STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

It is when someone decides to misrepresent, exagerate, or lie about anothers
opinion or position. Then they attack the misrepresented position because
it is easier to knock down.

example

Jan - Feminism is one of the most important movements of the last century.

carabelli - how could anyone support a bunch of castrating lesbians that
want procreation to be accomplished only by artificial insemination?

-
Obiously there are very few, if any, feminists that can be characterised
this way, I distorted her opinion to make it easier to discredit.
Note - the orginal statement was not discredited.

carabelli

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

It is also known as "false attribution." It is the logical fallacy in
which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to make
it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most
negative or weak part of the argument and attack it. Here's a primer:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

http://rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/Writing/DavidKing/GuideToObjectivism/
FALLACYS.HTM#208

http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/longview/CTAC/fallacy.htm#Straw%20Man

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#strawman

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

http://datanation.com/fallacies/straw.htm

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

It is also known as "false attribution.

False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

Lying is rampant.

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in
which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to make
it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most
negative or weak part of the argument and attack it.

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

It is also known as "false attribution.

False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

Lying is rampant.

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in
which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to make
it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most
negative or weak part of the argument and attack it.

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

Jan, the only reason you have not been called on the "Strawman" argument is
because you do it so poorly that it barely qualifies. Too bad they didn't
offer debate during the first two years at your high school.

carabelli

shot fired over the bow or over the head?

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote .............

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in.............

Janster, there really is no shame in momentarily repressing your 'shoot from
the hip' style of ripping off a reply without thinking. If you ask, I'm
certain there are several posters that will explain what "logical fallacy"
means in simple terms.

carabelli

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20040223222745.25000.00000318@mb-

Quoted message said:

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

Shush! The grown-ups are talking.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 2/23/2004 8:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20040223222745.25000.00000318@mb-

Quoted message said:

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

Jan

Shush! The grown-ups are talking.

Peter Moran

There are a few who sound like kids.

No, make that brats.

Lies galore, making them up as they go.

Jan

(Jan) said:

There are a few who sound like kids.

No, make that brats.

Lies galore, making them up as they go.

Yep. And they are all atheists and Jews. Right Jan??

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Jan

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

(They are basically spoiling the newsgroup with stupid bickering arguments,
with nothing to do with alt med at all)
Anth

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(They are basically spoiling the newsgroup with stupid bickering

arguments,

Quoted message said:

with nothing to do with alt med at all)
Anth

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of
hours, with two or three acknowledgements.

"carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of
hours, with two or three acknowledgements.

Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be
assisting in keeping the insanity going....and then kindly stop responding
to any posts about religion, who-did-what-to-whom and drop all of the smart
aleck postings.

Those who would not wish to drop all of it (freedom of choice) must realize
it is causing an upset with readers. And in all fairness they need to
preface future posts with their acknowledgement that they do know what they
have to say is upsetting people, but that they feel they are more important
than the whole and don't care who gets upset.

It is easy sometimes to get sucked into bicker/banter. Much more difficult
to see where, if they did not START it, they have certainly been keeping it
going. It takes bigger people to jump off the snowball that is rolling
downhill. Small people become meshed in the rolling while heading .....who
knows where, but toward the bottom.

I don't think anyone needs to do anything but jump off the snowball.
Silence is a powerful communication of how one feels about others and
themselves.

Coleah

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to-
call- this atmosphere? Examples would help. Confused but willing to
learn.

It is also known as "false attribution.

False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

Jan, you mis-read..it is aTTribution.....

Quoted message said:

Lying is rampant.

Yes, Mistress of Posting...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is the logical fallacy in
which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to make
it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most
negative or weak part of the argument and attack it.

Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

Sure, Janny, sure.

Quoted message said:

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and
see how wrong she is?

[email hidden] wrote:

Remember the scarecrow from "The Wizard of Oz"? (Or "The Wiz"😉 Since a
"straw man" has no substance, "he" cannot stand on his own, hence the
reference to the logical fallacy of supposing that a minor discrepancy
or an unrelated fact somehow undermines the legitimacy of a premise or
statement. This perceived vulnerability is made possible by the fact
that the chosen "flaws" frequently play upon common prejudice and are
thus easy to "knock down" by the antagonist. This is not as blatant as
the personal attack (ad hominem), but it can be equally destructive in
an emotionally charged setting. Sometimes there is a fine line between
the two, as in the following example. BTW, I posted my thoughts upon
this matter on my own website, which the author of the following is kind
enough to share with the interested reader:

http://www.nmsr.org/controvy.htm

(BTW, I personally think "turnabout" is always fair play)

--
_o Kristofer Dale,
_ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org

Coleah said:

"carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of
hours, with two or three acknowledgements.

Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be
assisting in keeping the insanity going....and then kindly stop responding

Not gonna happen.
--

"I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
-Yoshimo

2004' Mark said:

Quoted message said:

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and
see how wrong she is?

Massive MI or CVA would be my guess.
--

"I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
-Yoshimo

"WB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Coleah said:

"carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of
hours, with two or three acknowledgements.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be
assisting in keeping the insanity going....and then kindly stop

responding

Quoted message said:

Not gonna happen.

People enjoy cyber slapping and
eye gouging other people too much to stop?

Quoted message said:

2004' Mark said:

Quoted message said:

Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and
see how wrong she is?

Massive MI or CVA would be my guess.
--

Actually, she had a severe mood disorder, subsequent depression and
somatization disorders, and tried to blame it on parasites, amalgams, and
"toxins". In the process, she was able to repress that bit of insight into her
own behavior AND project her evil onto everyone and everything.