strength of 28 spoke wheels

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?

In what units do you want the 'loss in strenth'?

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Lou Holtman said:

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical
models where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked
wheels? how much strength am i loosing?

In what units do you want the 'loss in strenth'?

Number of spokes/year.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?
thanks

I'd like to see an FEA of this myself... but I might just have to do it
myself... even though others are surely more qualified...

Some thoughts... if the wheel is strong enough to take the loads *you*
put on it... and is well built, then it will last a long time...
otherwise, not. A light and flexible rim requires more spokes, and a
rigid rim less... all else being equal. A large number of light butted
spokes is better (fatigue strength wise) than an equivalent weight of
fewer, heavier spokes.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?
thanks

What is strength to you? Have you ridden wheels you
considered weak?

--
Michael Press

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?

I'm not sure how do define that. For an low-average weight man (say
150#) on a mix of roads, I'd guess a 28-spoke front wheel is perhaps
twice as likely to break a spoke. But that's pretty rare in front, so
maybe it doesn't matter?

In back, it's a bigger difference -- perhaps 4 or 10 times as likely
to break a spoke. That's a noticable difference.

JT

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Was thinking along the lines of a percentage of maximum load, perhaps to a
point where, as has been mentioned, a spoke breaks, i guess it doesn't
really matter as long as you have a comparable for each wheel, does it?
However, if 28 spoke wheels have a particular weakness over 32/36/40 spoke
wheels then that comparison is probably best(?). Presuamably for example, 28
spoke wheels inflict greater stress on each drillings that the later? If so
whats the difference in max stress/load/force?
In short, who knows, hoping you guys would. :$

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical
models where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked
wheels? how much strength am i loosing?

In what units do you want the 'loss in strenth'?

Number of spokes/year.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels?

how

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much strength am i loosing?
thanks

I'd like to see an FEA of this myself... but I might just have to do it
myself... even though others are surely more qualified...

Some thoughts... if the wheel is strong enough to take the loads *you*
put on it... and is well built, then it will last a long time...
otherwise, not. A light and flexible rim requires more spokes, and a
rigid rim less... all else being equal. A large number of light butted
spokes is better (fatigue strength wise) than an equivalent weight of
fewer, heavier spokes.

Truely indeed, to what extent tho, as said, given the controls?

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What is strength to you? Have you ridden wheels you
considered weak?

--
Michael Press

Not found any wheels especially weak. Was considering some 28 spoke MTB
wheels that are on a deal. Was unsure about their strength as most 28 spoke
wheels i've seen in past are road, wondering if 28 spoke mtb was sensible?
Plus i'm a fat b*stard, 220lbs, don't want the buggers to collapse under me.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?

I'm not sure how do define that. For an low-average weight man (say
150#) on a mix of roads, I'd guess a 28-spoke front wheel is perhaps
twice as likely to break a spoke. But that's pretty rare in front, so
maybe it doesn't matter?

In back, it's a bigger difference -- perhaps 4 or 10 times as likely
to break a spoke. That's a noticable difference.

JT

4 - 10 times!? How so such a large margin? Are you suggesting that 28
spokes are that temperamental that it's near impossible to create a test
where the same result is unlikely?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Keiron said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What is strength to you? Have you ridden wheels you
considered weak?

--
Michael Press

Not found any wheels especially weak. Was considering some 28 spoke MTB
wheels that are on a deal. Was unsure about their strength as most 28 spoke
wheels i've seen in past are road, wondering if 28 spoke mtb was sensible?
Plus i'm a fat b*stard, 220lbs, don't want the buggers to collapse under me.

Unless you are racing, 36 spokes. Find a wheel builder who
guarantees his wheels, and follow his recommendations. You
will get 36 spoke wheels made from standard durable
components that will remain true until the brake surface
on the rims wears down to where you need to replace the
rims only, the spokes and hub being at the very beginning
of their useful life.

Yes, many, many wheel builders give the guarantee.

One definition of a strong wheel is one where the spokes
do not break from fatigue.

If you are wondering about 28 spoke wheels, wonder no
longer. Get 36 spoke wheels. If you want 28 spoke wheels
and are prepared to do what is necessary to have them, you
should have them.

Some of my best friends are fat [censored].

--
Michael Press

Keiron said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What is strength to you? Have you ridden wheels you
considered weak?

--
Michael Press

Not found any wheels especially weak. Was considering some 28 spoke MTB
wheels that are on a deal. Was unsure about their strength as most 28 spoke
wheels i've seen in past are road, wondering if 28 spoke mtb was sensible?
Plus i'm a fat b*stard, 220lbs, don't want the buggers to collapse under me.

I'm that size and am comfortable saying that you've got no business on 28 spoke
MTB wheels. Not unless your riding is limited to nice smooth trails and paths.

No titanium seat rails either, not for off road. Ask how I know.

Ron

Keiron said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?

I'm not sure how do define that. For an low-average weight man (say
150#) on a mix of roads, I'd guess a 28-spoke front wheel is perhaps
twice as likely to break a spoke. But that's pretty rare in front, so
maybe it doesn't matter?

In back, it's a bigger difference -- perhaps 4 or 10 times as likely
to break a spoke. That's a noticable difference.

JT

4 - 10 times!? How so such a large margin? Are you suggesting that 28
spokes are that temperamental that it's near impossible to create a test
where the same result is unlikely?

Wheels in general. Too many variables in the build and materials.

Ron

RonSonic said:

Wheels in general. Too many variables in the build and materials.

Ron

Actually, one thing that should be considered yet wasn't mentioned, is
the lacing pattern between 32 and 28 spoked wheels. 4 fewer spokes,
yes, but to lace them you go from 3 cross to 2 cross; that should
change lateral strength and might have a more significant effect on
wheel durability than if we just imagine the spoke stresses increasing
by an inverse ratio of the lesser number of spokes

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?

Quoted message said:

In back, it's a bigger difference -- perhaps 4 or 10 times as likely
to break a spoke. That's a noticable difference.

How did you come up with those numbers?

Lou

Ron Ruff <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Not found any wheels especially weak. Was considering some 28 spoke MTB
wheels that are on a deal.

Well... I suppose you could even tell us the exact wheels if you wanted
to... that would make it *much* easier to evaluate them.

I purposely omitted them, i didn't want a critique of the actual wheels,
just the general, but "for your personal satisfaction" these are they:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&item=300021532924&rd=
1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

the more i see them, the more frail they look.

RonSonic <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:37:29 GMT, "Keiron" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What is strength to you? Have you ridden wheels you
considered weak?

--
Michael Press

Not found any wheels especially weak. Was considering some 28 spoke MTB
wheels that are on a deal. Was unsure about their strength as most 28

spoke

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheels i've seen in past are road, wondering if 28 spoke mtb was

sensible?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plus i'm a fat b*stard, 220lbs, don't want the buggers to collapse under

me.

Quoted message said:

I'm that size and am comfortable saying that you've got no business on 28

spoke

Quoted message said:

MTB wheels. Not unless your riding is limited to nice smooth trails and

paths.

Quoted message said:

No titanium seat rails either, not for off road. Ask how I know.

Ron

I assume it's something to do with your ass and a sharp splintered seatpost?

As it seems quite impossible to evaluate wheels in the sense i've asked,
followeth the wheels i've seen:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&item=300021532924&rd=
1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Dirt Cheap as you can see, they worth a pop for the cash? i know, i know;
quando hubs but god's honest truth i've used a few quando hubs and had no
difficulty with any, they still all run, and seldom require overhaul.
Any views?

Keiron <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

how strong relatively speaking? obviously the brand/quality of the
components and build are important but by the way of mathematical models
where those elements are equal for a similar 28 and 36 spoked wheels? how
much strength am i loosing?
thanks

Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jack-

Quoted message said:

Some of my best friends are fat [censored].

--
Michael Press

Are you coming on to me? ;P
Viva The Fatties!

Keiron said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What is strength to you? Have you ridden wheels you
considered weak?

--
Michael Press

Not found any wheels especially weak. Was considering some 28 spoke MTB
wheels that are on a deal. Was unsure about their strength as most 28 spoke
wheels i've seen in past are road, wondering if 28 spoke mtb was sensible?
Plus i'm a fat b*stard, 220lbs, don't want the buggers to collapse under me.

Think about it...laqrge rider and 28 hole wheels...ya think it's a good
idea??