Stealth Cyclist s.

Quoted message said:

My new office overlooks a main road in inner Glasgow.
Has anybody else noticed the strange habit many urban
commuter cyclists have of riding at night with no lights but wearing a
helmet. Do people really believe their helmet will make much
difference. And what strange logic makes somebody go to the trouble of
wearing a helmet but then not bother using lights?
Iain

I don't know the answer to your question but I have two of my own:

How much money has been spent on promoting helmets over the last decade?
and
How much has been spent on promoting lights?

on 14 Mar 2005 11:06:09 -0800 said:

Has anybody else noticed the strange habit many urban
commuter cyclists have of riding at night with no lights but wearing a
helmet.

Not really, no. Lack of lights, certainly...but I don't see tooo many
bicyclists with helmets.

Quoted message said:

Do people really believe their helmet will make much difference.

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

Quoted message said:

And what strange logic makes somebody go to the trouble of
wearing a helmet but then not bother using lights?

Perhaps it takes more time to repair a light than to put a helmet on? %-\

--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.info
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany

On 14 Mar 2005 11:06:09 -0800, [email hidden] wrote in
<[email hidden]>, seen in
uk.rec.cycling:

Quoted message said:

And what strange logic makes somebody go to the trouble of
wearing a helmet but then not bother using lights?

The same one that makes car drivers think that it's safer to drive
along well-lit city streets with their foglights on?

I'm bemused by the dark-clothed cyclists who think they're safe
because they have a tiny flashing LED attached to the back of the
bike.

--
Ross, in Lincoln
Reply-to address will bounce; replace "junk-trap" with "me" for e-mail

"Ross Hamilton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 14 Mar 2005 11:06:09 -0800, [email hidden] wrote in
<[email hidden]>, seen in
uk.rec.cycling:

Quoted message said:

And what strange logic makes somebody go to the trouble of
wearing a helmet but then not bother using lights?

The same one that makes car drivers think that it's safer to drive
along well-lit city streets with their foglights on?

I'm bemused by the dark-clothed cyclists who think they're safe
because they have a tiny flashing LED attached to the back of the
bike.

I find it funnier when someone puts on a reflective vest, then covers it
with a rucksack.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:10:15 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

Not been around here long, have you?

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:10:15 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

Not been around here long, have you?

I must admit that's true. I have been lurking, though.
In fact, I'm a regular at plenty of motorbike forums and newsgroups. It
struck me that in those communities, the consensus is opposite to what it
appears to be here. And that's why I keep reading here...it's interesting
to see both sides.

At forums and newsgroups about _serious_ motorbike riding (not the Harley
'loud pipes, T-shirts' type), it's always: 'Dress for the crash...not for
the ride'. Those who don't wear a helmet are not taken seriously.

Frankly, I don't see the difference between a bicyclists doing 25mph and
a motorbike rider at the same (or slightly higher) speed. A helmetless
head banged against a light pole is not going to survive without a decent
helmet.

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.info
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:10:15 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

Not been around here long, have you?

I must admit that's true. I have been lurking, though.
In fact, I'm a regular at plenty of motorbike forums and newsgroups. It
struck me that in those communities, the consensus is opposite to what it
appears to be here. And that's why I keep reading here...it's interesting
to see both sides.

At forums and newsgroups about _serious_ motorbike riding (not the Harley
'loud pipes, T-shirts' type), it's always: 'Dress for the crash...not for
the ride'. Those who don't wear a helmet are not taken seriously.

Frankly, I don't see the difference between a bicyclist doing 25mph and
a motorbike rider at the same (or slightly higher) speed. A helmetless
head banged against a light pole is not going to survive.

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.info
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

on 14 Mar 2005 11:06:09 -0800 said:

Has anybody else noticed the strange habit many urban
commuter cyclists have of riding at night with no lights but wearing a
helmet.

Not really, no. Lack of lights, certainly...but I don't see tooo many
bicyclists with helmets.

Quoted message said:

Do people really believe their helmet will make much difference.

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

To what?

You might like to peruse some of the articles at www.cyclehelmets.org
before you reply.

R.

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

Frankly, I don't see the difference between a bicyclist doing 25mph and
a motorbike rider at the same (or slightly higher) speed. A helmetless
head banged against a light pole is not going to survive.

Quoted message said:

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

Opinions are very mixed.

Pedal cycle helmets and motorcycle helmets are not made of the same
stuff, and are not certified to the same standards.

Many people on here believe that pedal cycle helmets are basically
[censored] poor at protecting the wearer at the speeds you describe. There
is also a belief that pedal cycle helmets can actually make injuries
worse than if not wearing a helmet at all.

--
Microsoft Sam speaks his mind:
www.artybee.net/sam_speaks_his_mind.mp3

elyob said:

I find it funnier when someone puts on a reflective vest, then covers it
with a rucksack.

Being rear-ended is only about 2% of car-bike accidents, IIRC. Most of
them, again IIRC, are cars pulling out in front of the cyclist, or
turning across them; the latter case would suggest that front
reflectives are more useful.

R.

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

At forums and newsgroups about _serious_ motorbike riding (not the Harley
'loud pipes, T-shirts' type), it's always: 'Dress for the crash...not for
the ride'. Those who don't wear a helmet are not taken seriously.

Oh, that would be peer pressure, would it? :-)

Quoted message said:

Frankly, I don't see the difference between a bicyclist doing 25mph and
a motorbike rider at the same (or slightly higher) speed. A helmetless
head banged against a light pole is not going to survive.

A cycle helmet is an entirely different beast to a motorcycle helmet. A
motorcycle helmet is designed to protect against certain impacts and
probably will protect you [1]. A cycle helmet isn't designed to
protect you at any energy greater than that of a reasonably small person
falling off a stationary bicycle.

Quoted message said:

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

Some do express such an opinion. Most, when presented with the
collected data over the years on the efficiacy of cycle helmets, then
change their mind.

R.

[1] Although I confess I've never looked at motorcycle helmet
specifications. Are they really designed to protect against impact
with a fixed object at 25 mph? Wouldn't your spine snap?

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:10:15 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

Not been around here long, have you?

I must admit that's true. I have been lurking, though.
In fact, I'm a regular at plenty of motorbike forums and newsgroups. It
struck me that in those communities, the consensus is opposite to what it
appears to be here. And that's why I keep reading here...it's interesting
to see both sides.

At forums and newsgroups about _serious_ motorbike riding (not the Harley
'loud pipes, T-shirts' type), it's always: 'Dress for the crash...not for
the ride'. Those who don't wear a helmet are not taken seriously.

That's a different sort of helmet and a different sort of argument.
However, the technical limitations of those helmets are still obvious.

Quoted message said:

Frankly, I don't see the difference between a bicyclist doing 25mph and
a motorbike rider at the same (or slightly higher) speed. A helmetless
head banged against a light pole is not going to survive.

You're starting from the wrong point, apart from the vague nature of
your assertion. More pertinent questions are ones like:
# Is there an overall benefit to society from making it illegal to ride
a bicycle without a helmet?" (An agreed definition of "benefit to
society" is required before tackling the main question.)
# Does a population of cyclists who wear helmets have, over a
significant period of time, a lower rate of injuries than an otherwise
similar population of cyclists who do not wear helmets?

Try spending some time looking around
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/
http://www.cycle-helmets.com/

Quoted message said:

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

That would help to explain why urc has never had any threads where
anybody argues for helmet compulsion or greater use of helmets, I suppose.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:10:15 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would say a helmet does make a difference.

Not been around here long, have you?

I must admit that's true. I have been lurking, though.

snip irrelevant motorcycle stuff[1].

Quoted message said:

Frankly, I don't see the difference between a bicyclist doing 25mph and
a motorbike rider at the same (or slightly higher) speed. A helmetless
head banged against a light pole is not going to survive.

If they're wearing the same helmet we might even be able to begin a
comparison. I suggest you pick up a motorcycle helmet and bike helmet
and do a simple compare and contrast.

While you're picking up helmets, if you find a bicycle helmet that even
the manufacturers claim will do more than protect from cuts & bruises
when falling from a standing position, please let me know.

Quoted message said:

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

I don't recall any reticence to enter the debate on this newsgroup.

"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

A lot of us do wear helmets, but we do not express opinions about the pros
and cons, because as I'm sure you know, it is a very contentious and
personal issue. I filter out the word h**m*t from the title of all messages
for this reason.

MartinM on Mon said:

A lot of us do wear helmets, but we do not express opinions about the pros
and cons, because as I'm sure you know, it is a very contentious and
personal issue.

It wouldn't be if proper statistics were available.

Quoted message said:

I filter out the word h**m*t from the title of all messages
for this reason.

Wow! Use of helmets has really been an issue at this newsgroup! 🙂

If "bike helmets" are really that bad, AND you want protection in case
you're not able to anticipate the unexpected, what should you do?

['You' in this sentence is not "you, MartinM", but rather "you,
bicyclists"]

Car drivers wear seat belts, even though every car driver believes he's a
better driver than average. Motorbike riders wear helmets, because [censored]
happens, even if you're the best bike rider in the World.
I really don't believe that bicyclists could do without a helmet (a
proper helmet!) at 20+ mph.

--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.info
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany

Erick T. Barkhuis wrote:

[snip]

Quelle surprise, a troll.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM on Mon said:

A lot of us do wear helmets, but we do not express opinions about the

pros

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and cons, because as I'm sure you know, it is a very contentious and
personal issue.

It wouldn't be if proper statistics were available.

Quoted message said:

I filter out the word h**m*t from the title of all messages
for this reason.

Wow! Use of helmets has really been an issue at this newsgroup! 🙂

If "bike helmets" are really that bad, AND you want protection in case
you're not able to anticipate the unexpected, what should you do?

['You' in this sentence is not "you, MartinM", but rather "you,
bicyclists"]

Car drivers wear seat belts, even though every car driver believes he's a
better driver than average. Motorbike riders wear helmets, because [censored]
happens, even if you're the best bike rider in the World.
I really don't believe that bicyclists could do without a helmet (a
proper helmet!) at 20+ mph.

yeah whatever (plonk)

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

If "bike helmets" are really that bad, AND you want protection in case
you're not able to anticipate the unexpected, what should you do?

Define this "unexpected" hazard, and then come up with some suitable
attire that has been demonstrated to protect against that hazard.

Quoted message said:

Car drivers wear seat belts, even though every car driver believes he's a
better driver than average. Motorbike riders wear helmets, because [censored]
happens, even if you're the best bike rider in the World.
I really don't believe that bicyclists could do without a helmet (a
proper helmet!) at 20+ mph.

You haven't bothered to read any of the information collated in
www.cyclehelmets.org, have you?

Indeed, I'd possibly be protected quite well against road rash and head
impacts if I wore full biker leathers and a motorcycle helmet. It'd be
a bit of a bugger actually cycling anywhere other than downhill, though.

R.

Erick T. Barkhuis said:

Please, allow me to ask nicely and politely:
Could it be that even in this newsgroup plenty of bicyclists DO believe
that a helmet can make a lot of difference, but due to peer pressure,
don't express such opinion?

No wait! Don't... bugger. Too late - oh great, another H*l*et thread...

Yawwwwnnn....

--
Chris