Strada workstand ideas?

Geez Ed, Did you ever think that some asses require less padding and some more on hardshell seats or
any seat for that matter? The padding amount, seat positioning etc. is personal preference. I'm a
high BB rider and I do not get numb feet...but does that mean that others don't...hardly..or that
I'm the exception or the norm...I probably neither? There has been many a century ridden by many
devout benters on the infamous George Reynolds AstroTurf covered seat...with few complaints. I've
ridden a few Wishbones with this covering a found it well..... surprisingly comfy. However, I'm a
person who routinely once flew up to 13 hours or more on a seatpan or in a jump seat. So possibly
I'm not a good judge of seats. However, Tomorrow I will ride possibly the same 110 mile ride I rode
last Sunday on a M5 seat with a compressed open cell seat pad...with no recumbent butt. But again
this is only my experience. I have a friend that loves his old Cobra seat...has had it recoverd
twice. I couldn't stand it on a 25 miler.

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO//BikeE AT St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle
and Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Craig said:

I think the Vision seat is poorly suited to an upright position due to its fairly small seat
bottom, while it is a very comfortable laid back seat. Personally I find the hard shell seats to
be even more comforable. Craig Optima Baron

Folks who get the Vision with that great Vision seat will always want to be laid back. I have
ridden my Vision with the seat upright but not for long. It needs to be laid back.

As for hard shell seats, they can be comfy once you get about 2 inches of foam laid over it, but
otherwise they are murder. The manufacturer never gets it right as far as padding is concerned.
But I do think the recent advent of ever higher cranks which mandate a more laid back seating
position is going to mean that more recumbent cyclists are going to be more comfy than ever. But
you have still got to get the padding right. And those higher cranks can cause foot numbness, but
that is another story.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Jude T. McGloin said:

... There has been many a century ridden by many devout benters on the infamous George Reynolds
AstroTurf covered seat...with few complaints. I've ridden a few Wishbones with this covering a
found it well..... surprisingly comfy....

I found the Reynolds seat to be marginally acceptable on a century once I covered the base with a
3/4" (~17 mm) high-density foam pad. This was with the seat reclined to about 30 degrees from the
horizontal.

As always, YMMV.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Geez Ed, Did you ever think that some asses require less padding and some more on hardshell seats
or any seat for that matter? The padding amount, seat positioning etc. is personal preference.

Yes, that is exactly what I do think, that some asses require less padding. And I so stated that in
my previous post (Message 3 in this thread). But folks who complain about recumbent butt do not fall
into your category. They fall into my category. I have often thought I could be a tester of
recumbent seats for recumbent bicycle manufacturers. Sort of like a canary in the mine. If the seat
is comfy for me, that means it will be comfy for every other person in the known universe.

Quoted message said:

I'm a high BB rider and I do not get numb feet...but does that mean that others
don't...hardly..or that I'm the exception or the norm...I probably neither?

Dr. Recumbent (Bob Bryant) has stated in the pages of RCN that he believes that maybe 15% of all
riders will get numb feet from riding a recumbent with a high BB. I believe it is higher than
that based on the many complaints I have heard over the years, especially from owners of P-38s.
Obviously those of us who get numb feet from riding recumbents with high BB are in the minority,
but if you fall into that minority you do not want any recumbent with a high BB. It is a blood
circulation problem and there is no way around it except to get that BB lower. But I do
guarantee you one thing: get that BB high enough and even you will get numb feet.

Quoted message said:

There has been many a century ridden by many devout benters on the infamous George
Reynolds AstroTurf covered seat...with few complaints. I've ridden a few Wishbones with
this covering a found it well..... surprisingly comfy. However, I'm a person who routinely
once flew up to 13 hours or more on a seatpan or in a jump seat. So possibly I'm not a
good judge of seats. However, Tomorrow I will ride possibly the same 110 mile ride I rode
last Sunday on a M5 seat with a compressed open cell seat pad...with no recumbent butt.
But again this is only my experience. I have a friend that loves his old Cobra seat...has
had it recoverd twice. I couldn't stand it on a 25 miler.

Sir, you are to be congratulated. I truly envy you. I couldn't last an hour on those seats you are
describing. But I am a bit surprised that you can only stand the Cobra seat for a 25 miler. It must
have something to do with the very upright angle of the seat back I suspect. But, heck, I tried to
ride the Cobra seat once and didn't last 15 minutes. It was pure torture!

My best advice to anyone who may have some doubts about how comfy a seat is going to be on a new
recumbent that he is thinking of buying is to ride it for as long as possible (at least 4 hours
steady) before plucking down the big bucks. As you stated at the beginning of your post, some of us
are hard asses and some of us are soft asses.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Ed,

Mark Stonich says, in one of his epistles, "It is hard to design a comfortable seat unless the
seat back is inclined 55 degrees from the horizontal or more (less??) (45 degrees would be more
tilted ,smaller angle).( These could have been footnoted, but I only have a masters degree).

When Mark speaks, I have learned to listen.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

Quoted message said:

Did you ever think that some asses require less padding and some more on hardshell seats or any
seat for that matter? The padding amount, seat positioning etc. is personal preference.

As is the drafting of posts. As annoying as footnotes and endnotes can be (and the people that use
them to troll) they are a matter of personal choice. So is the use of the delete key and kill
file. Plonk!

Regards,

Mike O'Brien

War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left...

---
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"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Mark Stonich says, in one of his epistles, "It is hard to design a comfortable seat unless the
seat back is inclined 55 degrees from the horizontal or more (less??) (45 degrees would be more
tilted ,smaller angle).( These could have been footnoted, but I only have a masters

degree).

Quoted message said:

When Mark speaks, I have learned to listen.

and both Mark and Ed are from Minnesota proving once again that this is a diverse group with a
variety of opinions. Albeit some based on empirical knowledge...

Regards,

Mike O'Brien

War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left...

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Edward Dolan said:

...
Dr. Recumbent (Bob Bryant) has stated in the pages of RCN that he believes that maybe 15% of all
riders will get numb feet from riding a recumbent with a high BB. I believe it is higher than
that based on the many complaints I have heard over the years, especially from owners of
P-38s. Obviously those of us who get numb feet from riding recumbents with high BB are in the
minority, but if you fall into that minority you do not want any recumbent with a high BB. It
is a blood circulation problem and there is no way around it except to get that BB lower. But
I do guarantee you one thing: get that BB high enough and even you will get numb feet....

Avoid the Dolce Vita then.

< dolcevita-bike.itdolcevita-bike.itOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>.

Mr. Tom Blum said:

Ed,

Mark Stonich says, in one of his epistles, "It is hard to design a comfortable seat unless the
seat back is inclined 55 degrees from the horizontal or more (less??) (45 degrees would be
more tilted ,smaller angle).( These could have been footnoted, but I only have a masters
degree).

When Mark speaks, I have learned to listen.

Tom, I have resolved never to read any footnotes ever again on this newsgroup (except for extreme
technical data) so I am glad you did not use any as I would then have missed what you are saying.

I have always read almost everything Mark Stonich has posted to this newsgroup and like you, when
Mark speaks, I have learned to listen. I had the pleasure of meeting him once at the Twin Cities
recumbent club to which he belongs and you learn things from him in even the most casual
conversation. He is a guru. I have got a lot of opinions; he has got a lot of knowledge.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

... I have always read almost everything Mark Stonich has posted to this newsgroup and like you,
when Mark speaks, I have learned to listen. I had the pleasure of meeting him once at the Twin
Cities recumbent club to which he belongs and you learn things from him in even the most casual
conversation. He is a guru. I have got a lot of opinions; he has got a lot of knowledge.

Mark Stonich has two websites, Bikesmith Design [1] and the Minnesota Human Powered Vehicle
Association (MnHPVA) web page. [2]

[1] < bikesmithdesign.combikesmithdesign.comOpen ↗ >
[2] < mnhpva.orgmnhpva.orgOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

...
Dr. Recumbent (Bob Bryant) has stated in the pages of RCN that he believes that maybe 15% of all
riders will get numb feet from riding a recumbent with a high BB. I believe it is higher
than that based on the many complaints I have heard over the years, especially from owners
of P-38s. Obviously those of us who get numb feet from riding recumbents with high BB are in
the minority, but if you fall into that minority you do not want any recumbent with a high
BB. It is a blood circulation problem and there is no way around it except to get that BB
lower. But I do guarantee you one thing: get that BB high enough and even you will get numb
feet....

Avoid the Dolce Vita then.

< dolcevita-bike.itdolcevita-bike.itOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

I don't believe I have ever seen a higher BB than the Dolce Vita
(S211). Apparently it is rideable but by whom? Not us ordinary mortals who have ordinary blood
circulation in our legs. As there are freaks of nature so there are freaks of machinery, and
this is exhibit A. As you can see Bachetta and Volae (new Hostel Shoppe bikes) have a ways to
go to match what is possible in the world of SWB high BB. Thanks for the reference Tom. I have
saved the picture of the Dolce Vita to my documents and will delight in showing it to all
those who like me think even the P38 Lightning has a too high BB.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Avoid the Dolce Vita then.

< dolcevita-bike.itdolcevita-bike.itOpen ↗ >

Yikes! That guy on the S211 is flying blind. His feet are above eye level, and the BB is obscuring
20 yards of road. Bikes like that are sure to give recumbents a bad name in Italy.

Edward Dolan said:

I don't believe I have ever seen a higher BB than the Dolce Vita
(S211). Apparently it is rideable but by whom? Not us ordinary mortals who have ordinary blood
circulation in our legs. As there are freaks of nature so there are freaks of machinery, and
this is exhibit A. As you can see Bachetta and Volae (new Hostel Shoppe bikes) have a ways
to go to match what is possible in the world of SWB high BB. Thanks for the reference Tom. I
have saved the picture of the Dolce Vita to my documents and will delight in showing it to
all those who like me think even the P38 Lightning has a too high BB.

This is a Wishbone RT I used to own. [1] The seat height is 13" (33 cm) and the BB height is 26" (66
cm). I was only able to ride it without foot pain if I wore very stiff-soled shoes that fit properly
(Sidi Dominator II Mega). I was able to see the road without a problem, but dark colored
monochromatic shoes are recommended, as moving bright colors in the field of the rider's vision
would be distracting.

I sold the bike for reasons other than the high BB.

[1] < liegeradinfo.dewisbone2.jpgOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

I don't believe I have ever seen a higher BB than the Dolce Vita
(S211). Apparently it is rideable but by whom? Not us ordinary mortals who have ordinary blood
circulation in our legs. As there are freaks of nature so there are freaks of machinery,
and this is exhibit A. As you can see Bachetta and Volae (new Hostel Shoppe bikes) have a
ways to go to match what is possible in the world of SWB high BB. Thanks for the reference
Tom. I have saved the picture of the Dolce Vita to my documents and will delight in
showing it to all those who like me think even the P38 Lightning has a too high BB.

This is a Wishbone RT I used to own. [1] The seat height is 13" (33 cm) and the BB height is 26"
(66 cm). I was only able to ride it without foot pain if I wore very stiff-soled shoes that fit
properly (Sidi Dominator II Mega). I was able to see the road without a problem, but dark colored
monochromatic shoes are recommended, as moving bright colors in the field of the rider's vision
would be distracting.

I sold the bike for reasons other than the high BB.

[1] < liegeradinfo.dewisbone2.jpgOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Thanks for the picture Tom. I have saved it beside the Dolce Vita. I think your Wishbone was very
close to the Dolce Vita in having one of the highest BB ever. How anyone can ride this style of
bike is beyond
me.

My experience with high BB is limited to the Vision. Yes, I said the Vision! Set up short wheelbase
with the 20" wheel up front my feet would go numb after about 1 hour. I switched over to the 16"
wheel up front and the numbness disappeared never to return. This was a difference of only a few
inches, but it was sufficient to make riding with the 20" wheel impossible. Ever since that
experience I have stayed clear of any recumbent where the BB is even one inch higher than the seat.

I do like to have the seat almost on the level or only slightly lower than the crank however for
reasons of comfort, i.e., being able to get the seat quite laid back and thereby getting the
pressure off the butt. The optimum position I believe is to have the BB about a couple of inches
below the seat. The Tailwind is the best example I can think of that observes this relationship.

I also believe that lower cranks are more in accordance with our human physiology. Nature did not
design us to be doing any kind of work with our legs in the air. In fact, we are best designed for
walking, which leads me to believe that there is actually a lot to be said for upright bicycles
other than the fact that they are just not comfy. I can truthfully say that I never got numb feet
when riding my uprights.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

... My experience with high BB is limited to the Vision. Yes, I said the Vision! Set up short
wheelbase with the 20" wheel up front my feet would go numb after about 1 hour. I switched over
to the 16" wheel up front and the numbness disappeared never to return. This was a difference of
only a few inches, but it was sufficient to make riding with the 20" wheel impossible. Ever since
that experience I have stayed clear of any recumbent where the BB is even one inch higher than
the seat.

I do like to have the seat almost on the level or only slightly lower than the crank however for
reasons of comfort, i.e., being able to get the seat quite laid back and thereby getting the
pressure off the butt. The optimum position I believe is to have the BB about a couple of inches
below the seat. The Tailwind is the best example I can think of that observes this
relationship....

Ed,

Subjectively, to me a RANS Rocket has a "low" BB height, my Sunset [1] has a "medium" BB height, and
my former Wishbone RT a "high" BB height.

In addition, I tend to mash more instead of spinning if I am pedaling downhill.

It is indeed fortunate that recumbents come in a wide variety of configurations.

[1] 12" (~30.5 cm) seat height, 18" (~46 cm) BB height.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)