steel touring bikes

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring,

a

Quoted message said:

Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

Actually there are a lot of great steel bikes out there. Although many
bike shops still direct you to aluminum this or carbon fiber that.

I just went through the selection process and am purchasing a Gunnar
Sport. I would look at Gunnar and Soma, both moderately priced high
quality rides, amongst others that are out there.

Ed wrote...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

Rivendell, Waterford, Richard Sachs and others are still building very high
quality steel bicycles in this country. Dawes, Mercian and others are
building high quality steel frames in the UK. So no, steel hasn't been
phased out, although the number of high quality steel frames being sold
today is a very small percentage of the total number of high end bicycles
being sold.

All of these companies use steel that is alloyed with chromium and
molybdenum, although the label may not explicitly say so.

It's been argued that a steel frame is more easily repairable by a good
frame builder than a frame built of aluminum or any other material, and it's
been argued that steel is less prone to catastrophic failure than other
frame materials, but the truth is that very few cyclists really use a frame
hard enough or long enough for this to matter.

Any differences in ride, comfort, handling, etc. are probably due more to
how the frame is designed and built than to any inherent qualities of the
various framebuilding materials.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike.

A touring bicycle is generally distinguished by several features,
besides extra ruggedness:

-Extra clearance for bigger, more comfortable tires (28-35) plus
mudguards
-less twitchy geometry
-lower bottom bracket
-more comfortable riding position
-more reliable, more easily serviceable componentry (downtube or barend
shifters, toe clips and straps), conventional wheels
-brazeons for racks, extra water bottles, maybe dynamo, whatever else

For most of these, a custom steel bicycle is ideal. Custom, to get it
set up exactly the way you want, not just aesthetically and
functionally and with your favoured position, but also with the right
brazeons and fittings, set up for the components you like. Steel, not
just for the reliability and toughness and repairability, but because
the conventional sized tubes allow for better tire clearance along with
proper geometry.

It's true you won't find much in steel for widely available production
bicycles. But it's a new golden era for custom framebuilding, if you
shop wisely you can get one made for a better price than most
conventional production. Look at Mercian, Bob Jackson, Waterford,
Thorn, Rivendell, Ebisu for starters. Hundreds more, check if there is
a good one in your local area.
‡

Surly Long Haul Trucker

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend,

Hardly. The best touring frames are still steel. Like the ones from
Waterford.We sell many steel frames, as many as the other materials of
carbon and titanium. Remember that manufacturers like aluminum cuz it is
cheap.

and are Trek

Quoted message said:

and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring,

a

Quoted message said:

Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

I use touring frames rather than conventional "racing" frames on my
bikes because I like the geometry better and I think they suit my large
size better (6'10"/225). I have bikes made from the Cannondale, Fuji
(welded chromo) and old Fuji (lugged chromo). I don't really find any
differences except the Cannondale being a bit stiffer laterally, which
makes it feel a bit more solid at high speed and when sprinting. I kind
of like that feeling, especially the high speed stability, but it's not
that big a deal. I don't find any difference in "comfort". I ride the
Cannondale on very long rides (double centuries, etc.).

I think steel is being phased out by volume manufacturers simply
because aluminum has more bang-for-buck in the weight-sensitive market.
Steel is easier for the botique shops to work with, but I can't see
paying those prices unless you have special needs (functional or
aesthetic).

[email hidden said:

"]Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

Surly Long Haul Trucker
Bruce Gordon BLT or Bruce Gordon Rock N' Road Tour
bgcycles.combgcycles.comOpen ↗
Waterford Adventure Cycles Models 1900 and T-14
waterfordbikes.comindex.phpOpen ↗
SAKKIT TOURING BICYCLES
coinet.combikeframes.htmlOpen ↗
AMERICANO
co-motion.comAmerc.htmlOpen ↗
are just some of the more serious touring rides.
Very difficult to beat steel for serious touring.

David Ornee

Quoted message said:

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring,

a

Quoted message said:

Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

You are not going to do loaded touring but still want a touring bike?
I hope you have really, really, really good reasons for this. Besides
the preconceived notion of ruggedness.

I have and had touring bikes. I had a lugged steel Trek 520. It was a
fine loaded touring bike and served very faithfully in that role. But
it did not provide fun and sporty riding unloaded. It was a truck.
Nowhere near as nice riding as my lugged steel Waterford. Now I have
an aluminum Redline touring bike. Lighter frame and fork. But its
still a truck. Just a better fitting truck than the Trek 520. But
again its nowhere near as fun riding unloaded as my aluminum Nashbar
bike.

As for ruggedness, you do realize racing bikes were used in the recent
Paris-Roubaix with 50 kilometers of brutal cobbles at 25 mph. Those
racing bikes received far more abuse in that race than any amount of
abuse you will expose a bike to. Yet I doubt frame failure caused
anyone to drop out.

As others have mentioned, there are many steel bikes still available.
Almost all of them are from small manufacturers. They range from about
$400 for Surly Taiwan models to over $3,000 for USA made name brand
custom makers. Independent Fabrications Club Racer, Waterford Extended
Sport Touring, Co-Motion Nor'Wester are all steel bikes called sport
touring models. None are inexpensive. But they might satisfy your
desire to have a steel frame/fork with a touring geometry.

try reconditioning a quality asian 10 spd sport tourer to new touring
specs-if you're of more or less average size
this way you get all the extras-25 bearings, wheels axles-deore dirt
gaulity minus chrome-at low low cost
see nashbar and biketoolsect.com
butbubtub the really cool deal is that you now know how to repair the
expletive dleted pig just before dark, just before the pickup filled
with red necked ep's runs yawl down.

Search to TOURING RACK in tech

And visit

http://bicycleshortlist.com

for touring

compare the frame measurements therein for miyayta et al. skipping the
weird bs in the trek section- and try to find the colorado cyclists
apalachin-to your present bike's frame measurements
my experience-which is neglibile-indicates that incremental-this is a
word that means 1/8" on bicycle foprks or ten feet on a
destroyer's hull-negligible or smallish increases or decreases in
sizing gives results that cane positive or negative.
The big deal is how you're leg powers the pedal from the hips-the
correct touring size reduces energy consumption and very important-knee
joint strain and collateral lower back problems if you not up to speed
on the lower back exercises.
Real touring may require a custom fit for unusual body sizes

Check out some of the smaller builders too, such as Bruce Gordon
www.bgcycles.com
Steel is much nicer for touring, having leaned my old alluminum Klein tourer
against a post and having it slip and dent, many years back.
Steel all the way for me now, and anyone who asks me for a recommend!

-pete

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

"Pete Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Check out some of the smaller builders too, such as Bruce Gordon
www.bgcycles.com
Steel is much nicer for touring, having leaned my old alluminum Klein

tourer

Quoted message said:

against a post and having it slip and dent, many years back.
Steel all the way for me now, and anyone who asks me for a recommend!

-pete

I just pulled the Bruce Gordon website
Geeze, $300 for a titanium frame pump??? and that's without the pump
head!!!
That pump cost more than my complete bike.
http://www.bgcycles.com/pump.html
-tom

I have a steel Bianci San Remo and an aluminum Cannondale T2000 (and
T1000) for my kids. The Aluminum bike is much lighter. The oversized
aluminum tubes do have a tendency to get dents. I really can't say
that the frames ride differently.
I think that steel is more of an afficianado's material, and it
probably lasts longer. There are new steels that keep upping the ante,
but aluminum weighs less, so it offers "bragging rights" for production
bike makers.

See richard moon's site regarding steel tubing.

(Ps, I will probably be selling my small T1000)
http://www.cwo.com/~lunarlab/material.htm

I think the cost of his frame is more than your bike. It's more than the
cost of my Trek 520 if I strip off the touring racks and accessories.

And who else has a ti pump?

"> Geeze, $300 for a titanium frame pump??? and that's without the pump

Quoted message said:

head!!!
That pump cost more than my complete bike.
http://www.bgcycles.com/pump.html
-tom

Quoted message said:

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes. There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences? Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Ed

My touring bicycle (frame and forks are being built, and with S&S
connectors) is steel. Marketing and advertising has "phased out steel" in
the same way that fast food has been phased in as compared to eating
healthy foods low in fats and sodium...

My bike will be fixable pretty well anywhere. I don't see how aluminum and
carbon fibers can be fixed easily. Not many folks around in some small
town in Montana, manitoba or outback Australia who can weld aluminium (!).
Steel can be welded and brazed pretty well anywhere on this planet. Not so
for Al. Forget about fixing carbon fiber stuff.

Of course Aluminum and carbon fibers have the siren call of advertising.
Boy are those bikes EVER slick, smooth, and fast....

Then of course, you did say you didn't want to do loaded touring, BUT said
that touring bikes were more rigged than race bikes. Gotta make
compromises somewhere...

Ken

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am considering a touring bike. I am not going to do long loaded
tours; I like touring bikes because they are more rugged than race
bikes.

I hope you weren't discouraged by the disclaimer that Cannondale put
out on their Optimo light weight aluminium frame? No touring, no rough
riding, etc or we WON'T warranty our frames??

If you're scared about the durability of light weight racing frames,
rest assured that unless you're Lance Armstrong and are racing
intensely on it for months at the time, there's a possibility that you
might ruin it. But that's a maybe. For most of us, racing frame
durability should not be a real concern.

Quoted message said:

There are a few steel bikes (the Trek 520, the Fuji Touring, a
Bianchi, etc.), and there are aluminum ones (the Cannondale T800 and
T2000, etc.). Are there noticeable differences?

Same bike geometry and same tires, different bikes should ride the same.

Quoted message said:

Steel has been
phased out as a trend, and are Trek
and Fuji dumping their last inventories? (I don't see CrMo steel
used on other bikes.)

Steel hasn't been phased out. It is actually making a come back as the
retro fad thing. Just take a look at the Surly Long Haul Trucker, a
nice steel touring bike that has a nice following and so does the new
Kona Sutra (Karma Sutra as it is known as), a limited production
Dediccai steel and on the waiting list kind of bike with disc brakes.
There's definitely a market for steel bikes, but if I'm shopping for my
first touring bike, I'll go for aluminium simply because, you'll get a
lot of bang for the buck. Disregard the notion that aluminium rides
harsher than steel -- this is simply not true.

However, I will need to caution you that for the kind of riding you do,
why do you want to get a bike that rides like a truck? And most
touring bikes have a longer top tube than an equivalent racing
pedigree, which some people may find it a bit too stretched out. Ok
for really big guys and normally proportioned, but not so for some.
Some people that I personally know can't find a touring bike that he or
she can ride comfortably with despite how many times the person went
back to the fitter. And yet, a stock Cannondale R700 of the same size
fit the same person very nicely.

David.

Quoted message said:

It's been argued that a steel frame is more easily repairable by a good
frame builder than a frame built of aluminum or any other material, and it's
been argued that steel is less prone to catastrophic failure than other
frame materials, but the truth is that very few cyclists really use a frame
hard enough or long enough for this to matter.

The arguement is mute because, very few people actually do global tours
to actually break a frame somewhere in Timbuktu.

I personally only knew of 2 globe trotters that actually broke a steel
frame (an old genre Kona Caldera MTB) in Asia and they "COULDN'T" get
it fixed properly despite the claim that you can actually do so.
Problem is, very people are actually qualified to fix a busted frame
all over the world. And just because a person is good with a torch
does not mean he can reweld the frame back to specs.

Plus, there's the service invented by a North American genius and it's
called Fedex. With Fedex or UPS, just call up your home town shop and
just have them fedex a replacement frame. And Fedex or UPS will
deliver. Simple as that and it actually worked for those 2 globe
trotters. Ofcourse, they had a sponsor that picked up the bill..

David.

David said:

Quoted message said:

It's been argued that a steel frame is more easily repairable by a

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

frame builder than a frame built of aluminum or any other material,

and it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

been argued that steel is less prone to catastrophic failure than

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

frame materials, but the truth is that very few cyclists really use

a frame

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard enough or long enough for this to matter.

Quoted message said:

I personally only knew of 2 globe trotters that actually broke a

steel

Quoted message said:

frame (an old genre Kona Caldera MTB) in Asia and they "COULDN'T" get
it fixed properly despite the claim that you can actually do so.
Problem is, very people are actually qualified to fix a busted frame
all over the world. And just because a person is good with a torch
does not mean he can reweld the frame back to specs.

I think the advantage of a steel bike frame being capable of being
welded back together in the middle of nowhere was dreamed up by people
who have no knowledge of welding. The welding people you are likely to
encounter in the middle of nowhere have no training and only weld large
thicck agricultural machinery. And they use cheap electric ARC stick
welders for this type of welding. Bicycle frame tubing is 1mm thick,
roughly. An untrained welder using the incorrect welding equipment
will just melt a bicycle frame tube.

For those who doubt this, go out to the farms around where you live and
talk to farmers. You will discover all of them have ARC stick welders.
And all of them learned to weld by just welding farm machinery. No
official training. Look at their welds. They look like the infamous
chicken scratch. But good enough to hold farm machinery together.
Would you trust your multi thousand dollar frame to these welders? Do
you think welders in the middle of nowhere in other parts of the world
can weld better?

If you break down in the middle of nowhere you have a couple options.
1. Overnight or multi day shipping to replace the part. 2. Get a
truck/car ride to the nearest sizable town and find a real machine
shop/welder. It will cost some money either way and some time. But if
you have enough time and money to go touring in the middle of nowhere,
its nothing. And will just enhance the experience of the tour.

"SBC Usenet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think the cost of his frame is more than your bike. It's more than the
cost of my Trek 520 if I strip off the touring racks and accessories.

And who else has a ti pump?

"> Geeze, $300 for a titanium frame pump??? and that's without the pump

Quoted message said:

head!!!
That pump cost more than my complete bike.
http://www.bgcycles.com/pump.html
-tom

I wasn't taking about BG frames, I meant just the pump (titanium) cost more
than my bike. I would worry more about having it stolen. I once had a silca
frame pump with a Campagnolo steel head. I parked my bike outside near the
bookstore on the Stanford Campus to purchase a card. I locked the bike in a
bike rack but forgot to take my pump. I was in the store for less than 15
minutes, came back to get my bike, but noticed my Silca pump on the ground.
I first thought it fell off the frame, but someone took the Campagnolo steel
pump head and left me the pump frame.
-tom