stiff frame for a big guy?

partsdan said:

I'm in the market for a new frame or complete bike, and im looking for something a little stiffer than my felt f50r. the felt is a 58 cm kenisis frame, which is very light (2.7 lbs) but it seems like im getting a lot of flex from the bottom bracket.
I'm a large guy, 6ft1in and around 250 lbs. i was a gym rat before i got back into riding, so i carry a lot of extra muscle (a little too much around the waist) and 235 is about as light as i get. the problem seems to be that my power goes up much faster than my weight drops, so the problem is worse now than it was before. i live in florida where it is very flat but windy as hell and alot of the group rides are pretty fast. regardless of the terrain, 250 lbs takes a lot of watts to maintain speed and especially sprint (pulls into the wind are often above the 500 watt range on the power tap, about 1200 for a few seconds on the last sprint) and anything over 26 mph the bike gets a very flexy snake-like motion even with cadences in the upper 90's.
my power numbers are not really high for a guy my size, so i think i could save a little energy by going to a stiffer ride.
i considered going the custom route and i've considered a trek 2100 (raceable and somewhat disposable). but a lot of people are telling me that cannondale is the way to go for those of us that are built closer to grape ape than a typical racer. any suggestions from the clydesdale's out there would be appreciated.

I woul dsuggest the custom route, a steel frame made with Columbus Max. There is a bloke in my club here who is huge, he has an Evolution frame made with Max tubing, very stiff he says. Nice bike aswell.🙂

You could also get a very stiff aluminum frame. Principia makes some fine stiff ones also a used Klein quantum pro (without carbon rearstays is very stiff) And the one that would be easiest for you to buy in FLA the Scott Speedster frame is nice and stiff too.

If stiffness is your main concern stay with Aluminum. I agree with those that are telling you about Cannondale being the way to go. I am not as heavy as you but I ride larger frames which makes stiffness even more important (6'4" and 200lbs), but I put out similar wattage to what you talked about. I started racing on a Litespeed Classic, and I was always a decent rider, but only as a 'diesel' type. I could not sprint, or jump hard, but I could pull on the front or up a long climb harder than most on my racing team, and I was one of the best TT's. One of the older guys on my team who was mentoring me, noticed how much my frame was flexing under hard effort and suggested when I got the money to get something stiffer. Well I built a Cannondale CAAD5 frameset and the first time I rode it I couldn't believe what a difference it made. When I accelerated it was fierce, I could sprint way faster, and my jump was do good I could easily form a break. It does ride stiffer, but not uncomfortable. And lets be honest, if I were to ride 100 miles I would not be any faster on one vs. the other. But when the power is over 700watts there is a significant difference in how fast the bike accelerates. The only downside I have noticed is that my Litespeed is better for bombing down mountains where the Cannondale can sometimes bounce a little through rough turns at 40mph+, but you won't need to worry about that in FL.

Just to be clear though, while the difference was very noticable, the Cannondale has a Record Crank(180mm) and Nucleon Wheels which are both very stiff as well compared to the cheap stuff I have on my Litespeed so I don't know for sure how much of the gained efficiency came from each item, but for sure the frame does not flex at all under power even at 1200watts. OH yeah, and my Cannondale frameset I bought on clearance for $400 which is about one quarter what I paid for the Litespeed 😄

leestevens said:

I woul dsuggest the custom route, a steel frame made with Columbus Max. There is a bloke in my club here who is huge, he has an Evolution frame made with Max tubing, very stiff he says. Nice bike aswell.🙂

Max is out of print,it's heavy as a bridge girder,and aluminum can be just as stiff with alot less weight.

partsdan said:

i considered going the custom route and i've considered a trek 2100 (raceable and somewhat disposable). but a lot of people are telling me that cannondale is the way to go for those of us that are built closer to grape ape than a typical racer. any suggestions from the clydesdale's out there would be appreciated.

Cdale caad 4,5, or 6 from www.gvhbikes.com Hard to beat for stiff and cheap enough if it doesn't work out you can sell without loosing shirt.

boudreaux said:

Cdale caad 4,5, or 6 from www.gvhbikes.com Hard to beat for stiff and cheap enough if it doesn't work out you can sell without loosing shirt.

Gary is awesome. For an additional $900 you could fully build any frame you pick (sans pedals) with Ultegra 9. That would bring in a fully built Cdale for about $1400 and, if you want an all-new bike, that's a hard deal to beat. You could of course also simply move everything else over from your Felt and just get the frame.

boudreaux said:

Max is out of print,it's heavy as a bridge girder,and aluminum can be just as stiff with alot less weight.

Besides, you said you wanted stiffness. Stay away from Steel if your goal is stiffness. Can you get a great steel frame that is light and stiff? Of course, and it will be more comfortable than aluminum...but it will never, ever, be as stiff as a strong aluminum bike, no matter how good the bike is, you can't change the material properties, only work with them. If you want stiff buy Al, unless you want to spend 3K or more than perhaps there are some Carbon Fiber frames that are very stiff, but I have no personal experience. As for Ti, I have ridden a buddies Litespeed Ultimate, and I definitely think, that while it is stiffer than my Classic, it still doesn't have the same direct, no-wait acceleration that my cheapy Cannondale frame has. It does have a more comfortable ride hower.

IMO pick any of three of the following: stiff, light, cheap, silky smooth ride.

graf zeppelin said:

Gary is awesome. For an additional $900 you could fully build any frame you pick (sans pedals) with Ultegra 9. That would bring in a fully built Cdale for about $1400 and, if you want an all-new bike, that's a hard deal to beat. You could of course also simply move everything else over from your Felt and just get the frame.

Gary's the man for a good deal on Cannondale's, Cinelli's, Pinarello's, Viners and many more. I bought a Pinarello from him and was very happy with the price and service. FYI, I'm a big guy as well and my Pinarello Surprise (7005 alum) is plenty stiff and it has helped me in many crits.
😎

wilmar13 said:

Stay away from Steel if your goal is stiffness. Can you get a great steel frame that is light and stiff? Of course, and it will be more comfortable than aluminum...but it will never, ever, be as stiff as a strong aluminum bike, no matter how good the bike is, you can't change the material properties, only work with them.

You should probably retake metalurgy 101 genius. As far as raw properties go, steel is about 3 times as stiff as aluminum.

wilmar13 said:

IMO pick any of three of the following: stiff, light, cheap, silky smooth ride.

This is just more BS.

boudreaux said:

You should probably retake metalurgy 101 genius. As far as raw properties go, steel is about 3 times as stiff as aluminum.

I don't know what your problem is but attacking me isn't exactly productive and helpful commentary...

He asked for help in deciding what to do about getting a stiffer frame, not for metalurgically correct jargon and so I worded my response as such. If you would like to talk material properties maybe you should at least be correct. Yeah 3 times as stiff 🙄 , not by mass otherwise you would see sub 1lb steel frames just as you see quasi 2lb frames out of aluminum now.

I guess now I have to give a simple explanation for my paraphasing why aluminum is stiffer. Steel and Ti can flex all day long and maintain its strength (which is not a metalurgical term), but aluminum can't. Therefore framebuilders tend to build aluminum frames so that they don't flex at all. Can you find execptions, of course. But why do you think all the seatstays are carbon fiber any more...aluminum can't flex or else it will lose its strength. Therefore it goes back to the question of how stiff is stiff enough, well with Ti and Steel you make it as stiff as you think it needs to be and still give a good ride. The result is that it is always a little "springy", perhaps not much at all but a little. Aluminum has no springy feel to it and so it is stiffer. Yes you could easily make a Ti or Steel bike as stiff as any aluminum bike, but you wouldn't because you would sacrifice ride quality for no gain in actual performance.

boudreaux said:

This is just more BS.

FYI (For your information)
IMO = in my opinion

Even so show me an example where you have all four...

Sorry I must have steped on your toes by trying to agree with what you said about aluminum being stiff with less weight. I will leave this forum like everyone else has so that you can have it to yourself. 🙁

wilmar13 said:

I don't know what your problem is but attacking me isn't exactly productive and helpful commentary...

He asked for help in deciding what to do about getting a stiffer frame, not for metalurgically correct jargon and so I worded my response as such. If you would like to talk material properties maybe you should at least be correct. Yeah 3 times as stiff 🙄 , not by mass otherwise you would see sub 1lb steel frames just as you see quasi 2lb frames out of aluminum now.

I guess now I have to give a simple explanation for my paraphasing why aluminum is stiffer. Steel and Ti can flex all day long and maintain its strength (which is not a metalurgical term), but aluminum can't. Therefore framebuilders tend to build aluminum frames so that they don't flex at all. Can you find execptions, of course. But why do you think all the seatstays are carbon fiber any more...aluminum can't flex or else it will lose its strength. Therefore it goes back to the question of how stiff is stiff enough, well with Ti and Steel you make it as stiff as you think it needs to be and still give a good ride. The result is that it is always a little "springy", perhaps not much at all but a little. Aluminum has no springy feel to it and so it is stiffer. Yes you could easily make a Ti or Steel bike as stiff as any aluminum bike, but you wouldn't because you would sacrifice ride quality for no gain in actual performance.

I'd throw you a life preserver,but you are just too lame.

boudreaux said:

I'd throw you a life preserver,but you are just too lame.

Boudreaux=troll

almost 4,000 posts and the three threads you started were all whining about the classified section... whatever. You are the man! 😄

wilmar13 said:

Boudreaux=troll

almost 4,000 posts and the three threads you started were all whining about the classified section... whatever. You are the man! 😄

So your're so lame you actually checked??....LOL .... But when ya know everything what's left except to whine about a missing link. Life is hard I know.