Stiletto??????

[email hidden] (Edward Wong) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marci:

Does this mean your brand new V2 Formula is now for sale (at a used price of course)? Well I'm
green with envy. I wish I had your bike budget. But unfortunately my wife would not find any
humor in me buying another bike anytime soon.

Brian 02 Tailwind/02 V-Rex

And that's a new V2 Formula that she has probably not taken delivery of yet!;-) Haa....you are
correct. Rans wont even ship them to dealers until

about July 5. And, when I talk about wanting a stiletto, it's in ADDITION to the V2 Formula, not
INSTEAD of...haa. I just really love recumbents and it's such a healthy hobby/addiction. It's just
too much fun. By the way, my Saber will never be for sale. It's the best feeling bike that I have
ever ridden. Like Robert Bryant just wrote on another thread,(starting to believe in high BB), I
like him, have some issues with tingly toes but they are not so pronounced that I can't live with
them and to me, the feel of the saber is worth a small amount of toe tingles. I get no recumbo butt
on the saber and my overall body feels great on the bike, not to mention that I get incredible power
out of it. I would incourage anyone to test ride the Saber. I think the Bacchetta bike, and the
volae are really cool but I know that my neck wont stand the extreme laid back angle ( I have a c-5
neck injury). The Saber to me is the perfect combination of BB to seat height. Marci Marci

Quoted message said:

Edward Wong Orlando, FL (With a meager "recumbent budget" but having as much fun as everyone
else:-))

I just hope they got it fixed before delivering it to the customer. The person I talked to didn't
seem very interested in what I had to say although he did tell me the customer wanted to use it with
some handicapped children. This was an LBS with a chain of stores in the area, they carried BikeE,
Burley, and Cannondale recumbents in addition to a large selection of uprights. I couldn't find
anyone there that actually rode a recumbent unfortunately they were the only really close LBS. Craig

[email hidden] (Warren Berger) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Craig,

Quoted message said:

They had a BikeE E2 on the floor...they had put the fork on backwards.

This is a truly scary story. With the fork turned around the "right" way, the E2 would have had
negative trail, and would be dangerous to ride. It is amazing that a shop could be this clueless.

Warren

Ken et al,

As a follow up to our discussion of negative rake, I thought you folks might be interested in this
bike. IMO his claims for increased power are sheer fantasy. If you ignore all the hype, he ends up
with bikes which have the seat, cranks, and h'bars positioned relative to the wheels, in the three
normal positions for upright touring, road racing, track/TT/triathlon. You will notice that the seat
and h'bars move forward, and the h'bars move down as you get into the more extreme uses on an
upright. He tries to make the seat geometry appear more extreme, by having a near vertical seat
tube, but the seat still ends up in the usual place. :-)

The only interesting thing is that he ends up with a pretty steep head angle, which allows him to
run huge trail (I'd guess 6"😉 without much wheel flop at low speed.

Although, that much trial ends up inducing overshoot/shimmy, which he damps out with an adjustable
friction damper. It probably feels rock solid at speed, and makes riding aero bars less scary.

Warren

[email hidden] (Warren Berger) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Ken et al,

As a follow up to our discussion of negative rake, I thought you folks might be interested in this
bike. IMO his claims for increased power are sheer fantasy.

<snip>

link?

-Bill Hamilton

(Warren Berger) said:

As a follow up to our discussion of negative rake, I thought you folks might be interested in
this bike.

Um, which bike? Maybe you left out a link.

Here's another bike with a huge head angle and huge trail:

uva.ne.jprodeo.htmlOpen ↗

The Rodeo, as the name suggests, was designed to be difficult to ride. (Or as the rumor goes, they
had one prototype folding bike which was extremely difficult to ride and they decided to sell it
anyway, marketing it as an exciting challenge.) It took me 10 minutes of practice just to be able to
ride it in a straight line.

Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonalOpen ↗

Bill,

Quoted message said:

Um, which bike? Maybe you left out a link.

Gad! Sorry...not enough coffee?

flybike.comflybike.comOpen ↗

Ken,

Quoted message said:

Here's another bike with a huge head angle and huge trail:

I imagine the handling of that bike is....interesting.

Actually, as you would have seen, had I put the link in, I was talking about *steep* head angle, and
huge trail. Sorry again. :-(

Warren

(Warren Berger) said:

Quoted message said:

Um, which bike? Maybe you left out a link.

flybike.comflybike.comOpen ↗

Hey, that's pretty cool. Looks sort of like a semi-prone bike, though maybe the position isn't all
that different from a road bike.

Quoted message said:

Here's another bike with a huge head angle and huge trail:

I imagine the handling of that bike is....interesting.

The Rodeo is indeed, um, interesting. Riding it in a straight line is not that hard, but once you
turn the handlebar the huge trail tends to pull the handlebar even further. They tried to market it
as a game (you were supposed to compete with friends for shortest radius turns, slow riding, etc)
but I think they gave up and discontinued it recently. The only advantage is that you can leave it
unlocked and nobody will steal it. (Then again, the same is true for my Thys Rowingbike.)

Quoted message said:

Actually, as you would have seen, had I put the link in, I was talking about *steep* head angle,
and huge trail. Sorry again. :-(

Actually you said it right the first time, I'm the one who misunderstood... Sorry.

Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonalOpen ↗

Wouldn't that make the wheel wobble like the front wheel on a grocery cart? bg

Warren Berger said:

Bill,

Quoted message said:

Um, which bike? Maybe you left out a link.

Gad! Sorry...not enough coffee?

flybike.comflybike.comOpen ↗

Ken,

Quoted message said:

Here's another bike with a huge head angle and huge trail:

I imagine the handling of that bike is....interesting.

Actually, as you would have seen, had I put the link in, I was talking about *steep* head angle,
and huge trail. Sorry again. :-(

Warren

bg,

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't that make the wheel wobble like the front wheel on a grocery cart?

No, it won't. Many very stable bikes have been built with steep head angles (even beyond vertical),
and negative rake over the last hundred plus years. See earlier posts on this subject.

Warren

Ken Kobayashi said:

... The Rodeo is indeed, um, interesting. Riding it in a straight line is not that hard, but once
you turn the handlebar the huge trail tends to pull the handlebar even further....

This reminds me of the short test ride I took on a BikeE E2 with a tall stoker. It should be noted
that the E2 also has negative rake to the fork and a large amount of trail.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Ken Kobayashi said:

(Warren Berger) said:

Quoted message said:

Um, which bike? Maybe you left out a link.

flybike.comflybike.comOpen ↗

Hey, that's pretty cool. Looks sort of like a semi-prone bike, though maybe the position isn't all
that different from a road bike.

The riding position "is better for you healt".

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Friends,

I thought you might be interested in another of those negative rake bikes.

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't that make the wheel wobble like the front wheel on a grocery cart?

This "grocery cart" has already gone 88 km/h (55 mph) with the canopy off.

eklektus.comDscn0068.jpgOpen ↗

eklektus.com115 1526.jpgOpen ↗

eklektus.come rekord.htmlOpen ↗

And yes...the rider is facing backwards...looking in a mirror!

Warren

"Warren Berger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Friends,

I thought you might be interested in another of those negative rake bikes.

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't that make the wheel wobble like the front wheel on a grocery

cart?

Quoted message said:

This "grocery cart" has already gone 88 km/h (55 mph) with the canopy off.

eklektus.comDscn0068.jpgOpen ↗

eklektus.com115 1526.jpgOpen ↗

eklektus.come rekord.htmlOpen ↗

And yes...the rider is facing backwards...looking in a mirror!

Warren

Never mind, I didn't see the end of this message

_Very_ interesting bike. Looks like there is a lot of weight on a rather small front wheel. Guess at
these speeds it is all about air resistance and they aren't too worried about rolling resistance?

John Riley

[email hidden] (Warren Berger) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Friends,

I thought you might be interested in another of those negative rake bikes.

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't that make the wheel wobble like the front wheel on a grocery cart?

This "grocery cart" has already gone 88 km/h (55 mph) with the canopy off.

eklektus.comDscn0068.jpgOpen ↗

eklektus.com115 1526.jpgOpen ↗

eklektus.come rekord.htmlOpen ↗

And yes...the rider is facing backwards...looking in a mirror!

Warren

john riley said:

_Very_ interesting bike. Looks like there is a lot of weight on a rather small front wheel. Guess
at these speeds it is all about air resistance and they aren't too worried about rolling
resistance?

The front wheel appears to be a normal size. 🙂

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"john riley" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

_Very_ interesting bike. Looks like there is a lot of weight on a rather small front wheel. Guess
at these speeds it is all about air resistance and they aren't too worried about rolling
resistance?

John Riley

Where to get hard facts about rolling resistance of small wheels vs large wheels?

There is a rolling resistance formula

force= mass*acceleration of gravity*rollingresistance coefficient.

What is the best coefficient attainable with 16 inch wheel? 20 inch wheel? 26 inch wheel? I have
somewhere heard of the coefficient values of 0.0015 and up.

Sometimes it is not practical to know that there is a connection. One has to know numbers.

E.g. I think the surface of the Pacific Ocean will come up a little at least locally, if I jump to
swim there. But that is not a good reason not to swin. Although I were worried about the
greenhouse effect and Southern Pasicif islands disappearing 🙂

Tom Sherman said:

john riley said:

_Very_ interesting bike. Looks like there is a lot of weight on a rather small front wheel.
Guess at these speeds it is all about air resistance and they aren't too worried about rolling
resistance?

The front wheel appears to be a normal size. 🙂

The front wheel is the one under the rider's head.

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

john riley said:

_Very_ interesting bike. Looks like there is a lot of weight on a rather small front wheel.
Guess at these speeds it is all about air resistance and they aren't too worried about rolling
resistance?

The front wheel appears to be a normal size. 🙂

The front wheel is the one under the rider's head.

That is exactly the one I was referring to. Since you missed the point of my post, I am including a
link to a picture of my bike, which should explain things. <
ihpva.orgSunset001.jpgOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)