Strengthening Legs / Bike Selection

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by kennykill [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Hello Cycle Gods, and other mere mortals 😄

I've just joined the cycling fraternity and looking to get into shape asap. I've jumped into the deep end and signed up for an adventure race that contains a couple of good cycle sections! I've never cycled competitively before and looking for some conditioning advice, along with a bike selection.

1) Leg Strength
I've joined a spin class over the last couple of weeks to get the feel of being on a bike and I've noticed afterwards that my legs feel weak, the jelly legs feeling. During the class, generally early on, I feel the burn in my thighs. I was wondering if I can do anything to off-bike to strengthen my legs? Coming from a rugby background, as part of a gym schedule we would do squats, lunges, leg curls, etc. I'm wondering if this would be a viable routine to work on leg strength or would you recommend clocking up the mileage on the bike instead of a weights program? I would be of the opinion that the leg movement during cycling would be dynamic and doing compound workouts as apposed to specific muscle workouts might be key here. I have exactly 58 days until the Adventure Race so I need to move quickly to build up my legs!! [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]

If you think about it carefully... There aren't many ways to distinguish lack of leg strength from lack of leg endurance, I mean from a feeling perspective. In both case, you feel like coming short on the Strength side.

An example? As a former Rugby player, you did squats. Say I'm asking you to perform 50squats with a plate on each side. Say that you reach your point of failure after 37reps. The feeling you get then is as if you were lacking some strength. You're no longer strong enough to perform some more reps. But in this case, what you're lacking is Leg Muscle endurance, not strength.

In a spinning session, we seldom count the number of pedal cycles prior experiencing this *lack of strength* feeling. I'm sure it's more than 50.

So sorry, no short cut to cycling fitness. It's a mostly aerobic activity that relies mostly on your aerobic endurance.

At your level, leg strength has probably very very little to do with the outcome.

Finally, since it's worth mentioning... Usually, rubbish sensations early into a session may indicate a certain level of carried over fatigue. It *may*.

The best way to train the muscles you plan to use is by using them while you train. Do some force-type workouts on the bike and you are guaranteed to target the correct muscle groups. Ride more.

Bike selection - simple, buy one that fits. At the end of the day for 90+% of the people that ride, having a bike that truely fits well out trumps all the carbon goodies that money could every buy. Unless you're a skinny whippet I wouldn't worry about an extra pound or two of bike weight and if you're worried about the big limiting factor - aerodynamics - then the rider adds more drag than the bike, so again, a bike that fits is where it's at.

People who go to spin classes should be banned from answering questions in Training forums for obvious reasons. Such activities serve no purpose other than perving at the hot chick in front of you getting sweaty in all the right places.

Whats wrong with spin? Sure beats the pants off of riding a trainer in the closet during the winter months. With the right instructor, it can be a pretty effective cycling workout.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

People who go to spin classes should be banned from answering questions in Training forums for obvious reasons.

Dang it!!...I was so hoping to chime in on this discussion only to find out I am excluded.

[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by maydog [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Whats wrong with spin? Sure beats the pants off of riding a trainer in the closet during the winter months. With the right instructor, it can be a pretty effective cycling workout.

What's right with spin other than the aforementioned hotties that may be present?

You can either do something that looks hard or you can do something that is hard and gets the job done right. If looking good and being fairly in-shape are your goals then fine, spin might cut the mustard but for everything else cycling it's not gonna get you that far. You might as well redefine FTP as Fluffing The Pom-Poms before you take your "toned legs" cheerleading.

Being on the trainer beats spin hands down every single day of the week. In tems of sheer effectiveness a trainer is probably better than the road, especially for extremely intense short intervals.

If you're away in a hotel and there's not a bike to be ridden in about 50 miles then it'd be an acceptable poor substitute but then again the ladies in the bar might be even more pleasing to the eye than the ones in the gym. Tough call, especially during happy hour.

I agree with Swampy, but I have been in some spin classes with some folk that have done well in competition. Just sayin'

At this link there are three people listed on this Ironman database that I trained with in spin classes.
ironzip.comathp.phpOpen ↗
Amy was a spin teacher at my gym
Charles and Cheryl were in a class at a different gym that also went to the World Ironman and did okay.

I still use a spin bike for my morning training session, use the KK trainer and e-Motion rollers with PT hub in the evening as the primary training session.

I agree that in the prime of bicycling season, riding out on the road is the best way to train and improve your skills, but I wouldn't belittle the OP for attempting to be a better cyclist anyway it sounds like he is without a bike at this time.

Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, but have you actually tried spin. You know there is a little knob at the top of the unit to add resistance?

I find the spin bike to be very similar to a resistance trainer, except that spin bikes are much more stable and you can put massive amounts of resistance on and mash for climbing type workouts. I am pretty sure that I or my bike would be damaged in short order if i could even attain such a high resistance on a trainer. The leg motion is the same on a spinner or a trainer as is the level of exertion, so why wouldn't it help?

I also like to workout with my wife. No way would she use the trainer and no way could we ride side by side on the road at a high intensity. Spinning also teaches newer riders the importance of cadence.

Regarding bike choice:

Have you been able to test ride said bicycle? Make sure that it fits correctly before buying, there are a lot of resources on this site and around the web which will describe a proper fit.

The bicycle appears to be a basic, low end spec. What is the range of the gearing? From the info above it looks to have 2x8 shifting. If your race has some really significant climbs you may want to consider a Triple up front or a wide range cassette in the rear. Racers tend to shun triples, but for enthusiasts and weekend warriors it is really nice to have the extra range should you need it.

Regular 23c tires can do off-road riding to an extent. They can ride across hard packed earth, grass (with some effort) and some gravel. Loose sand and mud are not so good. Likely the tires includes with the bike are basic cheapies that would flat pretty easily over debris. Depending on the course, you may be better served by wider tires. Perhaps a touring tire or, if you can fit it, a cyclocross tire would be better options.

Whatever you do, do not get the bike just before the race. Make plenty of time to get acquainted with the bike and understand what bits work and what bits need adjusting.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I agree with Swampy, but I have been in some spin classes with some folk that have done well in competition. Just sayin'

At this link there are three people listed on this Ironman database that I trained with in spin classes.
ironzip.comathp.phpOpen ↗
Amy was a spin teacher at my gym
Charles and Cheryl were in a class at a different gym that also went to the World Ironman and did okay.

I still use a spin bike for my morning training session, use the KK trainer and e-Motion rollers with PT hub in the evening as the primary training session.

Just curious - how many training session of various kinds do you do in a week?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Just curious - how many training session of various kinds do you do in a week?

Can I just say that I hope to get 10 hours of cycling training a week? [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Lately
M-Th - 5 am Weights / Spin Bike / Treadmill 6 pm Trainer and/or Rollers / Treadmill
F - 5 am Weights
Sat - endurance Ride
Sun - 2 x 60's (I don't always get to do this session)

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
People who go to spin classes should be banned from answering questions in Training forums for obvious reasons. Such activities serve no purpose other than perving at the hot chick in front of you getting sweaty in all the right places.

Then my whole varsity level tri-team would be excluded since we rely heavily on spinning during the off season.

Make no mistake though. Even you would probably end up spitting your left lung during these. We created a special spinning program for time trialists made of activities that contribute directly to cycling performances. The heart of the program is the improvement over 20-30min TT (sort of a preparation for the 10miler). That alone is taking half of our total training time. All sessions are power based. Results are being logged from session to session so that we can track changes in fitness.

There are no push up on the handle bar, spinning off the saddle without touching the handle bar and that sort of [censored]. Other than addressing the threshold, we perform ramp up test leading to MAP as well as vo2max intervals (ranging in duration between 3min and 7-8min). There are always a garbage trash or a bucket for people to barf during the hard efforts.

This year our program was put to heavy test as we had two Provincial Championships/Worlds AG Qualifiers very early into the season (June 11th and 18th). We won both of them.

Interestingly enough, my top rider scored 362watts on a Keiser M3 ergocycle at the final test of the spinning season. His FTP is regularly tested to 340w in actual 60min TT at training (4.4wpk), which is somewhat close to .95 of his 25min effort on the Keiser.

Retrospectively, I think that a huge benefit of this approach is to get students (tight on budget) kind of addicted to training with power.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by SolarEnergy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Then my whole varsity level tri-team would be excluded since we rely heavily on spinning during the off season.

Make no mistake though. Even you would probably end up spitting your left lung during these. We created a special spinning program for time trialists made of activities that contribute directly to cycling performances. The heart of the program is the improvement over 20-30min TT (sort of a preparation for the 10miler). That alone is taking half of our total training time. All sessions are power based. Results are being logged from session to session so that we can track changes in fitness.

There are no push up on the handle bar, spinning off the saddle without touching the handle bar and that sort of [censored]. Other than addressing the threshold, we perform ramp up test leading to MAP as well as vo2max intervals (ranging in duration between 3min and 7-8min). There are always a garbage trash or a bucket for people to barf during the hard efforts.

This year our program was put to heavy test as we had two Provincial Championships/Worlds AG Qualifiers very early into the season (June 11th and 18th). We won both of them.

Interestingly enough, my top rider scored 362watts on a Keiser M3 ergocycle at the final test of the spinning season. His FTP is regularly tested to 340w in actual 60min TT at training (4.4wpk), which is somewhat close to .95 of his 25min effort on the Keiser.

Retrospectively, I think that a huge benefit of this approach is to get students (tight on budget) kind of addicted to training with power.

Actually, it's the right lung that I have issues with - not my left. If I start having issues with that one then I'm completely farked. 😉

Spinning out of the saddle without holding onto the bars. I have to ask... Why?

So you have these fancy machines, why not get one where you can download the data and use it for more detailed analysis via something like WKO+? The last time I looked the M3 didn't have a download feature unlike some similarly priced competitors.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Actually, it's the right lung that I have issues with - not my left. If I start having issues with that one then I'm completely farked. 😉

Spinning out of the saddle without holding onto the bars. I have to ask... Why?

So you have these fancy machines, why not get one where you can download the data and use it for more detailed analysis via something like WKO+? The last time I looked the M3 didn't have a download feature unlike some similarly priced competitors.

Well, these are tryathletes and they do all kinds of goofy stuff. That's the only reason why I could see them not using the bars.

As for not using real power meters, if you look at the low number he quoted (only 4.4 watts/kg), apparently they win races through aerodynamics, not power. Those Sub-9 wheels are apparently higher priority than improved training. :/