good route. (Oh yes, I almost forgot about the dust!)
As for me I like the "tunnel of tress" along county roads in northern Michigan.

alfeng said:

I presume the MAVIC 317 like the MAVIC 517 ... a fairly lightweight rim, IMO.

The 317 is the cheaper 17mm rim, the 517, as I understand it, became the 717. The 517/717 is the more expensive version. Whether more durable, I don't know.