strange ideas from vegetarians

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

http://www.quotegarden.com/vegetarianism.html

Excellent post.

Quoted message said:

Quotations about Vegetarianism

A vegetarian is a person who won't eat anything that can have children.
~David Brenner

You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the
rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. ~Harvey
Diamond

Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the
victims he intends to eat until he eats them. ~Samuel Butler,
Note-Books, 1912

Dear Lord, I've been asked, nay commanded, to thank Thee for the
Christmas turkey before us... a turkey which was no doubt a lively,
intelligent bird... a social being... capable of actual affection...
nuzzling its young with almost human-like compassion. Anyway, it's
dead and we're gonna eat it. Please give our respects to its family.
~Berke Breathed, Bloom County Babylon

If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.
~Paul McCartney

Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in
the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing
happens but decay. ~George Bernard Shaw

One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for
it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously
devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of
bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with
vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of
every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau

How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg

The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the
wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile
accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real
people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal
Barnard, M.D.

Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my
fishburger and I realize, Oh my God. I could be eating a slow learner.
~Lynda Montgomery

Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends. ~George Bernard
Shaw

We don't need to eat anyone who would run, swim, or fly away if he
could. ~James Cromwell

If you knew how meat was made, you'd probably lose your lunch. ~k.d.
lang

Nothing more strongly arouses our disgust than cannibalism, yet we make
the same impression on Buddhists and vegetarians, for we feed on
babies, though not our own. ~Robert Louis Stevenson

My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of
eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will
contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by
mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small
traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of
the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures. ~George
Bernard Shaw

I did not become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of
the chickens. ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, quoted in You Said a Mouthful
edited by Ronald D. Fuchs

Vegetarianism is harmless enough, though it's apt to give a person wind
and self-righteousness. ~Robert Hutchinson

Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his little animal friends.
~Author Unknown

Fork: An instrument used chiefly for the purpose of putting dead
animals into the mouth. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

My perspective of veganism was most affected by learning that the veal
calf is a by-product of dairying, and that in essence there is a slice
of veal in every glass of what I had thought was an innocuous white
liquid - milk. ~Rynn Berry

Nothing spoils lunch any quicker than a rogue meatball rampaging
through your spaghetti. ~Jim Davis

Do vegetarians eat animal crackers? ~Author Unknown

If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?
~Author Unknown

Vegetarian - that's an old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter." ~Andy
Rooney

I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight. ~Rita
Rudner

Most vegetarians I ever see looked enough like their food to be
classified as cannibals. ~Finley Peter Dunne

Vegetarian: A person who eats only side dishes. ~Gerald Lieberman

In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death - even vegetarians.
~Mr. Spock, Star Trek, "Wolf in the Fold"

The human body has no more need for cows' milk than it does for dogs'
milk, horses' milk, or giraffes' milk. ~Michael Klaper, M.D., author
of Vegan Nutrition: Pure & Simple

Tongue - a variety of meat, rarely served because it clearly crosses
the line between a cut of beef and a piece of a dead cow. ~Bob Ekstrom

Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and
pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk, National
Director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

I will not eat anything that walks, runs, skips, hops or crawls. God
knows that I've crawled on occasion, and I'm glad that no one ate me.
~Alex Poulos

We all love animals. Why do we call some "pets" and others "dinner?"
~k.d. lang

Coexistence... what the farmer does with the turkey - until
Thanksgiving. ~Mike Connolly

I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a
network executive or a politician. ~Marty Feldman

I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because
I hate plants. ~A. Whitney Brown

A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows.
~George Bernard Shaw

A man of my spiritual intensity does not eat corpses. ~George Bernard
Shaw

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? ~Author
Unknown

I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and
people like that. ~Oscar Wilde

There is no substitute for mother's milk. ~Martin H. Fischer

I've found without question that the best way to lead others to a more
plant-based diet is by example - to lead with your fork, not your
mouth. ~Bernie Wilke

All normal people love meat. If I went to a barbeque and there was no
meat, I would say, "Yo Goober! Where's the meat?" I'm trying to
impress people here, Lisa. You don't win friends with salad. ~Matt
Groening, The Simpsons, spoken by the character Homer Simpson

Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We
live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an
early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such
as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder
of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci

I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in
its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the
savage tribes have left off eating each other.... ~Henry David
Thoreau, Walden, 1854

I venture to maintain that there are multitudes to whom the necessity
of discharging the duties of a butcher would be so inexpressibly
painful and revolting, that if they could obtain a flesh diet on no
other condition, they would relinquish it forever. ~W.E.H. Lecky

You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is
concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we
expect any ideal conditions on this earth? ~George Bernard Shaw

I just could not stand the idea of eating meat - I really do think that
it has made me calmer.... People's general awareness is getting much
better, even down to buying a pint of milk: the fact that the calves
are actually killed so that the milk doesn't go to them but to us
cannot really be right, and if you have seen a cow in a state of
extreme distress because it cannot understand why its calf isn't by, it
can make you think a lot. ~Kate Bush

I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and
eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it
processed for you. ~Margi Clark

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only,
but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the
human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy

As soon as I realized that I didn't need meat to survive or to be in
good health, I began to see how forlorn it all is. If only we had a
different mentality about the drama of the cowboy and the range and all
the rest of it. It's a very romantic notion, an entrenched part of
American culture, but I've seen, for example, pigs waiting to be
slaughtered, and their hysteria and panic was something I shall never
forget. ~Cloris Leachman

We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel
and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and
admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow
our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always
clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily,
all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank.
~Rabindranath Tagore

Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from
flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what
state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore
and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth
tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment
the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived.
How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and
hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the
stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste,
which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and
serums from mortal wounds? ~Plutarch

It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary
preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or
digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror does
not excite intolerable loathing and disgust. ~Percy Bysshe Shelley,
Queen Mab Notes

Vegetarianism can easily reach religious proportions. Refraining from
meat on moral grounds serves to dignify feelings of guilt toward
sad-eyed, furry creatures and substitutes righteousness for
squeamishness. ~Bill Griffith, Griffith Observatory comic strip, 1977

To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human
being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake
of the human body. ~Mahatma Gandhi

A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen:
"Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times.
Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and
they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but
sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process
alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of
small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd
probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody
gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything." ~Slaughterhouse
1997

I eat everything that nature voluntarily gives: fruits, vegetables,
and the products of plants. But I ask you to spare me what animals are
forced to surrender: meat, milk, and cheese. ~Author Unknown (Thank
you, Eric.)

Think of me tonite
For that which you savor
Did it give you something real,
or could you taste the pain of my death in its flavor?
~Wayne K. Tolson, from "Food Forethought"

Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of
life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert
Einstein

I do not like eating meat because I have seen lambs and pigs killed. I
saw and felt their pain. They felt the approaching death. I could not
bear it. I cried like a child. I ran up a hill and could not breathe.
I felt that I was choking. I felt the death of the lamb. ~Vaslav
Nijinsky

Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal
you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a
cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead,
would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the
emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for
your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to
waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice?
~Anonymous

***

TC

Great post, TC. If it wasn't for your subject header, I'd have guessed
a vegan posted it.

Krane said:

Great post, TC. If it wasn't for your subject header, I'd have guessed
a vegan posted it.

I think that post is a great exercise in the identification of badly
skewed perceptions. Vegetarians will say "What a graet bunch of
inciteful quotes", while normal people will think "Are vegetarians that
far out of touch with reality and that illogical in their thinking".

Here is a good example:

"One farmer says to me, "You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for
it furnishes nothing to make the bones with;" and so he religiously
devotes a part of his day to supplying himself with the raw material of

bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with
vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of

every obstacle. ~Henry David Thoreau"

This completely ignores the fact that an Ox is, by its biology, a
vegetarian and that humans are, by their biology, omnivorous
carnivores.

Another one:

"How can you eat anything with eyes? ~Will Kellogg "

Seal eyes are a delicacy for the Inuit and the Eskimos. It provides
them with vitamin A which is essential for their survival. The fact
that an animal has eyes mean nothing when it comes to shear survival.
How can any self-respecting intelligent individual actually believe
that this statement can justify putting your children on a sub-standard
and dangerous diet like veganism?

Another one:

"The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the

wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile
accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real
people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital. ~Neal
Barnard, M.D."

This is the most baseless statement in the bunch. Beef and other meats
has sustained out species for millenium. nay, millions of years. Here,
somehow, Barnard seems to think that he can say that beef is dangerous
and unhealthy and that statement by itself makes it so. Barnard
presents this as a scientific fact when it is entirely fiction from his
imagination.

It is all a bunch of baseless [censored] designed to either scare you, or
incite some strange wierd sense of compassion for the poor animals, or
just plain garbage masquerading as science.

The simple fact is that humans need animal-source foods for optimum
health and basic survival. We kill animals to eat them. We do not all
necessarily enjoy killing animals but we do it in a matter-of-fact and
business-like way without getting emotional about it. It is part of the
fabric of our existence. Get used to it.

TC

TC said:

http://www.quotegarden.com/vegetarianism.html

<snip>

you forgot:

Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the
occasional mountain lion steak. - Ted Nugent

Many of these were persuasive arguments.

However, I believe that most of these thinkers, when deprived of food for a
week, would eagerly kill, skin, disembowel, and cook an animal. Our ancient
ancestors lived with this reality. Thus, meat is a normal part of the human
diet.

I wonder if there is a form of lethal injection that would not taint the
meat? Perhaps the injection of an embolism of air in a vein would work. A
muzzle with pure nitrogen gas might be enough. Perhaps a group of animals
could be led to a room which would then be flooded with pure nitrogen.
There must be a way to be humane in the dispatch of animals for food.

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.quotegarden.com/vegetarianism.html

Quotations about Vegetarianism

[snip]

Cubit said:

Many of these were persuasive arguments.

However, I believe that most of these thinkers, when deprived of food for a
week, would eagerly kill, skin, disembowel, and cook an animal. Our ancient
ancestors lived with this reality. Thus, meat is a normal part of the human
diet.

I wonder if there is a form of lethal injection that would not taint the
meat? Perhaps the injection of an embolism of air in a vein would work. A
muzzle with pure nitrogen gas might be enough. Perhaps a group of animals
could be led to a room which would then be flooded with pure nitrogen.
There must be a way to be humane in the dispatch of animals for food.

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.quotegarden.com/vegetarianism.html

Quotations about Vegetarianism

[snip]

Scew that, a bullet in the cranium does the job, the animals I kill to
eat die a far more humane death than what they'd get from the wolves or
cougars that prey on them.

Cubit said:

Many of these were persuasive arguments.

However, I believe that most of these thinkers, when deprived of food for a
week, would eagerly kill, skin, disembowel, and cook an animal. Our ancient
ancestors lived with this reality. Thus, meat is a normal part of the human
diet.

I wonder if there is a form of lethal injection that would not taint the
meat? Perhaps the injection of an embolism of air in a vein would work. A
muzzle with pure nitrogen gas might be enough. Perhaps a group of animals
could be led to a room which would then be flooded with pure nitrogen.
There must be a way to be humane in the dispatch of animals for food.

There is a simple relatively pain-free and humane way to put down an
animal. A small incision that cuts the jugular. They only feel the
small incision then they simply drop off into unconciousness.

TC

TC said:

There is a simple relatively pain-free and humane way to put down an
animal. A small incision that cuts the jugular. They only feel the
small incision then they simply drop off into unconciousness.

TC

Talk about misperceptions. It's not so much about how the animals die,
but rather how they live. When you have 10 animals living in a pen
that was meant to house only 2, and then you pump them with all sorts
of hormones/etc, keep them in a constant state of stress (noise, for
example), and then kill them while they're young.... THAT'S what a lot
of people find disturbing. Most of the meat you eat comes from animals
that had entirely miserable lives.... all so you can save a quarter or
two on your Big Mac.

Even my meat-eating friends can understand that there's something
seriously wrong with that....

Krane said:

TC said:

There is a simple relatively pain-free and humane way to put down an
animal. A small incision that cuts the jugular. They only feel the
small incision then they simply drop off into unconciousness.

TC

Talk about misperceptions. It's not so much about how the animals die,
but rather how they live. When you have 10 animals living in a pen
that was meant to house only 2, and then you pump them with all sorts
of hormones/etc, keep them in a constant state of stress (noise, for
example), and then kill them while they're young.... THAT'S what a lot
of people find disturbing. Most of the meat you eat comes from animals
that had entirely miserable lives.... all so you can save a quarter or
two on your Big Mac.

Even my meat-eating friends can understand that there's something
seriously wrong with that....

The last time I visited my uncle's ranch he had forty-some head of
cattle roaming around a beautiful grassy field of at least 50 to 60
acres. And he had another similar sized field that he moves them to if
the forage gets too thin. He does not use hormones or any other
medication unless he needs to for their health and survival. Those
things costs him money. he also feeds them hay and grains that he grows
himself or buys from his neighbors.

He also takes care to separate them when putting them down so as to not
stress rest of the herd. And they are put down humanely.

Pretty strange to think that the "evil cattle barons" would actually be
small operations where they profit by keeping the herd healthy in a
clean area with plenty of clean air and clean water and lots of room to
run around in, eh? But that is the reality of the beef industry, at
least in Canada. Healthy animals leads to healthy food for us and
healthy profits for the ranchers.

There is absolutely nothing disturbing with the cattle operatons that I
have seen and I have seen many. And they produce excellent healthy beef
that I do not hesitate to feed to my friends and family. I still have
about 50 lbs of beef in my freezer from my last half-beef that I
bought.

It is way too easy and way too dis-ingenuous to find one bad operator
somewhere in the world and to paint all ranchers with the same brush.

TC

TC said:

The last time I visited my uncle's ranch he had forty-some head of
cattle roaming around a beautiful grassy field of at least 50 to 60
acres.

Yes. Most cattle live idyllic lives where they prance and play all the
live-long day. Right.

Quoted message said:

He also takes care to separate them when putting them down so as to not
stress rest of the herd. And they are put down humanely.

Again, I said nothing about how they die, but how they live. I think
it's telling that you would refer to some fluffy childhood memory, as
opposed to pointing out how the average herd animal lives. It's also
interesting that you never mentioned how chickens live out their
days.... kinda hard to make their lives sound rosey, huh?

Quoted message said:

Healthy animals leads to healthy food for us and
healthy profits for the ranchers.

I said nothing about the food being unhealthy. Just the lives of the
animals being miserable.

Quoted message said:

There is absolutely nothing disturbing with the cattle operatons that I
have seen and I have seen many.

Oh gawd... are you a expert on cattle operations now?

Quoted message said:

It is way too easy and way too dis-ingenuous to find one bad operator
somewhere in the world and to paint all ranchers with the same brush.

I did no such thing. What I described in my last post are perfectly
legal ways for chickens/pigs/cows to be raised in the U.S. and Canada.
It's possible to raise an animal 'to code', and still end up with an
animal that's lived a filthy, miserable life.

Krane said:

TC said:

The last time I visited my uncle's ranch he had forty-some head of
cattle roaming around a beautiful grassy field of at least 50 to 60
acres.

Yes. Most cattle live idyllic lives where they prance and play all the
live-long day. Right.

Come to Manitoba. I can show you dozens of cattle operations within an
hours drive of Winnipeg. Wide open spaces, all of them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He also takes care to separate them when putting them down so as to not
stress rest of the herd. And they are put down humanely.

Again, I said nothing about how they die, but how they live. I think
it's telling that you would refer to some fluffy childhood memory, as
opposed to pointing out how the average herd animal lives. It's also
interesting that you never mentioned how chickens live out their
days.... kinda hard to make their lives sound rosey, huh?

He is in operation about 2 1/2 hrs from Winnipeg. He's cut the herd
down to about 2 dozen since the US shut their borders down to Canadian
beef. I just got some beef from him about three weeks ago.

He used to work, as did his brother and some of his sisters at a
chicken operation near Neepawa Manitoba. I toured the place about 6
years ago and was quite impressed. Lots of room. The operation was
designed to allow easy cleaning of the chicken feces. They all had
clean water from the towns supply, the same that everyone in town
drinks from. Well fed. Mimimal use of drugs and hormones. Those things
cost money.

You really a skewed picture in your head regarding farm operations. The
farmers know that a clean, airy, clean-watered, open, stress free
operation leads to healthier animals, less use of medications, less
loss from sickness and more profits in the end.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Healthy animals leads to healthy food for us and
healthy profits for the ranchers.

I said nothing about the food being unhealthy. Just the lives of the
animals being miserable.

That may be in some operations, but the smart farmers, and those that I
know are smart, do everything they possibly can to provide the best
environment they can for their animals. Remember, these animals are an
investment and usually it is the farmers' families' entire equity
position. If their animals are not healthy and well kept, they can lose
everything with one wayward infection.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is absolutely nothing disturbing with the cattle operatons that I
have seen and I have seen many.

Oh gawd... are you a expert on cattle operations now?

I grew up right beside one in the Maritimes. My brother-in-law had a
dairy farm. I used to go down the road to Mike's and watch them put
down and butcher cattle. My uncle (my wife's uncle actually) has a
cattle operation about a hour away from me in Manitoba. That is where I
get my beef. His father, my wife's grandfather, raised cattle (and ate
them)'til the day he died at 91 years of age.

My boss has a cattle operation he co-owns with his brothers, they took
over the operation from their parents. One of his brothers started a
chicken operation a couple of years ago. I haven't seen it but those
chickens (layers) are given plenty of room and fed the best feed he can
find.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is way too easy and way too dis-ingenuous to find one bad operator
somewhere in the world and to paint all ranchers with the same brush.

I did no such thing. What I described in my last post are perfectly
legal ways for chickens/pigs/cows to be raised in the U.S. and Canada.
It's possible to raise an animal 'to code', and still end up with an
animal that's lived a filthy, miserable life.

Legal ways, but very shortsighted and stupid ways. And very, very prone
to financial failure. Or worse, diseased animals that are worthless as
food.

It also possible to cheaply raise an animal beyond anyone "codes",
provide them with all the necessities for a clean, healthy, humane life
and end up with premium healthy meat to sell at a profit. I see it done
every time I buy my beef from my wife's uncle.

I encourage the latter by buying my beef from a producer that knows how
it ought to be done.

TC

George Cherry the wannabe vegan said:

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

http://www.quotegarden.com/vegetarianism.html

Excellent post.

Yes it was. It illustrates the bizarre thought process of most
vegetarian religionists. Sad but true.

RBR

TC said:

Come to Manitoba. I can show you dozens of cattle operations within an
hours drive of Winnipeg. Wide open spaces, all of them.

And come to Ottawa. A drive around the Ottawa valley will illustrate
pretty much the same thing. I see beef and dairy cattle out grazing in
the fields all day. From the response our your detractor, this seems
to be an American problem, I guess.

RBR

RBR said:

TC said:

Come to Manitoba. I can show you dozens of cattle operations within an
hours drive of Winnipeg. Wide open spaces, all of them.

And come to Ottawa. A drive around the Ottawa valley will illustrate
pretty much the same thing. I see beef and dairy cattle out grazing in
the fields all day. From the response our your detractor, this seems
to be an American problem, I guess.

RBR

It an animal rights activist wishful thinking problem.

TC