Stem and fork woes

David L. Johnson said:

I blame this all on Mark Hickey. After all, he's the one who suggested I
get a Chris King headset for my new road bike, which didn't require any
service in 4 years.

So, unlike all my other bikes, I never had to pull the stem out. Yeah,
threaded fork, quill stem.

So, two weeks ago I hit a bad bump, and pushed down one of the brake
levers. While fixing that, I decided that the bars were a bit off-line,
so thought I'd fix that. Loosened the bolt and..... nothing. Tapped the
bolt with a hammer. Still no go.

I spent a week (it rained last weekend, so I had time) trying cold,
vinegar, penetrating oil. Cut the friggin' head off the stem, pulled the
fork so I could get at it. Drilled out the stump of the stem. It is
still stuck in there. The wedge is loose, but the stem and steerer tube
are one. Not only that, but the outside of the steerer tube is badly
pitted with rust. Since there was no evidence of water intrusion around
the headset, I wonder how the water got there -- maybe from the inside?
Rusted all the way through? Not clear, but within the realm of
possibility.

I did only spend $25 on this fork (flea market), so decided it was my just
desserts.

I have never seen a stem this badly corroded onto the fork before. I did
check out my other bikes, and they are fine, but then I do have to
occasionally re-pack the headset bearings on them. And, yes, I grease the
stems and seatposts before installing.

I hate to admit that Jobst and company are right on this... I still
think that threadless headsets are a kludge; bearings held in place with
basically a hose clamp (the stem) and poor adjustability. OTOH, I
obviously haven't adjusted this particular stem in a while. And, there is
no denying that quill stems also are a kludge, and Jobst's arguments about
how they are prone to this by design seem a little more logical, now.

I have ordered a new fork, threadless, from Mark (thanks for the deal,
Mark), but it will take a couple weeks to get it, and until then I'm on my
fixed gear.

Let this be a warning to you.

once again an example of no good deed goes unpunished. I feel 4u

David L. Johnson said:

I spent a week (it rained last weekend, so I had time) trying cold,
vinegar, penetrating oil. Cut the friggin' head off the stem, pulled the
fork so I could get at it. Drilled out the stump of the stem. It is
still stuck in there. The wedge is loose, but the stem and steerer tube
are one. Not only that, but the outside of the steerer tube is badly
pitted with rust. Since there was no evidence of water intrusion around
the headset, I wonder how the water got there -- maybe from the inside?
Rusted all the way through? Not clear, but within the realm of
possibility.

When this happened to me I used a "rasp" head on a drill -- the one I
used was pear-shaped. It was a little tedious but not too bad. The rasp
teeth will (slowly) chew out the aluminum but not the harder steel. When
you get the stem remnant thin enough you can peel it out with pliers,
perhaps slitting with a hacksaw blade first. I think the whole operation
took about an hour.

The mechanism seems to be that the corrosion products of the aluminum
are a bit bulkier, so the stem in the steer tube effectively swells
causing a compression fit -- at least in my case the parts weren't
corroded together strongly.

David L. Johnson said:

I blame this all on Mark Hickey. After all, he's the one who suggested I
get a Chris King headset for my new road bike, which didn't require any
service in 4 years.

So, unlike all my other bikes, I never had to pull the stem out. Yeah,
threaded fork, quill stem.

So, two weeks ago I hit a bad bump, and pushed down one of the brake
levers. While fixing that, I decided that the bars were a bit off-line,
so thought I'd fix that. Loosened the bolt and..... nothing. Tapped the
bolt with a hammer. Still no go.

I spent a week (it rained last weekend, so I had time) trying cold,
vinegar, penetrating oil. Cut the friggin' head off the stem, pulled the
fork so I could get at it. Drilled out the stump of the stem. It is
still stuck in there. The wedge is loose, but the stem and steerer tube
are one. Not only that, but the outside of the steerer tube is badly
pitted with rust. Since there was no evidence of water intrusion around
the headset, I wonder how the water got there -- maybe from the inside?
Rusted all the way through? Not clear, but within the realm of
possibility.

I did only spend $25 on this fork (flea market), so decided it was my just
desserts.

I have never seen a stem this badly corroded onto the fork before. I did
check out my other bikes, and they are fine, but then I do have to
occasionally re-pack the headset bearings on them. And, yes, I grease the
stems and seatposts before installing.

I hate to admit that Jobst and company are right on this... I still
think that threadless headsets are a kludge; bearings held in place with
basically a hose clamp (the stem) and poor adjustability. OTOH, I
obviously haven't adjusted this particular stem in a while. And, there is
no denying that quill stems also are a kludge, and Jobst's arguments about
how they are prone to this by design seem a little more logical, now.

OR, once a year or so, take the stem and seatpost out, clean it, lube
it well....a different design, like threadless and english threaded BBs
is not an excuse for lack of good maintenance.

Quoted message said:

I have ordered a new fork, threadless, from Mark (thanks for the deal,
Mark), but it will take a couple weeks to get it, and until then I'm on my
fixed gear.

Let this be a warning to you.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

I have never seen a stem this badly corroded onto the fork before. I did
check out my other bikes, and they are fine, but then I do have to
occasionally re-pack the headset bearings on them. And, yes, I grease the
stems and seatposts before installing.
Let this be a warning to you.
David L. Johnson

Don't use grease, use anti-seize. Grease-esp. lithium greases-can be
electrically conductive and make the corrusion problem worse.
Phil Brown

David L. Johnson said:

I blame this all on Mark Hickey. After all, he's the one who suggested I
get a Chris King headset for my new road bike, which didn't require any
service in 4 years.

So, unlike all my other bikes, I never had to pull the stem out. Yeah,
threaded fork, quill stem.

So, two weeks ago I hit a bad bump, and pushed down one of the brake
levers. While fixing that, I decided that the bars were a bit off-line,
so thought I'd fix that. Loosened the bolt and..... nothing. Tapped the
bolt with a hammer. Still no go.

I spent a week (it rained last weekend, so I had time) trying cold,
vinegar, penetrating oil. Cut the friggin' head off the stem, pulled the
fork so I could get at it. Drilled out the stump of the stem. It is
still stuck in there. The wedge is loose, but the stem and steerer tube
are one. Not only that, but the outside of the steerer tube is badly
pitted with rust. Since there was no evidence of water intrusion around
the headset, I wonder how the water got there -- maybe from the inside?
Rusted all the way through? Not clear, but within the realm of
possibility.

I did only spend $25 on this fork (flea market), so decided it was my just
desserts.

I have never seen a stem this badly corroded onto the fork before. I did
check out my other bikes, and they are fine, but then I do have to
occasionally re-pack the headset bearings on them. And, yes, I grease the
stems and seatposts before installing.

IÂ hate to admit that Jobst and company are right on this... I still
think that threadless headsets are a kludge; bearings held in place with
basically a hose clamp (the stem) and poor adjustability. OTOH, I
obviously haven't adjusted this particular stem in a while. And, there is
no denying that quill stems also are a kludge, and Jobst's arguments about
how they are prone to this by design seem a little more logical, now.

IÂ have ordered a new fork, threadless, from Mark (thanks for the deal,
Mark), but it will take a couple weeks to get it, and until then I'm on my
fixed gear.

Let this be a warning to you.

good warning. much as they're so much more inelegant, the threadless
stem really is a better system. for the future on a quill stem, as
you've illustrated so well, periodic strip-down and maintenance is
essential.

regarding greases, as pointed out by philcycles, some greases contain
free ions that conduct, and this will facilitate corrosion under certain
circumstances. it doesn't necessarily promote it, but can assist if the
right combination of conditions exist. unfortunately, this can also be
the case with some antisieze compounds. marine grease is probably your
best bet. cheap by the pound at woolmort. good for non-cartridge
headset bearings too.

finally, how did it happen? could be many things. sweaty palms on
assembly will leave salts that are hygroscopic and cause a lot of
problems left unattended. that could explain your rusted steerer too.
then there's good old condensation. and almost certainly water/sweat
capillary action down the quill sides. all in all, strip & reassemble
every 12 months, marine grease, halve that interval [or less if you're
obsessed] if you ride by the beach.

Peter Cole said:

When this happened to me I used a "rasp" head on a drill -- the one I
used was pear-shaped. It was a little tedious but not too bad. The rasp
teeth will (slowly) chew out the aluminum but not the harder steel. When
you get the stem remnant thin enough you can peel it out with pliers,
perhaps slitting with a hacksaw blade first. I think the whole operation
took about an hour.

That sounds like a winning idea. I have a frame with this exact
problem. I fiddled with ammonia and what-not but wasn't having any luck.
It's a spare project frame, so there was no rush. I'm glad I set it
aside to await inspiration. I'll have to pick a rasp head up from the
hardware store and give this a go.

Quoted message said:

The mechanism seems to be that the corrosion products of the aluminum
are a bit bulkier, so the stem in the steer tube effectively swells
causing a compression fit -- at least in my case the parts weren't
corroded together strongly.

That's what I assumed to have happened.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
Love makes the world go 'round, with a little help from intrinsic angular momentum.