Staying Warm in the Cold

Tom Nakashima said:

Quoted message said:

A windbreaker does little good if no loose long sleeved sweater is
worn underneath to break the conductive path from wind/water proof
jacket to rider skin. A windbreaker without a liner in the jacket or
on the rider is not an insulator. It is no better than duct tape
stuck to the body.

Quoted message said:

Pretty funny JB, just have the guy ride with a windbreaker and
nothing but skin underneath this winter if he's in doubt.

I see plenty of riders with short sleeve jerseys putting on wind
breakers not aware that a wind breaker alone is no insulation from
cold air, especially if it begins to flap. I think you misinterpreted
what I said above.

Jobst Brandt

Steve Gravrock said:

Quoted message said:

don't bundle up unless you are going out for an all day thingy in
below freezing; an undershirt, a coolmax jersy, armwarmers and a
vest- stay warm by riding harder- your system will adapt and you
will not notice the temp; then in the spring when it starts to warm
up you will notice you will be flying faster as it gets
warmer. take a candybar or something for quick energy(heat) if you
have to fix a flat and get chilled.

Quoted message said:

If you're dressed so that you have to ride hard to be warm, it's
vital to carry extra layers. Otherwise a mechanical failure that you
can't fix on the road could be life-threatening. The colder and
wetter it gets, the more true that is.

I have ridden in cold weather, and with tubulars that don't change
easily when freezing cold.

http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Switzerland/Tour_Reports/Ice_Princess_1963/

Jobst Brandt

jobst.brandt said:

someone said:

Quoted message said:

> If it's wind-proof then vents don't have any effect other than
> psychosomatic, the body producing no gas volume to vent. For that to
> work, the jacket wold need to allow diffuse air to enter in the front
> to vent out the back. I don't know what the designers of these vents
> believe how and what they are venting.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Water vapor?

Guess again. First the sweat must evaporate

I wasn't referring to sweat. Humans also lose a lot of water as vapor
diffused through the skin, meaning that it is NOT passing through the
sweat glands.

Quoted message said:

and then it must be carried away by airflow... of which there is none
if the jacket is truly wind proof.

Depends on the design of the vents. Various movements of the jacket can
certainly provide enough flow to get rid of accumulated vapor and heat.

Quoted message said:

Go to www.wiggys.com; read the use letter for keeping warm. Wiggys
has the lightest and
BEST WORKING, insulated gear in the world.

Jams in Ohio

I wear this to the men's bar on Saturday nights:
http://www.wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=35

Steve Sr. said:

It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even in
North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring out the
long sleeves and tights.

I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment to
wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging problem.

That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in the
front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering schemes but
none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long sleeve jersey,
short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if temperatures are cold
enough.

All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
well in the front and not well enough in the back.

One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is that
because of the material that the tights are made of or is it because
they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?

My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
front while sweating in the back?

Wear a vest -- it will keep the wind off your chest, but still breathe
enough to keep your back cool. You can even get one with a mesh back.

"Windfront" jerseys and jackets are available, which have windproof fabric
in front, but breathable fabric everywhere else. When it's really cold,
windfront tights are good too.

Tight fitting clothes will wick sweat better, and keep you warmer when
it's cold too.

Some cycling jerseys don't breathe or wick very well, because the fabric
is so plasticky and is coated with silkscreened logos. Wool or Capilene
or whatever may work better for you.

Matt O.

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...A windbreaker without a liner in the jacket or
on the rider is not an insulator. It is no better than duct tape
stuck to the body.

But the windbreaker is a lot easier to put on and take off! 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...A windbreaker without a liner in the jacket or
on the rider is not an insulator. It is no better than duct tape
stuck to the body.

But the windbreaker is a lot easier to put on and take off! 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

The duct tape also removes hair.
-tom

Tom Nakashima said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...A windbreaker without a liner in the jacket or
on the rider is not an insulator. It is no better than duct tape
stuck to the body.

Quoted message said:

But the windbreaker is a lot easier to put on and take off! 😉

Quoted message said:

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

The duct tape also removes hair.
-tom

An aerodynamic advantage come the spring!

Quoted message said:

I always keep my front torso warm and reduce arm/head/hand coverage to
keep from overheating.

This makes zero sense to me; I dress exactly the opposite: concentrate on
keeping the extremities and face/neck warm, and just a tshirt or two to
cover the torso. Windchill strikes the extremities first, not the chest.

rms

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I always keep my front torso warm and reduce arm/head/hand coverage to
keep from overheating.

This makes zero sense to me; I dress exactly the opposite: concentrate on
keeping the extremities and face/neck warm, and just a tshirt or two to
cover the torso. Windchill strikes the extremities first, not the chest.

rms

Hmm..... you make a good point there!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I always keep my front torso warm and reduce arm/head/hand
coverage to keep from overheating.

This makes zero sense to me; I dress exactly the opposite:
concentrate on keeping the extremities and face/neck warm, and just
a tshirt or two to cover the torso. Windchill strikes the
extremities first, not the chest.

Hmm..... you make a good point there!

The theory from my Boy Scout days- for which I cannot vouch in terms of
factual accuracy- was that if the torso gets cold, blood supply to the
extremities is diminished to protect the major organs. But then they
also made a big deal about heat loss from the head. Both of these were
probably in the context of fairly minimal activity. In terms of being
active, over-wrapping the torso IME leads to a lot more sweating and
being colder in the long run.

Tim McNamara said:

In terms of being
active, over-wrapping the torso IME leads to a lot more sweating and
being colder in the long run.

A fair point as survival training teaches "always stay dry". Once you
start sweating in the extended cold, you can expect to die.

However, that might be quite a bit different from biking depending on
what you are doing. If you are touring then use layers so you can stay
cool once you start heating up. But, if you are out for a short one
hour or so exercise ride, then sweat all you want... as soon as you
finish you will be heading inside where it's warm so it doesn't
matter.

rms said:

Quoted message said:

I always keep my front torso warm and reduce arm/head/hand coverage to
keep from overheating.

This makes zero sense to me; I dress exactly the opposite: concentrate on
keeping the extremities and face/neck warm, and just a tshirt or two to
cover the torso. Windchill strikes the extremities first, not the chest.

I agree, to a point. It takes a pretty cold day for me to be not warm
enough with 1-2 layers under a windbreaker, but keeping my hands, feet,
and head warm becomes a challenge below about 40F.

I don't reach for the fleece or windfront tights until it's below freezing.

Matt O.

In article <[email hidden]>,

still just me said:

Tim McNamara said:

In terms of being
active, over-wrapping the torso IME leads to a lot more sweating and
being colder in the long run.

A fair point as survival training teaches "always stay dry". Once you
start sweating in the extended cold, you can expect to die.

However, that might be quite a bit different from biking depending on
what you are doing. If you are touring then use layers so you can
stay cool once you start heating up. But, if you are out for a short
one hour or so exercise ride, then sweat all you want... as soon as
you finish you will be heading inside where it's warm so it doesn't
matter.

Sure, the application matters. The longer you're going to be riding,
the bigger an issue it becomes.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Matt O'Toole said:

rms said:

Quoted message said:

I always keep my front torso warm and reduce arm/head/hand
coverage to keep from overheating.

This makes zero sense to me; I dress exactly the opposite:
concentrate on keeping the extremities and face/neck warm, and just
a tshirt or two to cover the torso. Windchill strikes the
extremities first, not the chest.

I agree, to a point. It takes a pretty cold day for me to be not
warm enough with 1-2 layers under a windbreaker, but keeping my
hands, feet, and head warm becomes a challenge below about 40F.

There's always a danger of these threads becoming machofests about "oh
yeah? You wuss! I ride if it's above -20!" I'm glad we've avoided
that. Basically, if my water bottles are gonna freeze, I stay home.
Macho I ain't. Winter becomes a time for other interests like getting
my guitar chops back up to snuff, reading, and doing some light strength
training, core strengthening and stretching. At 48, I find I feel much
better on the early spring rides if I do more general fitness stuff in
the winter. It's easy to stay warm in the house! But around here, it's
below 45 on average for nearly 5 months a year.

For cold rides, I find that a thin polypro balaclava works really well
keeping my head, ears and neck warm below 40. I have a think skullcap
for temps from 40-50. The traditional winter cycling hat also works
really well, unless you wear a helmet and then it might be problematic.
Hands and feet are much harder to manage. I have four sets of cold
weather gloves for different temperature ranges. I can do pretty well
with my hands until the gloves get soaked with perspiration.

I've struggled with keeping my feet warm. The old fleece-lined road
shoes of yore are long gone and those were great- light and warm, sort
of like Ugg boots for bicycling but not as bulky. I find that shoe
covers just don't work that well for me. I bought a pair of Lake winter
boots and those help quite a bit. My feet will be cold by the end of a
couple hour ride at 40F, but with cycling shoes and neoprene booties I
could only ride about an hour at those temps before my feet were too
cold for comfort.

Quoted message said:

I don't reach for the fleece or windfront tights until it's below
freezing.

I wear my windfronts below about 40, above that and they are just too
warm. I have a pair of Gekko Gear (now Col d'Lizard) Powerstrech 100
tights and they are really good- very light, very warm, wind resistant
and durable.

http://www.coldlizard.com/cgi/wc.dll?GEKKO~catalog~DETAIL~34

Quoted message said:

If it's wind-proof then vents don't have any effect other than
psychosomatic, the body producing no gas volume to vent. For that to
work, the jacket wold need to allow diffuse air to enter in the front
to vent out the back. I don't know what the designers of these vents
believe how and what they are venting.

My current fave, just a nylon "waterproof when new, more or less"
black shell, vents up the sleeves, besides the zipper at the neck. It
has velcro wrist bands that can be adjusted "loose" to let a nice flow
of air in, and I leave the front zipper pretty well closed to keep the
chest and neck warm. It's a little billowy, not too bad. It has a
bottom cord also, so it can vent out the bottom or stay closed (with
some adjustability there too) for more warmth. Tighten up the cuffs,
the arms are kept warm(er) with the general included heat production.
Colder weather, add layers. Doesn't take much usually for our moderate
Texas winters, a long-sleeved tee shirt under a jersey is often too
much. Yeah, if the jacket lies right on the skin of the arms you can
feel the outside temp but to say it does "nothing" is wrong-- . It
also has a button-down hood attached so if I ever get caught in a Blue
Norther ( http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/BB/ybb1.html
) I'll at least have something besides the vented helmet to put on my
head. If it's not cold enough for the shell, just a jersey and arm
warmers is often enough, approx., or I wish I'd worn my vest, see
below. Maybe a tee shirt under the jersey. I'm not very skinny and
others in the group usually wear more than me. Unless you think that's
"psychosomatic", too <g>.

For colder weather (or climate, in other places), such as my
Midwestern ("GFN"😉 New Year's Day century on a 42/17 fixed gear, where
max. temp for the day(in town, not out in the countryside where I was
riding) only briefly touched 19 deg F, there's a much different story
IRT "how to stay warm". There, I seldom used my mesh-back vest; here
it works well fairly often, depending on the vagaries of the year.
I'll confess to not having a temperature-indexed clothing schedule
posted on the refrigerator. Sometimes I have to go back home and try
again. --D-y

Tim McNamara said:

I've struggled with keeping my feet warm. The old fleece-lined road
shoes of yore are long gone and those were great- light and warm, sort
of like Ugg boots for bicycling but not as bulky. I find that shoe
covers just don't work that well for me. I bought a pair of Lake winter
boots and those help quite a bit. My feet will be cold by the end of a
couple hour ride at 40F, but with cycling shoes and neoprene booties I
could only ride about an hour at those temps before my feet were too
cold for comfort.

Have you tried the toe warmers they sell for hunters? I had the same
problem with my feet but with those puppies I can easily go in the
25-40 degree range.

Tim McNamara said:

...
I've struggled with keeping my feet warm. The old fleece-lined road
shoes of yore are long gone and those were great- light and warm, sort
of like Ugg boots for bicycling but not as bulky. I find that shoe
covers just don't work that well for me. I bought a pair of Lake winter
boots and those help quite a bit. My feet will be cold by the end of a
couple hour ride at 40F, but with cycling shoes and neoprene booties I
could only ride about an hour at those temps before my feet were too
cold for comfort....

The best I have found for cold weather riding is the combination of SPuD
sandals, synthetic inner sock, heavy wool middle sock and windproof
outer sock. Much warmer than regular cycling shoes with the neoprene covers.

Too bad there is not a SPuD compatible Sorel Caribou. 🙁

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Tim McNamara said:

... I've struggled with keeping my feet warm. The old fleece-lined
road shoes of yore are long gone and those were great- light and
warm, sort of like Ugg boots for bicycling but not as bulky. I
find that shoe covers just don't work that well for me. I bought a
pair of Lake winter boots and those help quite a bit. My feet will
be cold by the end of a couple hour ride at 40F, but with cycling
shoes and neoprene booties I could only ride about an hour at those
temps before my feet were too cold for comfort....

The best I have found for cold weather riding is the combination of
SPuD sandals, synthetic inner sock, heavy wool middle sock and
windproof outer sock. Much warmer than regular cycling shoes with the
neoprene covers.

Too bad there is not a SPuD compatible Sorel Caribou. 🙁

I have a pair of Lake sandals but have not tried them at all with heavy
socks in cold weather. I haven't really liked them under any
circumstances, actually- the fit is weird. My other Lake shoes fit
really well (well enough that almost all my cycling shoes are Lakes),
but the sandals don't.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Tim McNamara said:

... I've struggled with keeping my feet warm. The old fleece-lined
road shoes of yore are long gone and those were great- light and
warm, sort of like Ugg boots for bicycling but not as bulky. I
find that shoe covers just don't work that well for me. I bought a
pair of Lake winter boots and those help quite a bit. My feet will
be cold by the end of a couple hour ride at 40F, but with cycling
shoes and neoprene booties I could only ride about an hour at those
temps before my feet were too cold for comfort....

The best I have found for cold weather riding is the combination of
SPuD sandals, synthetic inner sock, heavy wool middle sock and
windproof outer sock. Much warmer than regular cycling shoes with the
neoprene covers.

Too bad there is not a SPuD compatible Sorel Caribou. 🙁

I have a pair of Lake sandals but have not tried them at all with heavy
socks in cold weather. I haven't really liked them under any
circumstances, actually- the fit is weird. My other Lake shoes fit
really well (well enough that almost all my cycling shoes are Lakes),
but the sandals don't.