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rec.bicycles.rides archive
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30 May 2003
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Raptor
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  1. (mark freedman) said:

    Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>..

    Quoted message said:

    stop well short (10 feet) of a rattlesnake parked in the middle of the road. I waited it out,
    stomped my foot a few times and it mosied off the road. I let it live.

    Proper technique is to stare directly into it's eyes while saying in your best stern
    father voice

    "BAD rattlesnake. BAD rattlesnake. Go home ......"

    Actually, snakes are deaf (no external ears) and respond only to ground vibrations - so the stomping
    thing should work.

    p.s. Yes, I know that your post is a parody of the standard anti-dog dictum.

  2. "Garrison Hilliard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (mark freedman) said:
    Quoted message said:


    Proper technique is to stare directly into it's eyes while saying in your best stern father
    voice

    "BAD rattlesnake. BAD rattlesnake. Go home ......"

    Actually, snakes are deaf (no external ears) and respond only to ground vibrations - so the
    stomping thing should work.

    p.s. Yes, I know that your post is a parody of the standard anti-dog dictum.

    Thank you. I was hoping somebody would say that :-)

    from anapsid.orgtorrey.html

    Melissa Kaplan's Herp Care Collection Last updated August 11, 2002

    Shhh! The snake may hear you

    ©1998 John Carson. Torrey Pines State Park

    Can snakes hear, you ask?

    A few decades ago the answer was no, for - obviously - snakes don't have external ears. And any way,
    snakes don't appear to respond to loud noises. Further support for this view is found in some
    current zoology texts, which still report that snakes lack the sense of hearing. But research begun
    about 35 years ago, especially the extensive investigations over many years by E.G. Wever and
    associates at Princeton University, has shown that snakes have a hearing capability(at least in an
    electrophysiological sense) comparable to that of lizards.

    This should not be too surprising, for snakes and lizards share some common features and are thought
    to have common ancestors.

    So how can a snake hear, lacking external ears? By having equivalent structures on each side of its
    head. The skin and muscle tissue on each side of the head cover a loosely suspended bone, called the
    quadrate, which undergoes small displacements in response to airborne sound. The quadrate motion is
    transferred by intermediate structures to the cochlea, which produces electrical signals on its hair
    cells that correlate with the airborne sounds (within a range of intensity and frequency determined
    by the ear system) and are transferred to the brain.

    Cochlear signals are present in functioning ears of all classes of vertebrates from fish to mammals,
    while animals that are congenitally deaf produce no such signals, so their presence in response to
    sound is taken as an indication of the hearing sense. Wever and co-workers
    [1] developed techniques to measure the hair-cell signals in lizards, snakes, and amphibians, which
    involved anesthetizing the specimen, inserting a very thin wire probe into contact with a hair
    cell, and measuring the acoustic signal level needed to produce a specified hair-cell signal
    (typically 0.1 microvolt). Various experiments were performed to demonstrate that the hair-cell
    signals were in direct response to airborne sound and not to mechanical vibrations from the
    medium on which the specimens were placed.

    According to Porter [2], the auditory response of snakes in the range of 200 to 300 Hz is superior
    to that of cats. Hartline and Campbell
    [2] investigated the transmission of airborne sound through the snake's skin and lung into the inner
    ear. Wever's results show that this type of transmission, called the somatic mode, is much
    reduced compared to that through the skin to the quadrate, which is the main mode of hearing.

    How are the cochlear responses to be interpreted? Wever points out that it is often difficult to
    determine the role of hearing in lower forms such as reptiles. It is possible that snakes make less
    use of the auditory sense than other animals. He notes that the maximum sensitivity occurs in the
    frequency range of noise made by movements of large animals, so detection of such sounds could
    function as a warning to snakes to be motionless, a common defensive action with animals. (Although
    not discussed in the references I was able to check, there is also the question of how the cochlear
    signals are used in the snake brain. Is it possible that the ability to process this information has
    been or is being lost?) So the next time you meet a snake on the Reserve trails, be careful what you
    say to it, for the snake may hear you.

    Acknowledgements - My thanks to R. Haase, research associate with the UCSD Biology Dept., for
    informative discussions and reviewing this article.

    References

    [3] Wever, E.G., The Reptile Ear, Princeton University Press, 1978

    [4] Porter, K.R., Herpetology, Sanders Co., 1972

    [5] Hartline, P.H., and Campbell, H.W., "Auditory and Vibratory Responses in the Midbrains of
    Snakes, " Science, vol 163, 1221, (1969)

  3. Raptor said:
    Rick Warner said:

    Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Jobst is dead-on; ride around it! You say it is a 2.5 ft snake on a 15' road; even if it is just
    to one side of center and stretched out straight to the side of the road you would have 5' of
    clearance on that side, and
    7.5' on the other. Lots of room to pass. Rattlesnakes are not that fast, they cannot 'jump', and
    the subspecies that lives in the SLC area is rather passive - not very aggressive (when
    working on some biological studies just west of SLC we used to almost step on them daily, and
    all we did was call out position so that on one did step on the snakes). Live and let live;
    the snakes are good for the area and deserve to live.

    - rick warner

    It's nice to hear that our rattlers are passive, but for a (snake)-ophobe, it doesn't help much.
    Plus, we do hear that every summer results in a big spike in snake bite treatments at hospitals
    (duh), so people do get bitten.

    I'd be happier to learn that their venom is not particularly destructive. Do you know?

    Perhaps your info explains my having ridden unscathed by a largish snake, passing within a foot of
    it on an uphill trail in the same area, a couple years ago. It was a quick enough passing that I
    didn't get a good look at the snake, just something big squirming right beneath my feet. I don't
    even know if it was a rattler. My only injury was a substantial rise in the pucker factor.

    -

    You've got to get over it. You freak because you saw a snake. Many other people wish they could
    share your experience. Meanwhile, what are the real stats regarding rattlesnake bites? Get over
    yourself. It's just like all those girls I know who panic because there is a spider in the
    bathroom. Of course there is. What's keeping the silverfish under control? These critters are no
    big deal. Just understand them a little, and realize how valuable they are to you and to all of us.
    regards, Bernie

  4. Raptor said:
    Rick Warner said:

    Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Jobst is dead-on; ride around it! You say it is a 2.5 ft snake on a 15' road; even if it is just
    to one side of center and stretched out straight to the side of the road you would have 5' of
    clearance on that side, and
    7.5' on the other. Lots of room to pass. Rattlesnakes are not that fast, they cannot 'jump', and
    the subspecies that lives in the SLC area is rather passive - not very aggressive (when
    working on some biological studies just west of SLC we used to almost step on them daily, and
    all we did was call out position so that on one did step on the snakes). Live and let live;
    the snakes are good for the area and deserve to live.

    - rick warner

    It's nice to hear that our rattlers are passive, but for a (snake)-ophobe, it doesn't help much.
    Plus, we do hear that every summer results in a big spike in snake bite treatments at hospitals
    (duh), so people do get bitten.

    I'd be happier to learn that their venom is not particularly destructive. Do you know?

    Perhaps your info explains my having ridden unscathed by a largish snake, passing within a foot of
    it on an uphill trail in the same area, a couple years ago. It was a quick enough passing that I
    didn't get a good look at the snake, just something big squirming right beneath my feet. I don't
    even know if it was a rattler. My only injury was a substantial rise in the pucker factor.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
    in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

    Putting rattlesnake bites in perspective:

    How does 1 bite every 3.5 years compare with other animal related deaths and injuries? In Wisconsin,
    the number of people that die from deer/car collisions ranges from 0-7 per year for the same period,
    1982-96, or 2.2 deaths per year. Only one death has ever been attributed to a Timber Rattlesnake
    bite in the state's history. The number of deer/car injuries recorded from 1982-95 ranged from 324
    in 1982 to 693 in 1996. The number of cat and dog bites reported annually in La Crosse County alone
    from 1984-1995 ranged from 145-252 per year. Comparing these figures to 1 rattlesnake bite every 3.5
    years demonstrates the comparatively negligible threat Timber Rattlesnakes truly pose to humans.

    How does that grab you? You're paranoid. Get over it. Life is good. Snakes are important. ie: we
    need them. Bernie

  5. Raptor said:
    Rick Warner said:

    It is moderate toxicity. There used to be a good venom research unit at the VA Hospital in SLC,
    so there was a lot of knowledge in the area of the venom and how to deal with it. The best
    course is to stay away from the snakes, and know how to deal with a bite if it happens.

    Thanks for the info. There's a similar thread in a.m-b (that I forgot about earlier), but what is
    your advice on what to do if bitten on a trail or remote road? Call 911 on your cell phone (which
    I have for the first time this season) and do what they say? Ride downhill or easily to the
    nearest EMS access point? Sit and glare at the snake? Try to kill it for EMS ID?

    One handy tip from the other thread is to mark the bite location with a pen, or I guess dirt if
    you don't have a pen.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
    in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

    Oh come on. If you are really concerned about what to do if bitten, you don't have to ask a bunch of
    bicyclists about it. You can get on the internet and get the real goods. Bernie

  6. Matt O'Toole said:

    "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I happened to catch a show on Animal Planet just a couple


    days ago,

    Quoted message said:

    before my encounter. The Mojave Green was called the most


    deadly snake

    Quoted message said:

    in the country. Aggression and deadly venom in one little


    package. As

    Quoted message said:

    clear a case for killing every one you see as we'll ever


    get.

    Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone. They keep the rats under control, and those carry
    rabies, hantavirus, and bubonic plague.

    Matt O.

    Very good point. Do you know any other common animal that will eat plague rats/squirrels? Snakes
    have a job to do. They are just part of the circle of life. Bernie

  7. On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:12:14 -0700, Bernie <[email hidden]> from Posted via Supernews,

    url='http://www.supernews.com/'http://www.supernews.com/url said:

    Very good point. Do you know any other common animal that will eat plague rats/squirrels? Snakes
    have a job to do. They are just part of the circle of life.

    You're the Karate Monkey in the Lion King and I claim my ten quid!

    --
    home.sport.rr.comcuthulu human rights = peace I'm sitting on my SPEED QUEEN ... To me, it's
    ENJOYABLE ... I'm WARM ... I'm VIBRATORY ...
    1:56:14 AM 23 June 2003

  8. Bernie said:


    You've got to get over it. You freak because you saw a snake. Many other people wish they could
    share your experience. Meanwhile, what are the real stats regarding rattlesnake bites? Get over
    yourself. It's just like all those girls I know who panic because there is a spider in the
    bathroom. Of course there is. What's keeping the silverfish under control? These critters are no
    big deal. Just understand them a little, and realize how valuable they are to you and to all of
    us. regards, Bernie

    It's really just the startle factor anymore. I know a rattlesnake can't hurt me if I'm at least five
    feet from it.

    I was hiking the Tetons yesterday and jumped whenever a rodent jumped toward my path before turning
    away. I don't want ANYTHING crossing my path within a couple feet, at any speed, small or large.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  9. In addition, alcohol is involved with a majority of snake bites, somewhere around 80%. People that
    get bitten are not people who are riding their bikes. This are drunk people that are playing with
    their pet snakes or who are actively pursuing snakes in the wild.

    --

    Mike Murray MD 'Bernie said:

    Putting rattlesnake bites in perspective:

    How does 1 bite every 3.5 years compare with other animal related deaths


    and

    Quoted message said:

    injuries? In Wisconsin, the number of people that die from deer/car collisions ranges from 0-7 per
    year for the


    same

    Quoted message said:

    period, 1982-96, or 2.2 deaths per year. Only one death has ever been attributed to a Timber
    Rattlesnake bite


    in the

    Quoted message said:

    state's history. The number of deer/car injuries recorded from 1982-95 ranged from 324 in 1982
    to 693 in


    1996.

    Quoted message said:

    The number of cat and dog bites reported annually in La Crosse County alone from 1984-1995
    ranged from


    145-252

    Quoted message said:

    per year. Comparing these figures to 1 rattlesnake bite every 3.5 years demonstrates the


    comparatively

    Quoted message said:

    negligible threat Timber Rattlesnakes truly pose to humans.

    How does that grab you? You're paranoid. Get over it. Life is good.


    Snakes

    Quoted message said:

    are important. ie: we need them. Bernie

  10. Kevan Smith said:

    On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:12:14 -0700, Bernie <[email hidden]> from Posted via Supernews,

    url='http://www.supernews.com/'http://www.supernews.com/url said:

    Very good point. Do you know any other common animal that will eat plague rats/squirrels? Snakes
    have a job to do. They are just part of the circle of life.

    You're the Karate Monkey in the Lion King and I claim my ten quid!

    --
    home.sport.rr.comcuthulu human rights = peace I'm sitting on my SPEED QUEEN ... To me,
    it's ENJOYABLE ... I'm WARM ... I'm VIBRATORY ...
    1:56:14 AM 23 June 2003

    You almost make me wish I'd seen it. Sorry for the late reply. Don't read this group often. Bernie

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