Stage 19

Stewart Fleming said:

Predictions
1. Jan Ullrich 1:04:20
2. Lance Armstrong @ 0:20

SIMEONI Filippo (ITA, DVE) 01:20:05.470

Time limit is 25%. That means Lance needs 1:04:03 to take Simeoni out of of the
race. Will he do it?

Jenko

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:17:14 +0200, Jenko <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Stewart Fleming said:

Predictions
1. Jan Ullrich 1:04:20
2. Lance Armstrong @ 0:20

SIMEONI Filippo (ITA, DVE) 01:20:05.470

Time limit is 25%. That means Lance needs 1:04:03 to take Simeoni out of of the
race. Will he do it?

Expect
1 Lance 1:06:45
2 Jan 1:08:00 +1:15

Steve

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:47:22 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Walton)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:17:14 +0200, Jenko <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Stewart Fleming said:

Predictions
1. Jan Ullrich 1:04:20
2. Lance Armstrong @ 0:20

SIMEONI Filippo (ITA, DVE) 01:20:05.470

Time limit is 25%. That means Lance needs 1:04:03 to take Simeoni out of of the
race. Will he do it?

Expect
1 Lance 1:06:45
2 Jan 1:08:00 +1:15

Lance up 0:43 on Jan at 18km
I'll revise
1 Lance 1:06:00
2 Jan 1:08:00 + 2:00

Steve

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:13:25 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Walton)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:47:22 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Walton)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:17:14 +0200, Jenko <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Stewart Fleming wrote:
> Predictions
> 1. Jan Ullrich 1:04:20
> 2. Lance Armstrong @ 0:20

SIMEONI Filippo (ITA, DVE) 01:20:05.470

Time limit is 25%. That means Lance needs 1:04:03 to take Simeoni out of of the
race. Will he do it?

Expect
1 Lance 1:06:45
2 Jan 1:08:00 +1:15

Lance up 0:43 on Jan at 18km
I'll revise
1 Lance 1:06:00
2 Jan 1:08:00 + 2:00

Lance up 0:46 on Jan, 1:35 on Basso at 35km

Steve

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:24:56 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Walton)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:13:25 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Walton)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:47:22 GMT, [email hidden] (Steve Walton)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:17:14 +0200, Jenko <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>Stewart Fleming wrote:
>> Predictions
>> 1. Jan Ullrich 1:04:20
>> 2. Lance Armstrong @ 0:20
>
>SIMEONI Filippo (ITA, DVE) 01:20:05.470
>
>Time limit is 25%. That means Lance needs 1:04:03 to take Simeoni out of of the
>race. Will he do it?
>
Expect
1 Lance 1:06:45
2 Jan 1:08:00 +1:15

Lance up 0:43 on Jan at 18km
I'll revise
1 Lance 1:06:00
2 Jan 1:08:00 + 2:00

Lance up 0:46 on Jan, 1:35 on Basso at 35km

Jan finishes 1:07:50
Lance 1:06:49

got it nearly right 1st time

Steve

"Stewart Fleming" <stewart..net.nz...

Quoted message said:

Predictions
1. Jan Ullrich 1:04:20
2. Lance Armstrong @ 0:20

I cannot fathom how people could predict Ullrich beating Lance in an ITT
this year.
I mean, I already know the result, but a minute in Amrstrong's favor
should've been the closest Der Kaiser could come to Lance.

Quoted message said:

Andreas Kloden @ 2:15
Ivan Basso @ 4:10

FINAL:

Stage 19 - July 24: Besancon - Besancon ITT, 55 km
Results
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.27
4 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 2.25
5 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 2.48
6 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.50
7 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 3.19
8 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 3.33
Karpets cleaned up on poor Voeckler.-Ken

<< Results
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01 >><BR><BR>

Actually, Jan is a superior cyclist--he just doesn't train as hard or ride as
fast. But if he did, Lance wouldn't stand a chance. Lance is not anywhere
near the top cyclists of his generation, I think Mayo proved that last month.

"Gingerale392" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< Results
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01 >><BR><BR>

Actually, Jan is a superior cyclist--he just doesn't train as hard or ride as
fast. But if he did, Lance wouldn't stand a chance. Lance is not anywhere
near the top cyclists of his generation, I think Mayo proved that last month.

Not a superior cyclist -- superior physical gifts. Armstrong has
superior personal drive. Of the two, the latter almost always wins.
Even if Ulle trained extremely hard, Armstrong digs really deep
when he has to.

Mike

"Gingerale392" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< Results
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01 >><BR><BR>

Actually, Jan is a superior cyclist--he just doesn't train as hard or ride

as

Quoted message said:

fast. But if he did, Lance wouldn't stand a chance. Lance is not

anywhere

Quoted message said:

near the top cyclists of his generation, I think Mayo proved that last

month.

This must be a definition of "superior" that I'm unfamiliar with. When did
"superior" cyclists train poorly and ride slower than those less "superior"?
(<-

Tom Kunich said:

"Gingerale392" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< Results
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01 >><BR><BR>

Actually, Jan is a superior cyclist--he just doesn't train as hard or ride

as

Quoted message said:

fast. But if he did, Lance wouldn't stand a chance. Lance is not

anywhere

Quoted message said:

near the top cyclists of his generation, I think Mayo proved that last

month.

This must be a definition of "superior" that I'm unfamiliar with. When did
"superior" cyclists train poorly and ride slower than those less "superior"?
(<-

While we are at it, we hear all the time about Lance extraordinary
physics, his VO2max, lung volume and whatnot.
Can anybody tell me why it seems to be common knowledge that despite all
this JU is seen as the more "gifted" or "talented" rider?

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"Gingerale392" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< Results
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01 >><BR><BR>

Actually, Jan is a superior cyclist--he just doesn't train as hard or ride

as

Quoted message said:

fast. But if he did, Lance wouldn't stand a chance. Lance is not

anywhere

Quoted message said:

near the top cyclists of his generation, I think Mayo proved that last

month.

This must be a definition of "superior" that I'm unfamiliar with. When did
"superior" cyclists train poorly and ride slower than those less "superior"?
(<-

While we are at it, we hear all the time about Lance extraordinary
physics, his VO2max, lung volume and whatnot.
Can anybody tell me why it seems to be common knowledge that despite all
this JU is seen as the more "gifted" or "talented" rider?

I think probably the main reason is that Ullrich does not work that
hard in the winter (if at all) and works much less than other riders in
the spring, and yet he manages to finish second in the TdF.

A lot of people seem to feel that if he worked harder he would
win, but then again, who knows? Maybe if he worked himself as
does Armstrong, he still might lose.

M.

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think probably the main reason is that Ullrich does not work that
hard in the winter (if at all) and works much less than other riders in
the spring, and yet he manages to finish second in the TdF.

A lot of people seem to feel that if he worked harder he would
win, but then again, who knows? Maybe if he worked himself as
does Armstrong, he still might lose.

Apparently Jan's Bratwurst training was better than people gave it credit
for. This year he came into the race in his best every condition since his
winning year (actually he was in even better condition the year before ('96)
but Riis was captain that year and Jan was held back from winning) and
finished 4th.

Tom Kunich said:

This must be a definition of "superior" that I'm unfamiliar with. When did
"superior" cyclists train poorly and ride slower than those less "superior"?

I think it's a typo. Supper-ior. A new word.

MJ;

--
..signature necesse est

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think probably the main reason is that Ullrich does not work that
hard in the winter (if at all) and works much less than other riders in
the spring, and yet he manages to finish second in the TdF.

A lot of people seem to feel that if he worked harder he would
win, but then again, who knows? Maybe if he worked himself as
does Armstrong, he still might lose.

Apparently Jan's Bratwurst training was better than people gave it credit
for. This year he came into the race in his best every condition since his
winning year (actually he was in even better condition the year before ('96)
but Riis was captain that year and Jan was held back from winning) and
finished 4th.

He was in physical shape, but was he in racing shape? Losing 5 to 10
kilos since the winter must have put an incredible strain on his system.

Mike

Tom Kunich said:

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think probably the main reason is that Ullrich does not work that
hard in the winter (if at all) and works much less than other riders in
the spring, and yet he manages to finish second in the TdF.

A lot of people seem to feel that if he worked harder he would
win, but then again, who knows? Maybe if he worked himself as
does Armstrong, he still might lose.

Apparently Jan's Bratwurst training was better than people gave it credit
for. This year he came into the race in his best every condition since his
winning year (actually he was in even better condition the year before ('96)
but Riis was captain that year and Jan was held back from winning) and
finished 4th.

I heard an interview with Haselbacher, this guy really seems to speak
his mind with trying to paint things in a nicer picture. For instance he
was very clear that he didn't like LA and found him arrogant - but this
not something I want to discuss.

The point is that he talked about Ullrich and said that it's absolutely
amazing that this guy is able to be as good as he is with the training
he does. That he is really able to get himself into shape in 4 weeks
before the tour de suisse and win it. Apparently the racers were also
quite surprised of JU's bad shape this spring.

This is the first time I heard an active racer speaking that openly
about Jan's training "methods". And I believe the words of a racer more
than the words of a reporter, who's always seeking for reasons if
something is not going as well as it should. Even if it's not a racer of
Ullrich's team.

Quoted message said:

From: Ernst Noch [email hidden]
Date: 7/26/2004 2:48 AM Eastern

Quoted message said:

The point is that he talked about Ullrich and said that it's absolutely
amazing that this guy is able to be as good as he is with the training
he does. That he is really able to get himself into shape in 4 weeks
before the tour de suisse and win it. Apparently the racers were also
quite surprised of JU's bad shape this spring.

This is the first time I heard an active racer speaking that openly
about Jan's training "methods". And I believe the words of a racer more
than the words of a reporter, who's always seeking for reasons if
something is not going as well as it should. Even if it's not a racer of
Ullrich's team.

I've been really surprised to hear even the little that has come out of the
T-Mobile camp criticising Jan. I learned my lesson on this subject when I had a
conversation with some of the Telekom people and suggested that Jan needed to
be mentally tougher and prepare better. They got seriously offended and
disputed this. Since one of them was my son's coach and a friend I immediately
dropped the subject, but questioning Jan was NOT allowed in Telekom.
Bill C

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been really surprised to hear even the little that has come out of

the

Quoted message said:

T-Mobile camp criticising Jan. I learned my lesson on this subject when I

had a

Quoted message said:

conversation with some of the Telekom people and suggested that Jan needed

to

Quoted message said:

be mentally tougher and prepare better. They got seriously offended and
disputed this. Since one of them was my son's coach and a friend I

immediately

Quoted message said:

dropped the subject, but questioning Jan was NOT allowed in Telekom.

I wonder if this is because he was dictated to by East Germans and now
intends to do only what he wants to do.

Quoted message said:

From: "Tom Kunich" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I wonder if this is because he was dictated to by East Germans and now
intends to do only what he wants to do.

I think they are starting to speak out out of frustration. They can see what
it will take to beat Lance. They have someone who could, but they can't get him
to go with the program. I think Jan will retire fairly soon, next season or two
at most. Probably in the winter/early spring timeframe when it just isn't worth
it to him anymore.
Just my guess
Bill C