Strange fitness pattern

[email hidden] said the following on 24/10/2006 09:16:

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've just started cycling after a long time. While getting from A
to B is my primary motivation, any fitness benefits are a definite
bonus. But I find it difficult to push hard enough to really get my
breathing and heart rate up. If I try and pedal fast in a high gear, I
really feel the lactic acid bit in the legs, but I don't feel that I'm
pushing "aerobically" with not much of a raised breathing or heart
rate. Any ideas as to what gives?

First question, what sort of cadence are you pedalling at?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

[email hidden] said the following on 24/10/2006 09:16:

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've just started cycling after a long time. While getting from A
to B is my primary motivation, any fitness benefits are a definite
bonus. But I find it difficult to push hard enough to really get my
breathing and heart rate up. If I try and pedal fast in a high gear, I
really feel the lactic acid bit in the legs, but I don't feel that I'm
pushing "aerobically" with not much of a raised breathing or heart
rate. Any ideas as to what gives?

First question, what sort of cadence are you pedalling at?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. I even looked up
cadence in the dictionary:

cadence noun 1 a fall of pitch in the voice. 2 the rising and falling
of the voice in speaking. 3 rhythm or beat. 4 music a succession of
notes that closes a musical passage.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c: French, from Latin cadere to fall.

but don't understand how this relates to cycling. I find that I get
significant lactic acid burn in my legs while pedalling at a fair lick
in a high gear while still sitting down. If you mean how many pedal
turns per second/minute, then I don't know and would have to go and
count.

[email hidden] wrote on 24/10/2006 09:16 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've just started cycling after a long time. While getting from A
to B is my primary motivation, any fitness benefits are a definite
bonus. But I find it difficult to push hard enough to really get my
breathing and heart rate up. If I try and pedal fast in a high gear, I
really feel the lactic acid bit in the legs, but I don't feel that I'm
pushing "aerobically" with not much of a raised breathing or heart
rate. Any ideas as to what gives?

Give it time - it seems your legs are less efficient than your breathing
at the moment which is not uncommon starting off. OTOH you don't need
to push hard to raise the heart rate enough to be of benefit - indeed in
the early days it's a good idea to give your heart time to adapt to the
new situation rather than pushing it hard from the beginning.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

Give it time - it seems your legs are less efficient than your breathing
at the moment which is not uncommon starting off. OTOH you don't need
to push hard to raise the heart rate enough to be of benefit - indeed in
the early days it's a good idea to give your heart time to adapt to the
new situation rather than pushing it hard from the beginning.

Now that I think about it, could this be because in the last few months
my only real exercise apart from walking to work (and elsewhere) has
been swimming. I'm still working on my swimming, and my legs are weak.
If this is the case, then the cycling may add some balance.

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd said:

First question, what sort of cadence are you pedalling at?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. I even looked up
cadence in the dictionary:

cadence noun 1 a fall of pitch in the voice. 2 the rising and falling
of the voice in speaking. 3 rhythm or beat. 4 music a succession of
notes that closes a musical passage.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c: French, from Latin cadere to fall.

Try definition 1b:
Main Entry: ca·dence
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old Italian cadenza, from cadere to
fall, from Latin
1 a : a rhythmic sequence or flow of sounds in language b : the beat,
time, or measure of rhythmical motion or activity

Quoted message said:

I find that I get significant lactic acid burn in my legs while pedallingat a fair lick
in a high gear while still sitting down. If you mean how many pedal
turns per second/minute, then I don't know and would have to go and
count.

Just keep at it, your tolerance to latic acid will increase -- how long
have you been on this new regime? I find that when I change to a
harder route (longer, steeper) I need to give it two weeks before it
becomes normal. Ant don't ever freewheel, especially after a hard
climb.

Also, try mixing high & low gears, get some mashing in (see previous
thread) as well as spinning. A few good climbs seem to speed-up the
lactic acid tolerence, IME.

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

First question, what sort of cadence are you pedalling at?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. I even looked up
cadence in the dictionary:

cadence noun 1 a fall of pitch in the voice. 2 the rising and falling
of the voice in speaking. 3 rhythm or beat. 4 music a succession of
notes that closes a musical passage.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c: French, from Latin cadere to fall.

but don't understand how this relates to cycling. I find that I get
significant lactic acid burn in my legs while pedalling at a fair lick
in a high gear while still sitting down. If you mean how many pedal
turns per second/minute, then I don't know and would have to go and
count.

"Cadence" in this sense is the number of complete pedal revolutions per
minute, and it would be helpful if you could go out and count. You
should probably be aiming for a cadence of around 80 - 90. It sounds
from your description that you are "grinding" or "mashing" - that is to
say riding along in too high a gear. This will produce the effect you
describe.

Your body is not a car engine, and it's generally best to pedal in the
lowest gear in which you can comfortably maintain a given speed. If you
have cable or satellite TV try to catch a few minutes of a top class
road race and notice how fast they pedal.

--
Dave...

[email hidden] said the following on 24/10/2006 09:41:

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. I even looked up
cadence in the dictionary:

You're using the wrong dictionary!
en.wikipedia.orgCadence (cycling)Open ↗

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've just started cycling after a long time. While getting from A
to B is my primary motivation, any fitness benefits are a definite
bonus. But I find it difficult to push hard enough to really get my
breathing and heart rate up. If I try and pedal fast in a high gear, I
really feel the lactic acid bit in the legs, but I don't feel that I'm
pushing "aerobically" with not much of a raised breathing or heart
rate. Any ideas as to what gives?

Make sure the seat's high enough. Your legs should be getting about as
straight as they can go without locking the knees.

Quoted message said:

Now that I think about it, could this be because in the last few months
my only real exercise apart from walking to work (and elsewhere) has
been swimming. I'm still working on my swimming, and my legs are weak.
If this is the case, then the cycling may add some balance.

The leg action/muscles/whatever are about as different as you can get
between swimming and cycling. It's very easy to get very lazy with your
legs swimming, especially if you are swimming crawl because, IIRC,
about 90% of the speed comes from the arms anyway. The primary reason
for kicking the legs is to maintain balance.

One of the things I do when swimming is to try and make as few strokes
as possible. I'm not very tall (about 1.68m) but I can manage about
1.5m per stroke at a speed of about 1m/s. As I push my speed up above
that my stroke length decreases so that I am doing about 1m per stroke
at 1.5m/s (and at that speed I'm pretty much flat out and can't keep it
up for very long)

But at the slow stroke rate you can concentrate on kicking your feet.
You can also use a float and do all the work with your feet but I find
it very hard to breath like that unless the pool is very calm which it
never is.

So you may find that your aerobic capacity is very good though swimming
but your legs have attrophied (at least haven't strengthened the way
your arms will have). The good news is that it won't take very long to
build up their strength for cycling.

But you still need to work on your legs while swimming as well because
IMO about the only thing cycling and swimming share is heart and lungs.
(and shaving if you are into that :-)

Tim.

p.s. Most swimmers also swim at quite a low intensity. I think this is
because if you want to be a top swimmer your technique has to be
perfect. You cannot make up for a _slightly_ sub-optimal technique
through raw strength the way you can in most other sports. So swimmers
talk about low intensity "base miles" while no cyclist in training
would dream of doing 100 miles at 12mph as a training ride even when on
a rest day. But there's no harm in doing your swimming training at a
higher intensity and working on strength rather than technique unless
you are looking to beat personal bests etc (in which case you've
probably got a coach anyway who will know a lot more about it that I do
and it's probably a good idea to follow his advice rather than mine. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've just started cycling after a long time. While getting from A
to B is my primary motivation, any fitness benefits are a definite
bonus. But I find it difficult to push hard enough to really get my
breathing and heart rate up. If I try and pedal fast in a high gear, I
really feel the lactic acid bit in the legs, but I don't feel that I'm
pushing "aerobically" with not much of a raised breathing or heart
rate. Any ideas as to what gives?

I've a similar thing, having cut down my 'hard' cycling to nothing after
injuring my back, I've lost a lot of muscle strength (and size - I can now
fit into a pair of trousers that were previously bursting at the thighs!).

It doesn't show itself in speed on the flat, as at higher speeds the drop
in power equates to a very small drop in speed, but up hills I'm useless[1]
while my lungs are keeping up easily in very short, fast rides - before
they used to explode well before my legs dropped off.

With the aid of lots of stop-starts at traffic lights my legs should be
back to normal in a relatively short while, and then I'll be back to the
usual wheezing, panting wreck at the end of hard rides.

[1] And am entered for a hill climb this week. D'oh.

Ben C said:

Make sure the seat's high enough. Your legs should be getting about as
straight as they can go without locking the knees.

As a general answer to everything...

The seat is high. It was set at the shop. It seemed rather high to me,
and is higher than I would have set it had I done it myself. They
looked carefully at how straight my leg got when setting it.

I haven't used the bike more than a few times. So perhaps I was
premature in even asking the question.

My swimming is still very basic. I'm working on basic technique such as
balance, so concentrating on power in the swimming is a bit premature.
I'm not yet quite sure what to do with my legs really, so it's quite
likely they have atrophied, in comparison to the rest of me at least.

I will mainly be using the bike back and forward to work. There aren't
really any hills at all unless I go out of my way. Going out of my way
means mixing it with cars, and I'd prefer to limit that as nearly the
whole distance is off-road otherwise.

Thanks to all.

Quoted message said:

Hi. I've just started cycling after a long time. While getting from A
to B is my primary motivation, any fitness benefits are a definite
bonus. But I find it difficult to push hard enough to really get my
breathing and heart rate up. If I try and pedal fast in a high gear, I
really feel the lactic acid bit in the legs, but I don't feel that I'm
pushing "aerobically" with not much of a raised breathing or heart
rate. Any ideas as to what gives?

When you're fit your legs, lungs, and heart will all have become tuned
up to concert pitch, which means they'll all start complaining at
much the same time. Until then you just have to work at the weaker
ones.

A good cardiovascular bicycle exercise once your legs are up to it is
carrying the bicycle up several flights of stairs.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

A good cardiovascular bicycle exercise once your legs are up to it is
carrying the bicycle up several flights of stairs.

Nooooooooooo!

Eddy Merckx said[1] this is a Bad Thing and, to prove his point, lived in a
bungalow.

1 - according to Mr. M. Burrows, that is.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
It would appear apparent, to me at least, that dinosaurs were
largely burrowing creatures.

Dave Larrington said:

Eddy Merckx said[1] this is a Bad Thing and, to prove his point, lived in a
bungalow.

1 - according to Mr. M. Burrows, that is.

Or "Mr. M. Borrows", as he was recently referred to in Michael
Hutchinson's book on The Hour record, wot I hav been reading.

(The book also includes a description of him attempting to climb into
The Mango in The Void)

In article <1161773524.936668.263800
@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Dave Larrington said:

Eddy Merckx said[1] this is a Bad Thing and, to prove his point, lived in a
bungalow.

1 - according to Mr. M. Burrows, that is.

Or "Mr. M. Borrows", as he was recently referred to in Michael
Hutchinson's book on The Hour record, wot I hav been reading.

(The book also includes a description of him attempting to climb into
The Mango in The Void)

That's good book that is.
--
Cheers
the.Mark