Steering Tube Bearings

Randall R Schulz said:

My bike has developed an odd symptom that I'd like help diagnosing.

Quite common, actually.

Quoted message said:

The steering has acquired a kind of "detent" where it likes to snap into a straight ahead
position.

Little indentations have developed in the bearing races of your headset. The cause of these has been
debated to death here, but the cures are fairly simple.

Most older headset bearings are a standard cup&cone style, with ball bearings enclosed in a cage
which makes the headset easier to assemble. But the cage also holds the bearings at precise
intervals, and once the indentations get established they naturally fall into them. Solution number
one is to remove the cage, and replace the bearings with new ones. You can usually add in one or two
more bearings than were in the cage, which prevents all the bearings from lining up. Solution number
2 is to remove the fixed cups and re-install them, which will rotate the dents around a bit, again
preventing them from lining up in the dead-ahead position that they are now. Solution number 3 is to
replace the headset.

None of these solutions are particularly expensive. Number 3 might be the best, since you can easily
get a headset that is designed to avoid this problem. Shimano headsets, and many others (such as
Stronglight) have an extra direction of motion possible that works against the formation of the
indentations. Solution number 3 is also your only recourse if the bearings are a cartridge type
(well, maybe you can replace the cartridges, but headsets can be found for < $20, so why bother?).

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You _`\(,_ | soon find out the
pig likes it! (_)/ (_) |

David,

Thanks for the information.

David L. Johnson said:

Randall R Schulz said:

My bike has developed an odd symptom that I'd like help diagnosing.

Quite common, actually.

I expected as much.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The steering has acquired a kind of "detent" where it likes to snap into a straight ahead
position.

Little indentations have developed in the bearing races of your headset. The cause of these has
been debated to death here, but the cures are fairly simple.

Most older headset bearings are a standard cup&cone style, with ball bearings enclosed in a cage
which makes the headset easier to assemble.

The bike isn't old. It's a 1997 LeMond Zurich. It has a steel frame but a carbon front fork.

Quoted message said:

But the cage also holds the bearings at precise intervals, and once the indentations get
established they naturally fall into them.

As far as I can tell, there's only one point where the detent effect occurs.

Quoted message said:

Solution number one is to remove the cage, and replace the bearings with new ones. You can usually
add in one or two more bearings than were in the cage, which prevents all the bearings from lining
up. Solution number 2 is to remove the fixed cups and re-install them, which will rotate the dents
around a bit, again preventing them from lining up in the dead-ahead position that they are now.
Solution number 3 is to replace the headset.

None of these solutions are particularly expensive. Number 3 might be the best, since you can
easily get a headset that is designed to avoid this problem. Shimano headsets, and many others
(such as Stronglight) have an extra direction of motion possible that works against the formation
of the indentations. Solution number 3 is also your only recourse if the bearings are a cartridge
type (well, maybe you can replace the cartridges, but headsets can be found for < $20, so why
bother?).

I'm really strapped for cash, so I'm probably forced to go with the cheapest solution available. The
bike needs other work, too, but this is a priority since it's beginning to affect steering and
stability.

I guess I'll take it to the shop and see what kind of a quote they give me. Since as you say it's a
common problem, they presumably won't need to do much diagnostic work.

Thanks again.

Randy

Quoted message said:

My bike has developed an odd symptom that I'd like help diagnosing.

The steering has acquired a kind of "detent" where it likes to snap into a straight ahead position.

Oh boy, let's start this one again! It's called brinelling and there are detents. The fixes are
1: if you have bearings with retainers use loose balls-fill the race and remove one- 2: if you
have loose balls use retainers 3: reset the races in the head tube-rotate then silghtly when you
reset them. or
4: get a new HS. Phil Brown

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

None of these solutions are particularly expensive. Number 3 might be the best, since you can
easily get a headset that is designed to avoid this problem. Shimano headsets, and many others
(such as Stronglight) have an extra direction of motion possible that works against the formation
of the indentations. Solution number 3 is also your only recourse if the bearings are a cartridge
type (well, maybe you can replace the cartridges, but headsets can be found for < $20, so why
bother?).

I'm really strapped for cash, so I'm probably forced to go with the cheapest solution available.
The bike needs other work, too, but this is a priority since it's beginning to affect steering and
stability.

I guess I'll take it to the shop and see what kind of a quote they give me. Since as you say it's a
common problem, they presumably won't need to do much diagnostic work.

Unfortunately, two of your comments above are a bit contrary. Being strapped for cash and having a
bike shop do the work on this is not compatible. They are going to figure about 1/2 hour to 45
minutes for this job. At shop time of probably around $50 (quite possibly higher) an hour, that's at
least $25 just in labor. Even if they dont replace a thing.

If you think you could do the work yourself, spend that $25 and get a new headset. It's not rocket
science and you will get a good idea of how the front end of a bike works 🙂

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:12:59 GMT, Randall R Schulz <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Your experience jives perfectly with Jobst's explaination on the matter:

yarchive.nethead bearing.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I'm really strapped for cash, so I'm probably forced to go with the cheapest solution available.
The bike needs other work, too, but this is a priority since it's beginning to affect steering and
stability.

It is annoying and will make riding no-hands almost impossible but it's not especially dangerous. As
David pointed out, there are stopgap measures that can be taken until the headset is replaced.

Quoted message said:

I guess I'll take it to the shop and see what kind of a quote they give me. Since as you say it's a
common problem, they presumably won't need to do much diagnostic work.

Hopefully not, but the cost of a headset plus the labour charge will not be insignificant.

--
Chris Bird

Randall R Schulz said:

As far as I can tell, there's only one point where the detent effect occurs.

That is not inconsistent with what I described. The indentation occurs when the wheel is pointed
straight ahead. Much of your riding occurs with the wheel pointed straight ahead as well.

Quoted message said:

I'm really strapped for cash, so I'm probably forced to go with the cheapest solution available.
The bike needs other work, too, but this is a priority since it's beginning to affect steering and
stability.

I guess I'll take it to the shop and see what kind of a quote they give
me. Since as you say it's a common problem, they presumably won't need to do much diagnostic work.

Someone else suggested doing the work yourself. This is feasable, but only if you have most of the
tools you will need already. Replacing the bearings is the easiest. With a threaded fork (stem goes
into the top of the steerer tube), you will need a special-purpose wrench to loosen most headsets
(32mm, IIRC). Threadless headsets (stem clamps around the tube) can be taken apart and re-assembled
with Allen keys that you probably already have.

Removing and replacing fixed cups takes some mechanical familiarity. I do this regularly, but if you
have never done anything like this before, it will be a challenge to get it right. I drift out the
old cups with a length of copper pipe and a lead mallet. But putting them back (or putting new ones
in) requires a press of some sort. Whacking them in with a mallet takes self-confidence... Homemade
presses are not hard to build, and there are instructions on-line.

If you are mechanically adept, no problem. If unsure, it may be smarter to find a decent
shop mechanic.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson

(Phil Brown) said:

Quoted message said:

My bike has developed an odd symptom that I'd like help diagnosing.

The steering has acquired a kind of "detent" where it likes to snap into a straight ahead
position.

Oh boy, let's start this one again! It's called brinelling and there are detents.

I'll preempt Jobst and say it's more accurately called "false brinelling" since it's caused by lack
of lubrication rather than pressing the balls forcefully into the cups (a process named after
J.A. Brinell according to my Webster's). But the effect is similar in either case, so I'll shut up
and color now...

Quoted message said:

The fixes are 1: if you have bearings with retainers use loose balls-fill the race and remove one-
2: if you have loose balls use retainers 3: reset the races in the head tube-rotate then silghtly
when you reset them. or
4: get a new HS.

I've done #1 with great success before. The headset isn't quite as smooth as a brand new one, but
it's impossible to feel the difference when riding the bike. OTOH, there are probably those who can
"feel" the difference when they put a set of ball bearings with higher polish in a headset... (not
that they'd ever be able to do it in a blind test...). ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Quoted message said:

The fixes are 1: if you have bearings with retainers use loose balls-fill the race and remove one-
2: if you have loose balls use retainers 3: reset the races in the head tube-rotate then silghtly
when you reset them. or
4: get a new HS.

I've done #1 with great success before. The headset isn't quite as smooth as a brand new one, but
it's impossible to feel the difference when riding the bike. OTOH, there are probably those who
can "feel" the difference when they put a set of ball bearings with higher polish in a headset...
(not that they'd ever be able to do it in a blind test...). ;-)

I've also found fix #1 to be surprisingly effective. I had a headset with the balls in a retainer
that only lasted a month in our tandem before developing the 'indexed-steering' symptom. Picked up a
new headset from a friend but decided to try salvaging the original for awhile by using loose balls
instead of the retainer. That was in 1980 - the tandem is still in use (although not too often
anymore) and the replacement headset is still in its box just in case the first one fails.

Dan,

Dan Brussee said:

Quoted message said:

I'm really strapped for cash, so I'm probably forced to go with the cheapest solution available.
The bike needs other work, too, but this is a priority since it's beginning to affect steering
and stability.

I guess I'll take it to the shop and see what kind of a quote they give me. Since as you say it's
a common problem, they presumably won't need to do much diagnostic work.

Unfortunately, two of your comments above are a bit contrary.

Of course. But I cannot afford to mess it up. I only have one bicycle and if I do something wrong or
find out I'm out of my depth, I'm worse off. As someone else pointed out, if I need any tools, it'll
likely erase any cost advantage.

Besides, I said take it and get a quote.

I see that the owner of the shop where I bought the bike and where I would have it serviced
participates here. Mike J., if you're reading this, what would the headset work cost?

Quoted message said:

Being strapped for cash and having a bike shop do the work on this is not compatible. They are
going to figure about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes for this job. At shop time of probably around $50
(quite possibly higher) an hour, that's at least $25 just in labor. Even if they dont replace
a thing.

If you think you could do the work yourself, spend that $25 and get a new headset. It's not rocket
science and you will get a good idea of how the front end of a bike works 🙂

I probably could do it--I'm not intimidated by mechanical work--but I have no margin for error and
lack all but the most basic bicycle tools. I don't even have a work stand.

I think the conservative thing to do is get it looked at by a pro. At least to find out what it
will cost.

Randy

Randall R Schulz said:

Dan,

Dan Brussee said:

Quoted message said:

I'm really strapped for cash, so I'm probably forced to go with the cheapest solution available.
The bike needs other work, too, but this is a priority since it's beginning to affect steering
and stability.

I guess I'll take it to the shop and see what kind of a quote they give me. Since as you say
it's a common problem, they presumably won't need to do much diagnostic work.

Unfortunately, two of your comments above are a bit contrary.

Of course. But I cannot afford to mess it up. I only have one bicycle and if I do something wrong
or find out I'm out of my depth, I'm worse off. As someone else pointed out, if I need any tools,
it'll likely erase any cost advantage.

Besides, I said take it and get a quote.

I see that the owner of the shop where I bought the bike and where I would have it serviced
participates here. Mike J., if you're reading this, what would the headset work cost?

Quoted message said:

Being strapped for cash and having a bike shop do the work on this is not compatible. They are
going to figure about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes for this job. At shop time of probably around $50
(quite possibly higher) an hour, that's at least $25 just in labor. Even if they dont replace
a thing.

If you think you could do the work yourself, spend that $25 and get a new headset. It's not
rocket science and you will get a good idea of how the front end of a bike works 🙂

I probably could do it--I'm not intimidated by mechanical work--but I have no margin for error and
lack all but the most basic bicycle tools. I don't even have a work stand.

I think the conservative thing to do is get it looked at by a pro. At least to find out what it
will cost.

No arguments there. One other option is to look for a shop that has training classes. They may be
able to show you how to do the work and let you use their tools for a class fee ($25?)

Randall R Schulz said:

My bike has developed an odd symptom that I'd like help diagnosing.

Quoted message said:

The steering has acquired a kind of "detent" where it likes to snap into a straight ahead
position. At first the problem was mild and you could only notice it by lifting the front tire
gently moving the handlebars back and forth around the straight ahead location. Then you could see
the way the bars would snap loosely into the straight-ahead orientation.

Quoted message said:

Now it's getting more pronounced and it's beginning to interfere with steering when I ride.

Your head bearing is adjusted too tight. In fact it is running with substantial preload. Who did
this to your bicycle?

Quoted message said:

Assuming this is enough of a description to go on, what's happening? What's the fix? Is it
something I can do myself? I'm modestly capable with bike repairs (cables, chains, tires, spokes
except for those that attach to the left rear hub, etc.).

I'm not so sure that you are as capable as you say, because changing a head bearing isn't out of the
norm for mechanically adept riders. Your bearings are shot and the only temporary relief is to
remove the bearing cage from the bearing (if is uses on) and add some bearing balls so that they
cannot all fall into the dimples in the races at the same time. This only helps for a short time.

I suggest you get a Shimano head set because it has a cartridge angular contact bearing with seals
to keep the grease clean and in place. Its main feature is a spherical bearing support that reduces
the incidence of fretting damage.

draco.acs.uci.edu8f.13.htmlOpen ↗

Read it!

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Jobst,

Quoted message said:

...

Your head bearing is adjusted too tight. In fact it is running with substantial preload. Who did
this to your bicycle?

God, I guess. It was fine for many thousands of miles. Now I've put
30.7 K on it and this symptom has appeared and is slowly worsening.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Assuming this is enough of a description to go on, what's happening? What's the fix? Is it
something I can do myself? I'm modestly capable with bike repairs (cables, chains, tires, spokes
except for those that attach to the left rear hub, etc.).

I'm not so sure that you are as capable as you say, because changing a head bearing isn't out of
the norm for mechanically adept riders.

Then probably I could do it. Given the necessary tools, of course.

Just out of curiosity, do you enjoy being a curmudgeon? I was considering a career in curmudgeonry
myself, and would like to know if it's as much fun as it seems.

Quoted message said:

Your bearings are shot and the only temporary relief is to remove the bearing cage from the
bearing (if is uses on) and add some bearing balls so that they cannot all fall into the dimples
in the races at the same time. This only helps for a short time.

I'm sure the economy is very shortly to return to the boom times which will enable me to find
employment and all these issues of cash flow will be washed away. Then I can go back to buying a new
bike whenever the one I have gets dirty.

Quoted message said:

I suggest you get a Shimano head set because it has a cartridge angular contact bearing with seals
to keep the grease clean and in place. Its main feature is a spherical bearing support that
reduces the incidence of fretting damage.

draco.acs.uci.edu8f.13.htmlOpen ↗

Read it!

Yes, sir.

"All will be revealed?"

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Randy the Humble Randy the Supplicant Randy the wannabe Curmudgeon

Randall R Schulz said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not so sure that you are as capable as you say, because changing a head bearing isn't out of
the norm for mechanically adept riders.

Then probably I could do it. Given the necessary tools, of course.

Just out of curiosity, do you enjoy being a curmudgeon? I was considering a career in curmudgeonry
myself, and would like to know if it's as much fun as it seems.

I'm sure the economy is very shortly to return to the boom times which will enable me to find
employment and all these issues of cash flow will be washed away. Then I can go back to buying a
new bike whenever the one I have gets dirty.

Yes, sir.

"All will be revealed?"

If cost is so much of a concern as you originally - and repeatedly said, then the advice to do the
work yourself seems quite reasonable. The "special tools" may not be 100% required as well. Depends
on what headset you have and how it is built. Your idea to bring it to an LBS is good - but tell
them your financial cricis and see if they can show you how to take care of it.

Go to the library and check out a bike maintenance book.

Look on line for a diagram of a headset and read it well.

Lack of funds seems to be a very minor excuse to not being able to tackle this problem. No need to
keep bringing it back up.

Dan,

Dan Brussee said:

...

If cost is so much of a concern as you originally - and repeatedly said, then the advice to do the
work yourself seems quite reasonable. The "special tools" may not be 100% required as well.
Depends on what headset you have and how it is built. Your idea to bring it to an LBS is good -
but tell them your financial cricis and see if they can show you how to take care of it.

Go to the library and check out a bike maintenance book.

Look on line for a diagram of a headset and read it well.

Lack of funds seems to be a very minor excuse to not being able to tackle this problem. No need to
keep bringing it back up.

Lighten up, dude. I just wanted information--to know if the job is hard, tricky, etc. Money is
an issue. Doing the job right is an issue. Messing up the job and having to be rescued by a
shop for even more money than it would cost to just take it to them in the first place would be
a big problem.

People here seem pretty cranky. Aren't you all getting enough miles in?

Randy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If cost is so much of a concern as you originally - and repeatedly said, then the advice to do
the work yourself seems quite reasonable. The "special tools" may not be 100% required as well.
Depends on what headset you have and how it is built. Your idea to bring it to an LBS is good -
but tell them your financial cricis and see if they can show you how to take care of it.

Go to the library and check out a bike maintenance book.

Look on line for a diagram of a headset and read it well.

Lack of funds seems to be a very minor excuse to not being able to tackle this problem. No need
to keep bringing it back up.

Lighten up, dude. I just wanted information--to know if the job is hard, tricky, etc. Money is
an issue. Doing the job right is an issue. Messing up the job and having to be rescued by a
shop for even more money than it would cost to just take it to them in the first place would be
a big problem.

People here seem pretty cranky. Aren't you all getting enough miles in?

Im light enough I think 🙂 Money should almost always be an issue, but your responses to the
suggestions seem weighted to having to be cheap. If thats the case, the DIY approach is your only
option - assuming your original comment of $25 being too much for the current budget. It gets
confusing when you suggest that you are willing to bring it to a LBS even though several suggestions
have been made that would cost you between zero and five dollars depending on your source of
bearings 🙂

As you say, if you botch the job, its not a good thing, but if your not spending anything to try and
your alternative is a new headset anyway, they why not give it a go? eh?

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

But putting them back (or putting new ones in) requires a press of some sort. ... Homemade presses
are not hard to build, and there are instructions on-line.

I use the headset itself as the press -- no commercial presses and no homemade presses.
(Assembly/installation/pressing in one step.) I've never had a problem or difficulty in doing it
that way and I'm careful to avoid overtightening. I suppose it may be a horrible thing to do, but
I've gotten away with it everytime so far.