Strange Sound

Garry Jones said:

I have a mysterious sound coming from my bike.

Pinarello Gavia 1995 (Steel frame)
Campag 18 gear (Mixture of chorus and record).

For the last month I have been aware of a strange sound whilst pedaling.
As the drive train had a few thousand miles in it I purchased a new
chain, new cogs and new pullies for the back gear last week. But I still
hear the sound whilst pedaling.

It has since transpired that other cyclists hear the sound whilst I am
freewheeling. The "click" sound in the hub mech drowns out most of the
mysterious sound to my ears, but now I am listening for it it is
definitely there even when I am freewheeling, feet and pedals still.

Sound description. - A kind of recurring swishing/creaking that
coincides with eash wheel revolution. - I keep my eye on the rear rim
label and the sound corresponds to each wheel rev.

I removed the bottom bracket and cleaned up in there, although it was in
perfect condition with the original grease still gleaming white after 9
years.

I suspected spokes rubbing, but it does not sound like spoke sound which
I have heard on other bikes. So I was about to take the hub apart.

Then just to make sure it was the hub before dismantling I changed
wheels with a friend who also has campag 9. We changed both wheels and
rode out to test. The sound stayed on my bike and with my wheels on his
bike he had no sound.

So what's left? A creaking frame? A crack somewhere I can not find? What
else can I do?

One last thing, when I stand and lean forward putting my weight on the
handlebars the sound stops (or is greatly reduced). When I put my body
weight backwards over the sadle area (without sitting on it) the sound
returns.

This is driving me nuts. Help!

Garry Jones
English Cyclist ResIDING in Sweden

Dear Garry,

A slightly bent axle?

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Garry Jones said:

I have a mysterious sound coming from my bike.

This is driving me nuts. Help!

A slightly bent axle?

A small deformation in a bearing race?

--Blair
"Hub gnomes?"

Garry Jones wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a mysterious sound coming from my bike.

Pinarello Gavia 1995 (Steel frame)
Campag 18 gear (Mixture of chorus and record).

For the last month I have been aware of a strange sound whilst pedaling.
As the drive train had a few thousand miles in it I purchased a new
chain, new cogs and new pullies for the back gear last week. But I still
hear the sound whilst pedaling.

It has since transpired that other cyclists hear the sound whilst I am
freewheeling. The "click" sound in the hub mech drowns out most of the
mysterious sound to my ears, but now I am listening for it it is
definitely there even when I am freewheeling, feet and pedals still.

Sound description. - A kind of recurring swishing/creaking that
coincides with eash wheel revolution. - I keep my eye on the rear rim
label and the sound corresponds to each wheel rev.

I removed the bottom bracket and cleaned up in there, although it was in
perfect condition with the original grease still gleaming white after 9
years.

I suspected spokes rubbing, but it does not sound like spoke sound which
I have heard on other bikes. So I was about to take the hub apart.

Then just to make sure it was the hub before dismantling I changed
wheels with a friend who also has campag 9. We changed both wheels and
rode out to test. The sound stayed on my bike and with my wheels on his
bike he had no sound.

So what's left? A creaking frame? A crack somewhere I can not find? What
else can I do?

One last thing, when I stand and lean forward putting my weight on the
handlebars the sound stops (or is greatly reduced). When I put my body
weight backwards over the sadle area (without sitting on it) the sound
returns.

This is driving me nuts. Help!

Tyre rubbing on seat tube or front mech band or cable or most likely
mudguards. Mudguards nearly always squeak, the whoosh is because the tyre
is very close to the 'guards.

Trevor

Quoted message said:

Dear Garry,

A slightly bent axle?

No, because when I borrowed my friends wheels I still had the sound.
With my wheels on his bike he had no sound.

Garry J

Blair P. Houghton said:

A small deformation in a bearing race?

In the hub? No, with my wheels on a friends bike his wax silent. My bike
still had the noise with his wheels.

Garry J

Trevor said:

Tyre rubbing on seat tube or front mech band or cable or most likely
mudguards. Mudguards nearly always squeak, the whoosh is because the tyre
is very close to the 'guards.

No mudguards. And no tyre rub that I or anyone riding near me can see.

Garry J

garry-<< This is driving me nuts. Help! >><BR><BR>

Rims? If OpenPro, it could be the loose wedge syndrome.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Garry Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Garry,

A slightly bent axle?

No, because when I borrowed my friends wheels I still had the sound.
With my wheels on his bike he had no sound.

Garry J

Dear Garry,

D'oh!

You said so quite plainly in your original post, but I
spaced it out--sorry, but thanks for your polite and patient
reply.

I note with alarm that Blair and Peter have offered
suggestions involving the inside of your silent when swapped
wheel, so I'm afraid that my foolish reply led them down the
wrong path.

Since the wheel is silent on another bike, but the sound
cycles with the wheel and continues when freewheeling, I
wonder if something flexing ever so slightly under your
weight is letting the tire touch the brake assembly or the
rim touch the pads.

You could unscrew the whole brake, zip-tie it to the seat,
and ride around the block to test this possibility.

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Rims? If OpenPro, it could be the loose wedge syndrome.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

From the original POST: NOTE:

"Then just to make sure it was the hub before dismantling I changed
wheels with a friend who also has campag 9. We changed both wheels and
rode out to test. The sound stayed on my bike and with my wheels on his
bike he had no sound."

Craig said:

Quoted message said:

Rims? If OpenPro, it could be the loose wedge syndrome.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

From the original POST: NOTE:

"Then just to make sure it was the hub before dismantling I changed
wheels with a friend who also has campag 9. We changed both wheels and
rode out to test. The sound stayed on my bike and with my wheels on his
bike he had no sound."

This one gets weirder...

I rode my friends bike with his wheels, and the noise stayed with me.

He rode my bike, and it was silent.

I then rode my bike with yet another rear wheel and it was silent.

We both have Mavic OpenPro with the same Campag 9 hubs and gearing. It
appears that both our rear wheels have developed the same sound. The
reason the sound only occurs when I cycle on either bike is that I weigh
82 kg and my friend weighs 72 kg.

I suspect the sound is from the rim and I have ordered a new one today.
My friend will live with his problem for a while longer.

I just hope its not the hub...

Thanks for all of your input into this one guys....

Garry Jones

Garry Jones said:

This one gets weirder...

I rode my friends bike with his wheels, and the noise stayed with me.

He rode my bike, and it was silent.

I then rode my bike with yet another rear wheel and it was silent.

We both have Mavic OpenPro with the same Campag 9 hubs and gearing. It
appears that both our rear wheels have developed the same sound. The
reason the sound only occurs when I cycle on either bike is that I weigh
82 kg and my friend weighs 72 kg.

I suspect the sound is from the rim and I have ordered a new one today.
My friend will live with his problem for a while longer.

Thanks for the updates on the mystery. How's the spoke tension in the
wheel (and in your friend's)? Sounds like the spokes might be a little
loose given how dependent it is on the applied load. (I know you
mentioned and dismissed this initially, but it wasn't clear if you
tried using a higher tension. Much easier than replacing the rim.)

Quoted message said:

We both have Mavic OpenPro with the same Campag 9 hubs and gearing. It
appears that both our rear wheels have developed the same sound. The
reason the sound only occurs when I cycle on either bike is that I weigh
82 kg and my friend weighs 72 kg.

I suspect the sound is from the rim and I have ordered a new one today.
My friend will live with his problem for a while longer.

Mavic OpenPro wheels are notorious for this "click" noise that you are
hearing. Someone told me about the DROP of oil in every nipple hole and it
actually fixed the "click." Try it out. It works for about a year or until
the oil washes out.

Good luck.

Quoted message said:

I note with alarm that Blair and Peter have offered
suggestions involving the inside of your silent when swapped
wheel, so I'm afraid that my foolish reply led them down the
wrong path.

Maybe. The impression I got is that he'd actually
changed the rims out and kept the hubs. Anyway.

A *bike* that creaks when the wheel goes around
no matter whose wheel it is?

One guess: neither wheel is true, and one of the brake
pads on the noisy bike is barely rubbing a tire.

Another: Perhaps it's a slightly splayed lug, and the
skewer is being given a bending stress.

--Blair
"What kind of clothespin is he using
to hold the baseball cards on?"

Garry Jones said:

I rode my friends bike with his wheels, and the noise stayed with me.

He rode my bike, and it was silent.

How much bigger are you than he?

Quoted message said:

I then rode my bike with yet another rear wheel and it was silent.

Use that wheel. It's mechanically more stable than yours.

Quoted message said:

We both have Mavic OpenPro with the same Campag 9 hubs and gearing. It
appears that both our rear wheels have developed the same sound. The
reason the sound only occurs when I cycle on either bike is that I weigh
82 kg and my friend weighs 72 kg.

Bingo. You're stressing the whole system harder than he is.

You may be un-tensioning spokes, even if just enough that
two spokes can rub together, if your spokes interlace.
It will also deform the tires differently, allowing any
unevenness in the rubber to come out as music.

Wierdest possible explanation: your legs are causing
uneven vortex shedding that makes the spokes sing with
an alternation that your friend doesn't generate (this
doesn't require you to pedal, because these vortices are
oscillatory). Hey. It could happen.

Quoted message said:

I suspect the sound is from the rim and I have ordered a new one today.
My friend will live with his problem for a while longer.

You might also try getting your spokes tensioned higher.

Quoted message said:

I just hope its not the hub...

I'd be dismayed if a Campy hub couldn't handle an 82-kg
powerplant. I'm 90 kg and don't get that sort of creaking
from 20-year-old Shimano gear...

--Blair
"Not getting smaller. Just
getting harder."

Blair P. Houghton said:

Use that wheel. It's mechanically more stable than yours.

Should have mentioned it is an old rear wheel off of a training bike
with a standard 6 speed cog freewheel mech.

Quoted message said:

Wierdest possible explanation: your legs are causing
uneven vortex shedding that makes the spokes sing with
an alternation that your friend doesn't generate (this
doesn't require you to pedal, because these vortices are
oscillatory). Hey. It could happen.

Yes, but this happens when I am not pedaling.

Quoted message said:

You might also try getting your spokes tensioned higher.

They were very tensioned on the right hand side and not so much on the
left.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just hope its not the hub...

Quoted message said:

I'd be dismayed if a Campy hub couldn't handle an 82-kg
powerplant. I'm 90 kg and don't get that sort of creaking
from 20-year-old Shimano gear...

It should not be the hub as friend has the noise as well. One hub =
maybe, two hub = very unlikely. Note these bikes are bought at different
times in different shops. But the same local bike shop man has trued
both of our wheels.......

It still does not sound like spoke noise though.

However, Craig's tip was interesting. Recently two of the circular rings
around nipples became detached and rolled up and down on their spokes
until I cut them off. That's my main reason for buying a new rim, I need
one anyway. I broke a rim in 2001 in a week long event. I had it fixed
over night, new rim, but the local shop there did not have the correct
spokes so my old spokes were reused on the new rim. I was told to get
them changed when I got back home, but I never bothered.

Should I avoid now Mavic rims? Give me a good tip on a good rim for
about the same price. (I pay about $45 a rim out here in Sweden).

Garry Jones
English Cyclist ResIDING in Sweden

Blair P. Houghton said:

Use that wheel. It's mechanically more stable than yours.

Should have mentioned it is an old rear wheel off of a training bike
with a standard 6 speed cog freewheel mech.

Quoted message said:

Wierdest possible explanation: your legs are causing
uneven vortex shedding that makes the spokes sing with
an alternation that your friend doesn't generate (this
doesn't require you to pedal, because these vortices are
oscillatory). Hey. It could happen.

Yes, but this happens when I am not pedaling.

Quoted message said:

You might also try getting your spokes tensioned higher.

They were very tensioned on the right hand side and not so much on the
left.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just hope its not the hub...

Quoted message said:

I'd be dismayed if a Campy hub couldn't handle an 82-kg
powerplant. I'm 90 kg and don't get that sort of creaking
from 20-year-old Shimano gear...

It should not be the hub as friend has the noise as well. One hub =
maybe, two hub = very unlikely. Note these bikes are bought at different
times in different shops. But the same local bike shop man has trued
both of our wheels.......

It still does not sound like spoke noise though.

However, Craig's tip was interesting. Recently two of the circular rings
around nipples became detached and rolled up and down on their spokes
until I cut them off. That's my main reason for buying a new rim, I need
one anyway. I broke a rim in 2001 in a week long event. I had it fixed
over night, new rim, but the local shop there did not have the correct
spokes so my old spokes were reused on the new rim. I was told to get
them changed when I got back home, but I never bothered.

Should I avoid now Mavic rims? Give me a good tip on a good rim for
about the same price. (I pay about $45 a rim out here in Sweden).

Garry Jones
English Cyclist ResIDING in Sweden

Garry Jones wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Craig said:

Quoted message said:

Rims? If OpenPro, it could be the loose wedge syndrome.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

From the original POST: NOTE:

"Then just to make sure it was the hub before dismantling I changed
wheels with a friend who also has campag 9. We changed both wheels and
rode out to test. The sound stayed on my bike and with my wheels on his
bike he had no sound."

This one gets weirder...

I rode my friends bike with his wheels, and the noise stayed with me.

He rode my bike, and it was silent.

I then rode my bike with yet another rear wheel and it was silent.

We both have Mavic OpenPro with the same Campag 9 hubs and gearing. It
appears that both our rear wheels have developed the same sound. The
reason the sound only occurs when I cycle on either bike is that I weigh
82 kg and my friend weighs 72 kg.

Shaping the spokes at the crossing point so that they make a definite bend
in wheel contruction will result in a more stable wheel. without the
shaping, the spokes will flex no matter how high the tension, and so result
in an inferior build. Try it with your old rim.

Trevor