Strapless Mini-Clips - Help or Hindrance?

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly?

Yes, it gets easier and less distracting. As to how long this takes,
that will depend on the person.

Can you practice somewhere safe? That's your best bet right now. Find
a parking lot or side street where you don't have to worry about cars,
and practice. Just a few minutes of practice whenever you can would
add up and make the motions much easier. A few circles when you get
home or to work focused on just this?

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly?

Yes. My wife and youngest daughter use them with no problems.

Quoted message said:

after 2 years...). Are there other tools that could help, like weights
to get the pedals to come up straight?

There certainly used to be small tongue type attachments that could be
fitted to the rear of the pedals that you then flipped with you toe to
turn the pedal upright. I'm not sure if they are still available as
toeclips are no longer in fashion, having been superceded by clipless.
Some platform pedals still have a similar tongue incorporated into their
design but I think they are rarer now as reflectors are now also required.

Perhaps find 'ye olde ancient dusty bike shop' and see if you can get a
pair from their 'box of bits'.

John B

In article said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly? Or in a distant blue future, like taking
one's hands off the handlebars (still completely incomprehensible to me
after 2 years...). Are there other tools that could help, like weights
to get the pedals to come up straight? Is the problem still just a
geometric one, as it was with the original sugarloafs? Your reflections
and experiences would be welcome.

I used a set of these for a while before switching to clipless pedals,
and my intitial experiences were similar to yours with respect to
getting clipped into them. After a while I found I got used to it, the
trick seems to be getting a hang of pressing down on the 'back' (the
bit's that's facing skywards when the clip is hanging down) with the
ball of your foot so that the pedal comes level with the ground with the
clip just ahead of your toes. You should then be able to slide your foot
forward into the clip and start pedalling.

It's not always easy to get the second foot into the clip, and I found
at times that it was easier to use the back of the pedal until it was
possible to frewheel while trying to flip it over.

--
Mike Quin <[email hidden]>

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

[...]

|| My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
|| correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
|| practise?

It never got easier for me, and I don't ever wear a shirt.

|| Relatively quickly?

To a large degree, this will depend on you.

Or in a distant blue future, like
|| taking one's hands off the handlebars (still completely
|| incomprehensible to me after 2 years...). Are there other tools that
|| could help, like weights to get the pedals to come up straight? Is
|| the problem still just a geometric one, as it was with the original
|| sugarloafs? Your reflections and experiences would be welcome.
||

You said you're terribly afraid of falling. I was too. On my first major
ride after going clipless I fell three times in 25 miles. I haven't fallen
since (that was aleast 2000 miles ago). The thing I remember is that that
falls weren't nearly as bad as I had imagined. However, this has to be a
YMMV kind of thing, but I'm a 46yo 240 lb man.

My suggestion: get on the grass and learn to go clipless (I'm not suggesting
you do this before your event- but sooner or later you should jump the
bridge). Go ahead and fall a few times. And it is better to do this while
there is someone there to talk with you as you ride, as that will increase
your chances of falling. I know that sounds crazy, but when I first went
clipless I had three rides alone where I didn't fall. Ithought i had it
down. Then, as soon as I rode to meet my riding buddy, where I had to stop
and chat, I fell. The next fall was again while I was talking to him without
being fully clicked out. and these falls were on the road - so there was a
bit of road rash involved. But you learn quickly to respect the pedals and
to make sure you're clipped out. Fear in this case is a good thing.

Seems like it ought to be possible to make some properly weight pedals that
always fall to the right position.

JohnB said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly?

Yes. My wife and youngest daughter use them with no problems.

Ditto. I used them before I went clipless and my partner still uses them.

One thing I did was not to worry about getting in the second foot straight
away. Use the back of the pedal while you get going. One you are coasting
and don't have to worry about the problems of starting off then try to
flip the pedal. There's no harm the pedal being upside down as long as you
aren't leaning into corners.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

after 2 years...). Are there other tools that could help, like weights
to get the pedals to come up straight?

There certainly used to be small tongue type attachments that could be
fitted to the rear of the pedals that you then flipped with you toe to
turn the pedal upright. I'm not sure if they are still available as
toeclips are no longer in fashion, having been superceded by clipless.
Some platform pedals still have a similar tongue incorporated into their
design but I think they are rarer now as reflectors are now also
required.

Perhaps find 'ye olde ancient dusty bike shop' and see if you can get a
pair from their 'box of bits'.

I have a pir of pedals like this knocking around. They can still take
reflectors but the shape of the 'back' of the pedal has the curl, rather
than the add-on you mention. They came off my tourer as it was shipped
with clips and straps. I expect a bike shop will be able to get hold of
these, and possibly, as you suggest, from their box of bits taken off
shipped bikes.

Colin

Roger Zoul said:

My suggestion: get on the grass and learn to go clipless (I'm not suggesting
you do this before your event- but sooner or later you should jump the
bridge).

I won't be ready to go clipless for a long time yet. It's not only the fear of
falling, but the shoe factor. I need to wear ordinary shoes and clothes since my
characteristic cycling trip 95% of the time is the daily one of only 1.5 km to
and from my workplace. It's not worth getting changed for that.

I think clipless and the whole palaver of cycling gear that you have to change
into as for a theatrical performance only makes sense on much longer distances.
Perhaps if I take up cyclotouring some day, but it's not my immediate
application.

EFR
Ile de France

Mike Quin said:

I used a set of these for a while before switching to clipless pedals,
and my intitial experiences were similar to yours with respect to
getting clipped into them. After a while I found I got used to it, the
trick seems to be getting a hang of pressing down on the 'back' (the
bit's that's facing skywards when the clip is hanging down) with the
ball of your foot so that the pedal comes level with the ground with the
clip just ahead of your toes. You should then be able to slide your foot
forward into the clip and start pedalling.

Thanks for the tip. I'm having a little trouble envisioning "level with the
ground". Do you actually block the toe clip on the ground to push down into
it? Or is your foot rotating the pedal from a vertical to a horizontal axis
as it completes the downstroke? When you start, is the pedal crank on the
starting side parallel to the ground or perpendicular? (I have it so that the
pedal is at about 2 o'clock on the crank).

Quoted message said:

It's not always easy to get the second foot into the clip, and I found
at times that it was easier to use the back of the pedal until it was
possible to frewheel while trying to flip it over.

I'm finding the same thing - just don't think about it until I have the
leisure to seek the clip.

My ride on Thursday should help bring some other things to light.

Thanks again.

EFR
Ile de France

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

the ground with at least one toe when at a standstill. I have poor
balance and despite 2 years of cycling I still cannot start and stop in
a standing posture.

Quoted message said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly?

It is pretty quick for most people, but if you still can't step off the
saddle as you stop to put a foot down after 2 years then I am afraid I
can't say with any confidence that you are "most people" :-(

"All" you have to do is flip the pedal over with your toe and slide it
forwards over the pedal and into the clip. Whether or not this is
trivial is user dependent.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article said:

Thanks for the tip. I'm having a little trouble envisioning "level with the
ground". Do you actually block the toe clip on the ground to push down into
it? Or is your foot rotating the pedal from a vertical to a horizontal axis
as it completes the downstroke?

The later.

Quoted message said:

When you start, is the pedal crank on the
starting side parallel to the ground or perpendicular? (I have it so that the
pedal is at about 2 o'clock on the crank).

I would start with the 'starting' crank in the 2 o'clock position,
getting my foot into the clip as described above then push off, lifting
myself onto the saddle in the process.

--
Mike Quin <[email hidden]>

Peter Clinch said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly?

"All" you have to do is flip the pedal over with your toe and slide it
forwards over the pedal and into the clip. Whether or not this is
trivial is user dependent.

Smooth bottom shoes help a LOT in getting the foot in quickly.

John B

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||
||| My suggestion: get on the grass and learn to go clipless (I'm not
||| suggesting you do this before your event- but sooner or later you
||| should jump the bridge).
||
|| I won't be ready to go clipless for a long time yet. It's not only
|| the fear of falling, but the shoe factor. I need to wear ordinary
|| shoes and clothes since my characteristic cycling trip 95% of the
|| time is the daily one of only 1.5 km to and from my workplace. It's
|| not worth getting changed for that.

Ah...I would tend to agree.

||
|| I think clipless and the whole palaver of cycling gear that you have
|| to change into as for a theatrical performance only makes sense on
|| much longer distances. Perhaps if I take up cyclotouring some day,
|| but it's not my immediate application.

An office mate of mine cycles in every day 5-miles one way. He bring is
clothes in a backpack and wears cycling shorts. I don't think he goes
clipless, though. Different strokes, methinks.

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly? Or in a distant blue future, like taking
one's hands off the handlebars (still completely incomprehensible to me
after 2 years...). Are there other tools that could help, like weights
to get the pedals to come up straight? Is the problem still just a
geometric one, as it was with the original sugarloafs? Your reflections
and experiences would be welcome.

EFR
Ile de France

I use these (in lieu of confidence to try clipless). I found the same
issues as you initially with them, but bear with it - it does improve
with practice.

I also looked at weighting the back of hte pedal to get them to hang
better, but to no avail.

What I do is use shoes with a fairly good tread on the bottom - this
stops me sliding off the pedals to some extent if I put the second foot
on and it's either upside down or rightside up but on top of the toeclip
bit.

However, what I found works best is to gently put the foot on the pedal
- if it's hanging naturally, it will be the back of hte pedal, where the
reflector is, not the upper or lower surface of it, pull foot back ever
so slightly - this rotates the pedal, bringing the toeclip up towards
you and over the end of the shoe - and you're in.

Now, it doesn't always work that neatly every time, and takes quite a
bit of practice to get right - but if you practice it while stationary,
that will help a lot. Once you've cracked the 'how' to do it, getting
it to come naturally follows fairly fast - the more you try it, the
easier it gets, and the more frequently it succeeds.

A cautionary note, though - once you have this habit formed and working
well, be aware that it is possible to pull the foot out of the pedal
slightly early, attempt to place foot on underside of pedal (by catching
top of pedal and pushing forwards, instead of dragging back) but to
misjudge it somehow, and end up with the toecup back over the toe.

This has happened a couple of times to me, but I've not fallen off yet.
One instance of an ungainly hopping to the side after me and the bike
overbalanced a bit yes, but I certainly wasn't caught in the toecup,
just pulled out a bit late!!!

I really like mine. So much that I'm seriously thinking about going for
clipless now. Like you, I've found they make a surprising amount of
difference on hills or fast cadences, and generally foot security there.
I can feel the difference if I'm not in them - I can't put in power
through so much of the pedal stroke, which I was very suprised about.
There's limited amounts of 'pulling up' with them when I use them too -
the benefit of being a 'heels down' cyclist - my toes are pointing up
even as I come to the top of the circle to start the push downward bit,
so I've gained power on the upper part of it that I never had before.

So persevere with them a little longer - they are well worth it in my
opinion, and I'm one of the more nervous cyclists ;-)

--

Velvet

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

The claim of the mini-clips is that they do not restrict my ability to
remove my feet quickly from the pedals as clips with straps or clipless
pedals would do.

[...]

Quoted message said:

However, I have major problems catching these new pedals on the uprise
in such a way as to get my feet into the clips.

Michael (aged 10) has them on his bike, and we have them on the
triplet. I think they are great.

Of course they take a tiny bit of getting used to, but if you find the
toecup is pointing down when you start off - so what? They are
pliable, so even if you were able to take an sharp enough corner that
they touched down, the effect is negligible. So start with your foot
on the wrong side of the pedal and wait until you're going strong
before tipping your foot into the cup.

IME, tipping your foot into the cup on the move is trivially easy as
long as you don't try to do it while you are halfway through
negotiating a junction. Even though it is complicated in my case by
two children keeping the pedals turning :-) Looking down is rarely
necessary.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

I've had some Zefal Strapless Mini-Clips and suitable pedals fitted to
Behemoth, in replacement of the "sugarloaf" (or whatever they're
called) pedals that she came with.

The claim of the mini-clips is that they do not restrict my ability to
remove my feet quickly from the pedals as clips with straps or
clipless pedals would do. This is important to me because I am
seriously terrified of falling.

I find falling off a few times helps with that 😉.

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
/snip

Quoted message said:

However, I have major problems catching these new pedals on the uprise
in such a way as to get my feet into the clips. For one thing, the
pedals always present themselves upside down, pulled into a nose-dive
by the weight of the clips. So when I start off, I must concentrate
hard on finding the right pedal and threading my foot carefully into
it.

/snip

I've not used Mini-Clips but the technique I use for normal toe clips is
to tap the nearest edge of the upside-down pedal to make it flip, then
shove foot forwards to catch the clip, and hope I've timed it right. Yes
it does take practise, no I never mastered it 100%, so it does sometimes
take more than one attempt. (I still use toe clips sometimes, but mostly
clipless).

I reckon clipless* will ultimately be the best solution despite your
reservations, but I can recommend the following if you do decide to go
back to plain flat pedals:
www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?item8563.htm -- I got some for my
old mum's bike. Or should I say: my mum's old bike? ;-) Very non-slip,
good size & shape, not heavy. Only catch is the bearings: crude and rough
as old boots, from new :-( They're Okay-enough (though never sliky
smooth) if readjusted and regreased, though. Your local bike shop, or me,
could do this for you if you didn't have the necessary tools/knowledge.
SJSC should, come to think of it.
....I know that doesn't sound like much of a recommendation but
actually these feel better to use than any other basic type pedals I've
ever tried.

* Perhaps double-sided SPD's with a large cage around the SPD mechanism to
act as a platform.

~PB

Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've had some Zefal Strapless Mini-Clips and suitable pedals fitted to
Behemoth, in replacement of the "sugarloaf" (or whatever they're called)
pedals that she came with.

The claim of the mini-clips is that they do not restrict my ability to
remove my feet quickly from the pedals as clips with straps or clipless
pedals would do. This is important to me because I am seriously
terrified of falling. I was finding with the old sugarloaf pedals that
my feet frequently slipped off them, that it was hard to remain in
contact when grinding uphill, and that these problems were especially
acute in rain because the pedals became slippery.

It is also the case that Behemoth's Dutch Bike geometry has never really
suited me. The pedals are too far back with respect to the seat so that
I have trouble catching the second pedal when it comes up to start. The
placement of my foot falls naturally into the arch and on the heel
rather than on the ball. Moreover, the seat is too low, but it is not
possible to raise it without obliterating the possibility of touching
the ground with at least one toe when at a standstill. I have poor
balance and despite 2 years of cycling I still cannot start and stop in
a standing posture.

I've only had the mini-clips on for two days but my impressions are
mixed. It does indeed seem to be quite easy to release my foot. I have
only had a slight problem once so far. Also the clips keep my feet in a
better relation to the pedals, pushing from the ball. The energy is all
forward and none is lost in just trying to keep in contact with the
pedals. This is particuarly perceptible when going uphill, which now
seems much easier, as though I had acquired an extra lower gear. Going
fast in high gear, and remaining in control when spinning out downhill
also seem easier with the clips.

However, I have major problems catching these new pedals on the uprise
in such a way as to get my feet into the clips. For one thing, the
pedals always present themselves upside down, pulled into a nose-dive by
the weight of the clips. So when I start off, I must concentrate hard on
finding the right pedal and threading my foot carefully into it. (This
is especially hard in a skirt as I cannot even see what I am doing.) The
second, left pedal is usually ridden on the reverse side, cancelling out
any advantage from the clip and scraping dangerously near the ground. In
traffic, this has already proved quite dangerous. I do not have time at
a traffic light to thread my foot into the starting clip, so I must
place it any-how. In addition to the tendency to start on the underside,
there have also been cases when I have started on the right side, but
_on top_ of both pedal and clip. My feet then roll forward off the
pedals and I lose both pedals, forcing me to reach a quick standstill in
mid-traffic.

On Thursday I have a "big" cycling trip planned - the 10 kms to the
headquarters of my firm. On the one hand, I'm hoping that the clips will
help me gain speed and strength. On the other, I'm very worried about
the added danger in traffic.

In summary, I find that the clips are an advantage, but only on the rare
occsasions when they are properly ON. Getting them properly ON is a
whole project in itself, and the extra time and concentration required
can be dangerous as it takes my attention away from the road.

My question to the group: is this trick of catching the pedals on the
correct side and getting my feet into them something that comes with
practise? Relatively quickly? Or in a distant blue future, like taking
one's hands off the handlebars (still completely incomprehensible to me
after 2 years...). Are there other tools that could help, like weights
to get the pedals to come up straight? Is the problem still just a
geometric one, as it was with the original sugarloafs? Your reflections
and experiences would be welcome.

EFR
Ile de France

Elisa,
I like your style.

When I started using clips and straps I had exactly the same issues as
you. I appreciate it's slightly harder in a full skirt than in
trousers, but after a bit of practise, somewhere quiet, I was able to
do the toe-pedal-flip-slide thing without looking, after a couple of
days.

As Guy (and others) have pointed out, the beauty of having the plastic
mini-clips is that if you do find yourself cycling with them "upside
down" and they scrape on the road/pavement then they will not dislodge
you or send you off in anyway. The alarming sound they make can be
treated as an indication that your toe is not in the clip, rather than
the start of an undignified and rapid fall. I've managed to scrape
the plastic on the ground going round a corner at 25 kph and had no
problems at all.

I do not know what shoes you are wearing, but I found that using a
relatively flexible sole helped me feel where the pedal was in
relation to my feet. This goes counter to usual cycling/shoe advice,
but as you aren't racing I think it makes more sense to wear what
helps you rather than what hinders.

If I read your message correctly you are putting both feet on the
ground at traffic lights, then quickly getting back onto the bike and
moving off when they change. Maybe you could get your "starting foot"
into the clip before the lights change, using the brakes to hold the
bike steady. After a while of doing this you will get bored and find
it easier not to put both feet on the ground, standing with only one
foot on the ground, and the other still in the clip in the six o'clock
position.

Have fun and enjoy

steve

My 4yo mastered the technique in a matter of minutes on our tandem. I
do however hold the pedals horizontal for him.

Slide foot backwards to pull pedal into place before slotting foot
firmly into toeclip. Works fine.
regards,
Daren
--
remove outer garment for reply

Colin Blackburn said:

I have a pir of pedals like this knocking around. They can still take
reflectors but the shape of the 'back' of the pedal has the curl, rather
than the add-on you mention. They came off my tourer as it was shipped
with clips and straps. I expect a bike shop will be able to get hold of
these, and possibly, as you suggest, from their box of bits taken off
shipped bikes.

In fact EBC have some that fit the bill;

Go to:

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/

and you should see the FPD MT LUX on the right hand side of the page. If
not paste:

detail.cfm?ID=19820

onto the end of the existing URL to go to the right page.

As you'll see these pedal have a "Toe flip tab on underside makes it easy
to spin pedal right way up."

Colin

In message <[email hidden]>, Elisa Francesca Roselli
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I won't be ready to go clipless for a long time yet. It's not only the fear of
falling, but the shoe factor. I need to wear ordinary shoes and clothes
since my
characteristic cycling trip 95% of the time is the daily one of only 1.5 km to
and from my workplace. It's not worth getting changed for that.

It might be though if you don't want to scratch your work shoes on the
clips. Many people (even men in suits) happily walk round central London
in the mornings wearing big bright trainers. You've got even more excuse
on a bike.

--
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