STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

It is when someone decides to misrepresent, exagerate, or lie about anothers opinion or position.
Then they attack the misrepresented position because it is easier to knock down.

example

Jan - Feminism is one of the most important movements of the last century.

carabelli - how could anyone support a bunch of castrating lesbians that want procreation to be
accomplished only by artificial insemination?

- Obiously there are very few, if any, feminists that can be characterised this way, I distorted her
opinion to make it easier to discredit. Note - the orginal statement was not discredited.

carabelli

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

It is also known as "false attribution." It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent
your opponent's position in a way to make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick
the most negative or weak part of the argument and attack it. Here's a primer:

nizkor.orgstraw man.htmlOpen ↗

rous.redbarn.orgGuideToObjectivismOpen ↗ FALLACYS.HTM#208

kcmetro.cc.mo.usfallacy.htmOpen ↗

infidels.orglogic.htmlOpen ↗

fallacyfiles.orgstrawman.htmlOpen ↗

datanation.comstraw.htmOpen ↗

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

It is also known as "false attribution.

False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

Lying is rampant.

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to
make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most negative or weak part of
the argument and attack it.

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN.... From: Orac [email hidden] Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

It is also known as "false attribution.

False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

Lying is rampant.

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to
make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most negative or weak part of
the argument and attack it.

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

Jan, the only reason you have not been called on the "Strawman" argument is because you do it so
poorly that it barely qualifies. Too bad they didn't offer debate during the first two years at your
high school.

carabelli

shot fired over the bow or over the head?

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote .............

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in.............

Janster, there really is no shame in momentarily repressing your 'shoot from the hip' style of
ripping off a reply without thinking. If you ask, I'm certain there are several posters that will
explain what "logical fallacy" means in simple terms.

carabelli

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20040223222745.25000.00000318@mb-

Quoted message said:

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

Shush! The grown-ups are talking.

Peter Moran

(Jan) said:

There are a few who sound like kids.

No, make that brats.

Lies galore, making them up as they go.

Yep. And they are all atheists and Jews. Right Jan??

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Jan

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

(They are basically spoiling the newsgroup with stupid bickering arguments, with nothing to do with
alt med at all) Anth

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(They are basically spoiling the newsgroup with stupid bickering

arguments,

Quoted message said:

with nothing to do with alt med at all) Anth

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
acknowledgements.

"carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
acknowledgements.

Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be assisting in keeping the
insanity going....and then kindly stop responding to any posts about religion, who-did-what-to-whom
and drop all of the smart aleck postings.

Those who would not wish to drop all of it (freedom of choice) must realize it is causing an upset
with readers. And in all fairness they need to preface future posts with their acknowledgement that
they do know what they have to say is upsetting people, but that they feel they are more important
than the whole and don't care who gets upset.

It is easy sometimes to get sucked into bicker/banter. Much more difficult to see where, if they did
not START it, they have certainly been keeping it going. It takes bigger people to jump off the
snowball that is rolling downhill. Small people become meshed in the rolling while heading .....who
knows where, but toward the bottom.

I don't think anyone needs to do anything but jump off the snowball. Silence is a powerful
communication of how one feels about others and themselves.

Coleah

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN.... From: Orac [email hidden] Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

It is also known as "false attribution.

False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

Jan, you mis-read..it is aTTribution.....

Quoted message said:

Lying is rampant.

Yes, Mistress of Posting...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to
make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most negative or weak part of
the argument and attack it.

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Sure, Janny, sure.

Quoted message said:

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and see how wrong she is?

[email hidden] wrote:

Remember the scarecrow from "The Wizard of Oz"? (Or "The Wiz"😉 Since a "straw man" has no substance,
"he" cannot stand on his own, hence the reference to the logical fallacy of supposing that a minor
discrepancy or an unrelated fact somehow undermines the legitimacy of a premise or statement. This
perceived vulnerability is made possible by the fact that the chosen "flaws" frequently play upon
common prejudice and are thus easy to "knock down" by the antagonist. This is not as blatant as the
personal attack (ad hominem), but it can be equally destructive in an emotionally charged setting.
Sometimes there is a fine line between the two, as in the following example. BTW, I posted my
thoughts upon this matter on my own website, which the author of the following is kind enough to
share with the interested reader:

nmsr.orgcontrovy.htmOpen ↗

(BTW, I personally think "turnabout" is always fair play)

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist, _____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

2004' Mark said:

Quoted message said:

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and see how wrong she is?

Massive MI or CVA would be my guess.
--

"I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
-Yoshimo

Coleah said:

"carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6tN_b.85535$hR.1731333@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
acknowledgements.

Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be assisting in keeping the
insanity going....and then kindly stop responding

Not gonna happen.
--

"I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
-Yoshimo

"WB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Coleah said:

"carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6tN_b.85535$hR.1731333@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Quoted message said:

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
acknowledgements.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be assisting in keeping the
insanity going....and then kindly stop

responding

Quoted message said:

Not gonna happen.

People enjoy cyber slapping and eye gouging other people too much to stop?