Steve McQueen-Cause of death

Actually it wasn't Kelley who treated Steve McQueen, so how
could he murder him - by proxy? He was using a Kelley style
protocol in an altie clinic, which included pancreatic
enzymes. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-March 31, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

More on Kelley and how he murdered Steve McQueen:

healthy.netarticle.aspOpen ↗
&ID=2012

"Kelley's most highly publicized encounter with the
medical establishment began in 1980, when he agreed to
treat actor Steve McQueen, suffering from advanced
mesothelioma, a rare, nearly always fatal form of lung
cancer. McQueen's malignancy was too extensive for
surgery, and his terminal condition was completely
hopeless. Nevertheless, on Kelley's advice,

McQueen

Quoted message said:

entered a small Mexican hospital where doctors claimed
to use the Kelley program. McQueen never followed the
full Kelley protocol; he smoked and smuggled junk food
into his room. Even so, after eight weeks on a partial
Kelley regimen, his tumor had stopped growing, he no
longer felt a need

for

Quoted message said:

painkillers, and he had put on weight. His doctors
expressed some cause

for

Quoted message said:

optimism. However, McQueen eventually discontinued the
program. He died in November 1980, just hours after
undergoing surgery to remove an apparently dead tumor mass
in his abdomen."

(Note the standard Altie disclaimer that the deceased did
not follow the full protocol and discontinued it before
they died.)

Kelley came up withthe [censored] treatment. He bears
responsibility.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually it wasn't Kelley who treated Steve McQueen, so
how could he

murder

Quoted message said:

him - by proxy? He was using a Kelley style protocol in an
altie clinic, which included pancreatic enzymes. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-March 31, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

More on Kelley and how he murdered Steve McQueen:

healthy.netarticle.aspOpen ↗
&ID=2012

"Kelley's most highly publicized encounter with the
medical

establishment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

began in 1980, when he agreed to treat actor Steve
McQueen, suffering

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

advanced mesothelioma, a rare, nearly always fatal form
of lung cancer. McQueen's malignancy was too extensive
for surgery, and his terminal condition was completely
hopeless. Nevertheless, on Kelley's advice,

McQueen

Quoted message said:

entered a small Mexican hospital where doctors claimed
to use the Kelley program. McQueen never followed the
full Kelley protocol; he smoked and smuggled junk food
into his room. Even so, after eight weeks on a

partial

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kelley regimen, his tumor had stopped growing, he no
longer felt a need

for

Quoted message said:

painkillers, and he had put on weight. His doctors
expressed some cause

for

Quoted message said:

optimism. However, McQueen eventually discontinued the
program. He died

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

November 1980, just hours after undergoing surgery to
remove an

apparently

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dead tumor mass in his abdomen."

(Note the standard Altie disclaimer that the deceased
did not follow the full protocol and discontinued it
before they died.)

How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies showing
that it doesn't work? Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 1, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kelley came up withthe [censored] treatment. He bears
responsibility.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually it wasn't Kelley who treated Steve McQueen, so
how could he

murder

Quoted message said:

him - by proxy? He was using a Kelley style protocol in
an altie clinic, which included pancreatic enzymes. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-March 31, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

More on Kelley and how he murdered Steve McQueen:

healthy.netarticle.aspOpen ↗
le&ID=2012

"Kelley's most highly publicized encounter with the
medical

establishment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

began in 1980, when he agreed to treat actor Steve
McQueen, suffering

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

advanced mesothelioma, a rare, nearly always fatal
form of lung

cancer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

McQueen's malignancy was too extensive for surgery,
and his terminal condition was completely hopeless.
Nevertheless, on Kelley's advice,

McQueen

Quoted message said:

entered a small Mexican hospital where doctors claimed
to use the

Kelley

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

program. McQueen never followed the full Kelley
protocol; he smoked

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

smuggled junk food into his room. Even so, after eight
weeks on a

partial

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kelley regimen, his tumor had stopped growing, he no
longer felt a

need

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

painkillers, and he had put on weight. His doctors
expressed some

cause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

optimism. However, McQueen eventually discontinued the
program. He

died

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

November 1980, just hours after undergoing surgery to
remove an

apparently

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dead tumor mass in his abdomen."

(Note the standard Altie disclaimer that the deceased
did not follow

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

full protocol and discontinued it before they died.)

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A question with a question is about what we could expect
from you .Just

keep

Quoted message said:

on with slash and burn regimes , one day your system will
be looked back with absolute disgust ,

======================
Slash and burn saved my friend Terry from ovarian cancer. A
cancer what most women died from back in the 1970s. After
surgery she received chemo for awhile. She's still alive and
well at 68. :-) BTW she outlived two husbands.
--
Kim Colonics to clean out your stuffed up @$$ Of all the
toxic goodies you do not pass Globs of gunk and the mucus
you store Parasites, flukes and worms galore So take a
colonic so you can pass All these nasties from your
paracitized @$$..... The most amazing BS artists there are:
members.rogers.comindex.htmlOpen ↗
geocities.comQuackery.htmlOpen ↗
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"This Alias Brought to YOU by EOM"
<[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies
showing that it doesn't work? Anth

Got any well designed studies showing that it DOES work?

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

A question with a question is about what we could expect
from you .Just

keep

Quoted message said:

on with slash and burn regimes , one day your system will
be looked back with absolute disgust ,
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Of course, Bew does not understand that the proponent has
the burden of proof.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A question with a question doesn't answer anything. I'll
take that as no. The medical literature is dotted with
amazing remissions from people

taking

Quoted message said:

enzymes.

I would not call that medical literature. Pulp fiction seems
more likely.

Quoted message said:

Anth

"This Alias Brought to YOU by EOM"
<[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies
showing that it doesn't work? Anth

Got any well designed studies showing that it DOES work?

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies showing
that it doesn't work?

Anth, sometimes I am disappointed in you. Studies either
show things work, or they do not. How about a study showing
that this [censored] really works?

Quoted message said:

Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 1, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kelley came up withthe [censored] treatment. He bears
responsibility.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually it wasn't Kelley who treated Steve McQueen,
so how could he

murder

Quoted message said:

him - by proxy? He was using a Kelley style protocol
in an altie clinic, which

included

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pancreatic enzymes. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-March 31, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in
message
> More on Kelley and how he murdered Steve McQueen:
>
> healthy.netarticle.aspOpen ↗
> icle&ID=2012
>
> "Kelley's most highly publicized encounter with the
> medical

establishment

Quoted message said:

> began in 1980, when he agreed to treat actor Steve
> McQueen,

suffering

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from

Quoted message said:

> advanced mesothelioma, a rare, nearly always fatal
> form of lung

cancer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> McQueen's malignancy was too extensive for surgery,
> and his terminal condition was completely hopeless.
> Nevertheless, on Kelley's advice,
McQueen
> entered a small Mexican hospital where doctors
> claimed to use the

Kelley

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> program. McQueen never followed the full Kelley
> protocol; he smoked

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> smuggled junk food into his room. Even so, after
> eight weeks on a

partial

Quoted message said:

> Kelley regimen, his tumor had stopped growing, he no
> longer felt a

need

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for
> painkillers, and he had put on weight. His doctors
> expressed some

cause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for
> optimism. However, McQueen eventually discontinued
> the program. He

died

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

> November 1980, just hours after undergoing surgery
> to remove an

apparently

Quoted message said:

> dead tumor mass in his abdomen."
>
> (Note the standard Altie disclaimer that the
> deceased did not follow

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> full protocol and discontinued it before they died.)

Well think of it like this, why would doctors using this
protocol believe it works? That's about as much as it gets.
Nieper used proteolytic enzymes in his own clinic with what
he reports good results.

If I go around bashing everything that hasn't been proven to
work, which I indeed I could, what I would be doing in
essence is closing myself off to alternatives that might
save my life or give me a better quality of life.

For instance Coley's toxins, I was dying of cancer, I could
take the toxins and at least get some kind of quality life
as a last ditch attempt. I don't want palliative care, or
morphine that will haze my mind. Had I not went and got the
paper and debated it, then I would be non the wiser.

Kelley's treatments had hundreds of patients alive and well
when they should be dead, with biopsy proven cancer
(according to the blurb written by MD's) Gonzalez study
showed to me that people lived longer (remember the study is
small and may suffered from selection bias as Peter/Orac
pointed out) It did did include 2 groups who (1) did the
treatment (2) did not do the treatment.

If you think about it, all you are doing is what I am
doing, but on the other side of the fence. You say it
doesn't work I say it may/does. Without the studies we will
never know fore sure. People who say stuff like it doesn't
work are adopting an authoritarian stance on things, it
would be nice explaining why they think it doesn't work and
the mechanism behind it. That way people get educated, and
change their minds.

It's likely that I will get cancer and it's likely that I
will get heart disease, I want something to offer me at
least some hope. I think it's wrong to say I am disappointed
in you just because their opinion differs from yours just
because the quackbusters have filled your mind with
disinformation. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 2, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies
showing that it doesn't work?

Anth, sometimes I am disappointed in you. Studies either
show things work, or they do not. How about a study
showing that this [censored] really works?

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well think of it like this, why would doctors using this
protocol believe

it

Quoted message said:

works? That's about as much as it gets.

Ka-ching!

Quoted message said:

Nieper used proteolytic enzymes in his own clinic with
what he reports

good

Quoted message said:

results.

If he is selling it, do you think he would report bad
results?

Quoted message said:

If I go around bashing everything that hasn't been proven
to work, which I indeed I could, what I would be doing in
essence is closing myself off to alternatives that might
save my life or give me a better quality of life.

If the alternative has a reasonable chance of working it wil
be studied. Look at the page I posted from NCCAm about
laetrile. They tried it and it did nothing.

Quoted message said:

For instance Coley's toxins, I was dying of cancer, I
could take the

toxins

Quoted message said:

and at least get some kind of quality life as a last ditch
attempt. I don't want palliative care, or morphine that
will haze my mind. Had I

not

Quoted message said:

went and got the paper and debated it, then I would be non
the wiser.

Kelley's treatments had hundreds of patients alive and
well when they

should

Quoted message said:

be dead, with biopsy proven cancer (according to the blurb
written by

MD's)

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez study showed to me that people lived longer
(remember the study

is

Quoted message said:

small and may suffered from selection bias as Peter/Orac
pointed out) It did did include 2 groups who (1) did the
treatment (2) did not do the treatment.

If you think about it, all you are doing is what I
am doing, but on the other side of the fence. You
say it doesn't work I say it may/does. Without the
studies we will

never

Quoted message said:

know fore sure. People who say stuff like it doesn't work
are adopting an authoritarian stance on things, it would
be nice explaining why they think it doesn't

work

Quoted message said:

and the mechanism behind it. That way people get educated,
and change their minds.

It's likely that I will get cancer and it's likely that I
will get heart disease, I want something to offer me at
least some hope. I think it's wrong to say I am
disappointed in you just because their opinion differs
from yours just because the quackbusters have filled your
mind with disinformation. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 2, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies
showing that it doesn't work?

Anth, sometimes I am disappointed in you. Studies either
show things

work,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or they do not. How about a study showing that this [censored]
really works?

Stand up for yourself, not the Quackbusters, you step
outside their dome and they will drop you like a hot
potato. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 2, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xLidnci4oPI6FvDdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well think of it like this, why would doctors using this
protocol

believe

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

works? That's about as much as it gets.

Ka-ching!

Quoted message said:

Nieper used proteolytic enzymes in his own clinic with
what he reports

good

Quoted message said:

results.

If he is selling it, do you think he would report bad
results?

Quoted message said:

If I go around bashing everything that hasn't been
proven to work, which

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

indeed I could, what I would be doing in essence is
closing myself off

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alternatives that might save my life or give me a better
quality of life.

If the alternative has a reasonable chance of working it
wil be studied. Look at the page I posted from NCCAm about
laetrile. They tried it and it did nothing.

Quoted message said:

For instance Coley's toxins, I was dying of cancer, I
could take the

toxins

Quoted message said:

and at least get some kind of quality life as a last
ditch attempt. I don't want palliative care, or morphine
that will haze my mind. Had I

not

Quoted message said:

went and got the paper and debated it, then I would be
non the wiser.

Kelley's treatments had hundreds of patients alive and
well when they

should

Quoted message said:

be dead, with biopsy proven cancer (according to the
blurb written by

MD's)

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez study showed to me that people lived longer
(remember the study

is

Quoted message said:

small and may suffered from selection bias as Peter/Orac
pointed out) It did did include 2 groups who (1) did the
treatment (2) did not do the treatment.

If you think about it, all you are doing is what I am
doing, but on the other side of the fence. You say it
doesn't work I say it may/does. Without the studies
we will

never

Quoted message said:

know fore sure. People who say stuff like it doesn't
work are adopting an authoritarian stance on things, it
would be nice explaining why they think it doesn't

work

Quoted message said:

and the mechanism behind it. That way people get
educated, and change their minds.

It's likely that I will get cancer and it's likely that
I will get heart disease, I want something to offer me
at least some hope. I think it's wrong to say I am
disappointed in you just because their opinion differs
from yours just because the quackbusters have filled

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mind with disinformation. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 2, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies
> showing that it doesn't work?

Anth, sometimes I am disappointed in you. Studies
either show things

work,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or they do not. How about a study showing that this
[censored] really works?

Anth, I do think independently. Anything else is an insult.

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B-OdnQaqGebTB_DdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Stand up for yourself, not the Quackbusters, you step
outside their dome

and

Quoted message said:

they will drop you like a hot potato. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 2, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xLidnci4oPI6FvDdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well think of it like this, why would doctors using
this protocol

believe

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

works? That's about as much as it gets.

Ka-ching!

Quoted message said:

Nieper used proteolytic enzymes in his own clinic with
what he reports

good

Quoted message said:

results.

If he is selling it, do you think he would report bad
results?

Quoted message said:

If I go around bashing everything that hasn't been
proven to work,

which

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

indeed I could, what I would be doing in essence is
closing myself off

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alternatives that might save my life or give me a
better quality of life.

If the alternative has a reasonable chance of working it
wil be studied. Look at the page I posted from NCCAm
about laetrile. They tried it and

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

did nothing.

Quoted message said:

For instance Coley's toxins, I was dying of cancer, I
could take the

toxins

Quoted message said:

and at least get some kind of quality life as a last
ditch attempt. I don't want palliative care, or
morphine that will haze my mind. Had

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not

Quoted message said:

went and got the paper and debated it, then I would be
non the wiser.

Kelley's treatments had hundreds of patients alive and
well when they

should

Quoted message said:

be dead, with biopsy proven cancer (according to the
blurb written by

MD's)

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez study showed to me that people lived longer
(remember the

study

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

small and may suffered from selection bias as
Peter/Orac pointed out) It did did include 2 groups
who (1) did the treatment (2) did not do

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

treatment.

If you think about it, all you are doing is what I am
doing, but on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other side of the fence. You say it doesn't work I say
it may/does. Without the studies we will

never

Quoted message said:

know fore sure. People who say stuff like it doesn't
work are adopting an

authoritarian

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stance on things, it would be nice explaining why they
think it

doesn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

work

Quoted message said:

and the mechanism behind it. That way people get
educated, and change their minds.

It's likely that I will get cancer and it's likely
that I will get

heart

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

disease, I want something to offer me at least some
hope. I think it's wrong to say I am disappointed in
you just because their opinion differs from yours just
because the quackbusters have filled

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mind with disinformation. Anth

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 2, 2004" <M.a.r.k
P.r.o.b.e.r.t [email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
.cv.net...
>
> "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> .-"]news:[email hidden].-
> ..
> > How is it [censored]? Got any well designed studies
> > showing that it doesn't work?
>
> Anth, sometimes I am disappointed in you. Studies
> either show things

work,

Quoted message said:

> or they do not. How about a study showing that this
> [censored] really

works?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is fantastic , I am glad for you and for those you
love who are alive and well due to the slash & burn
medical procedures .

The reaction to your

Quoted message said:

posting from someone who calls themself Kim was quote "
fantastic" , and that is the way it should be . However if
I posted here that I have a

friend

Quoted message said:

who saved himself from terminal cancer using alternative
healthcare

methods

Quoted message said:

, you yourself would most likely join in the deirision and
the put down ,

my

Quoted message said:

anecdotal evidence would mean nothing to you.

If many other also saved themselves by say, drinking camel
urine or eating apricot pits why would I disbelieve it?

Quoted message said:

If we look at what you have written from the viewpoint of
actually proving that the treatments saved them , then you
cannot prove it ,even though you KNOW IT because you saw
it , so your claims , although valid for you

would

Quoted message said:

be laughed at by those who choose not to believe you ,
no matter how compelling the evidence from your point
of view .

Well, it sure wasn't apricot pits and carrot juice that
removed the diseased lung and cancerous growth. She was
fortunate it hadn't spread beyond the lung itself.

Quoted message said:

We all know that chemo fails for many people , alternative
methods fail

for

Quoted message said:

many people ,

Of course they do. As far as lung cancer goes this women was
the ONLY one I ever knew to survive it. All the other died.
Terry was the ONLY women I knew ro survive ovarian cancer as
well - the few others I knew died from it.

of that there is no doubt , nothing is foolproof on either

Quoted message said:

side of the fence . I personaly do not believe in the same
things you do ,

So you believe some vitamin will cure and heal a ruptured
appendix or remove an ugly facial tumor?

Quoted message said:

so be it . You have a right to choose without having to
prove anything , I and millions like me expect the same
rights . Bew

You have the right to choose whatever YOU think is best for
YOU. If you chose to treat your breast cancer or Lupus with
bear grease and camel dung then that's what you should do.
--
Kim Colonics to clean out your stuffed up @$$ Of all the
toxic goodies you do not pass Globs of gunk and the mucus
you store Parasites, flukes and worms galore So take a
colonic so you can pass All these nasties from your
paracitized @$$..... The most amazing BS artists there are:
members.rogers.comindex.htmlOpen ↗
geocities.comQuackery.htmlOpen ↗
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~