SSRIs: drugs that kill?

[email hidden] (Zee) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

For John, who is taking Paxil (and amphetamines) and whose
"anxiety {and} agitation" could be caused by Paxil, an anti-
depressant of the SSRI class.

It's easier to call him a junkie.

Quoted message said:

Silence and Suicide By Angela Bischoff June 6, 2004

Health Canada finally admitted it. Anti-depressants may
cause anxiety, agitation and suicidal thoughts. But Health
Canada's recent warning comes too late for Tooker Gomberg.

Tooker suffered from depression, an illness that made it
difficult for him to reach out. He suffered because there
are few resources for those with modest incomes. He
suffered because society fails to accept and deal with
mental illness.

But Tooker died, I believe, because he reacted adversely
to his anti-depressant medication. Two bouts of severe
depression paralyzed Tooker's vital forces, leaving him in
a bleak, desperate state. He became hopeless and anxious,
suffocated by pain.

Creative people, and those who do well socially and
academically are particularly vulnerable to the spectre of
mental disintegration and the fear of becoming a chronic
patient.

It is known that a small percentage of people taking anti-
depressant drugs suffer adverse reactions, including
suicidal thoughts. Tooker began taking an antidepressant
in January 2004. In the ensuing weeks his anxiety,
agitation, and hopelessness spun out of control. I learned
later that these are the leading predictors of suicidal
behaviour.

Patients put on such drugs must be monitored for suicidal
tendencies. Two weeks into his drug therapy, Tooker began
to have suicidal thoughts - for the first time in his
life. His doctor did not question him. Imagine taking a
drug, and as your symptoms worsen, your doctor advises
you to double the dosage! Just four weeks after beginning
the medication and increasing the dosage twice, Tooker
took his own life. He wrote that that he could not bear
the agony.

A public inquiry held by the US FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) heard testimonials from people who had
lost loved ones to suicide. On March 22, 2004, the FDA
released a public health advisory stating that anti-
depressants, including the drug prescribed to Tooker, may
increase risk of suicide. It ordered manufacturers of ten
big-selling drugs to declare this on warning labels.

Health Canada responded by setting up a scientific
advisory panel. This resulted in dear-doctor letters going
out to all physicians in the country linking anti-
depressants with increased agitation and suicidal thoughts
in some patients. On June 3rd, three months to the day
after Tooker took his life, Health Canada advised the
public of the deadly correlation.

Although the drug/suicide connection has been established
for some time, Tooker's psychiatrist never mentioned it.
The drug fact sheet from the pharmacist included no
information about suicide. The monograph inside the
package contained no warning of suicidal ideation. Health
Canada's website offered no information on the topic. Any
one of these interventions may have saved Tooker's life.

Suicide is largely preventable. Yet it is epidemic, having
tripled over the past 45 years. At the same time,
pharmaceutical use has increased dramatically.

Around the world, between one and four percent of adults
claim that they have attempted suicide at some point in
their lives. Studies in 1993, 1995, and 1997 concluded
that one in five high school students seriously considered
suicide in the preceding 12-month period, and one in ten
actually attempted it.

It is a myth that talking about suicide will induce it.
The psychiatric community knows that talking saves lives.
So why the media blackout? Why the lack of information?
Why the taboo?

Society is under the illusion that suicide is rare.
Medical professionals and government agencies are not
supposed to subscribe to societal illusions. Their
responsibility is to act on proven risks and statistical
truths. When they fail, the public is put at risk.

Tooker died needlessly. His death is an unspeakable loss.
No one else should be allowed to die this way. Given what
we know today about the potential side effects of anti-
depressants, there can be no excuse.

Doctors prescribing anti-depressants should be required to
conduct suicide risk assessments with all patients, and
warn them of the known risks. Otherwise, every
prescription puts a life at risk. Isn't that life worth a
few questions?

Now that Health Canada claims that product labels and
monographs will include warnings about increased risk of
suicide, our regulatory agency must go further. Health
Canada must research, review and publish all data on anti-
depressants and suicidal behaviour; it must track the
deaths and adverse reactions of children and adults on
these drugs; it must hold public hearings on the effects
of psychiatric drugs; and it must encourage consumers and
physicians to report adverse reactions.

The public has a right to know. Tell the truth and
save lives.

- 30 -

For more info: hc-hc-Open ↗
sc.gc.ca/english/protection/warnings/2004/2004_31.htm
breggin.combreggin.comOpen ↗ ahrp.orgahrp.orgOpen ↗
greenspiration.orggreenspiration.orgOpen ↗

(Zee) said:

For John, who is taking Paxil (and amphetamines) and whose
"anxiety {and} agitation" could be caused by Paxil, an anti-
depressant of the SSRI class.

It's easier to call him a junkie.

Last I checked, the recreational use of amphetamine that
leads one to a state of being "hooked" (John's word),
*makes* him a junkie. It is true, however, that anxiety
(and) agitation can be caused by life, speed and Paxil.
Do we know John? Perhaps he dosed with iodo-ephedrine
and banged his thyroid even though he claims
'pharmaceutical grade'.

I find it interesting that your 'doctor' friend spoke on
John's case without performing a differential himself;
however, by the way it's written, I'd say someone is
*playing* doctor (the Paxil list of symptoms is longer and
may fit his symptoms more???).

With his apparent deficits (your focal neurological
symptoms) John is wasting time..although perhaps he's stoked
out and has lost the ability to reply.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Silence and Suicide By Angela Bischoff June 6, 2004

Health Canada finally admitted it. Anti-depressants may
cause anxiety, agitation and suicidal thoughts. But
Health Canada's recent warning comes too late for Tooker
Gomberg.

Tooker suffered from depression, an illness that made it
difficult for him to reach out. He suffered because there
are few resources for those with modest incomes. He
suffered because society fails to accept and deal with
mental illness.

But Tooker died, I believe, because he reacted adversely
to his anti-depressant medication. Two bouts of severe
depression paralyzed Tooker's vital forces, leaving him
in a bleak, desperate state. He became hopeless and
anxious, suffocated by pain.

Creative people, and those who do well socially and
academically are particularly vulnerable to the spectre
of mental disintegration and the fear of becoming a
chronic patient.

It is known that a small percentage of people taking anti-
depressant drugs suffer adverse reactions, including
suicidal thoughts. Tooker began taking an antidepressant
in January 2004. In the ensuing weeks his anxiety,
agitation, and hopelessness spun out of control. I
learned later that these are the leading predictors of
suicidal behaviour.

Patients put on such drugs must be monitored for suicidal
tendencies. Two weeks into his drug therapy, Tooker began
to have suicidal thoughts - for the first time in his
life. His doctor did not question him. Imagine taking a
drug, and as your symptoms worsen, your doctor advises
you to double the dosage! Just four weeks after beginning
the medication and increasing the dosage twice, Tooker
took his own life. He wrote that that he could not bear
the agony.

A public inquiry held by the US FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) heard testimonials from people who had
lost loved ones to suicide. On March 22, 2004, the FDA
released a public health advisory stating that anti-
depressants, including the drug prescribed to Tooker, may
increase risk of suicide. It ordered manufacturers of ten
big-selling drugs to declare this on warning labels.

Health Canada responded by setting up a scientific
advisory panel. This resulted in dear-doctor letters
going out to all physicians in the country linking anti-
depressants with increased agitation and suicidal
thoughts in some patients. On June 3rd, three months to
the day after Tooker took his life, Health Canada advised
the public of the deadly correlation.

Although the drug/suicide connection has been established
for some time, Tooker's psychiatrist never mentioned it.
The drug fact sheet from the pharmacist included no
information about suicide. The monograph inside the
package contained no warning of suicidal ideation. Health
Canada's website offered no information on the topic. Any
one of these interventions may have saved Tooker's life.

Suicide is largely preventable. Yet it is epidemic,
having tripled over the past 45 years. At the same time,
pharmaceutical use has increased dramatically.

Around the world, between one and four percent of adults
claim that they have attempted suicide at some point in
their lives. Studies in 1993, 1995, and 1997 concluded
that one in five high school students seriously
considered suicide in the preceding 12-month period, and
one in ten actually attempted it.

It is a myth that talking about suicide will induce it.
The psychiatric community knows that talking saves lives.
So why the media blackout? Why the lack of information?
Why the taboo?

Society is under the illusion that suicide is rare.
Medical professionals and government agencies are not
supposed to subscribe to societal illusions. Their
responsibility is to act on proven risks and statistical
truths. When they fail, the public is put at risk.

Tooker died needlessly. His death is an unspeakable loss.
No one else should be allowed to die this way. Given what
we know today about the potential side effects of anti-
depressants, there can be no excuse.

Doctors prescribing anti-depressants should be required
to conduct suicide risk assessments with all patients,
and warn them of the known risks. Otherwise, every
prescription puts a life at risk. Isn't that life worth a
few questions?

Now that Health Canada claims that product labels and
monographs will include warnings about increased risk of
suicide, our regulatory agency must go further. Health
Canada must research, review and publish all data on anti-
depressants and suicidal behaviour; it must track the
deaths and adverse reactions of children and adults on
these drugs; it must hold public hearings on the effects
of psychiatric drugs; and it must encourage consumers and
physicians to report adverse reactions.

The public has a right to know. Tell the truth and
save lives.

- 30 -

For more info: hc-hc-Open ↗
sc.gc.ca/english/protection/warnings/2004/2004_31.htm
breggin.combreggin.comOpen ↗ ahrp.orgahrp.orgOpen ↗
greenspiration.orggreenspiration.orgOpen ↗

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 10 Jun 2004 22:41:09 -0700, [email hidden]

(Zee) said:

For John, who is taking Paxil (and amphetamines) and
whose "anxiety {and} agitation" could be caused by Paxil,
an anti-depressant of the SSRI class.

It's easier to call him a junkie.

Last I checked, the recreational use of amphetamine that
leads one to a state of being "hooked" (John's word),
*makes* him a junkie.

Allow me to restate so there's no mistake at my meaning,
which there appears to be: It is easier to call "John" and
"[email hidden]" junkies--dismissing them--than look at what's
happening with drugs, whether prescription or recreational.
Consider the word junkie to all extra-therapeutic use no
matter what you're horking.

Quoted message said:

It is true, however, that anxiety (and) agitation can be
caused by

life,

Quoted message said:

speed and Paxil.

And trivializing statements that make no point?

Quoted message said:

I find it interesting that your 'doctor' friend spoke on
John's case without performing a differential himself;
however, by the way it's written, I'd say someone is
*playing* doctor (the Paxil list of symptoms is longer and
may fit his symptoms more???).

I find it interesting that you play doctor critic thereby
wishing to give the impression you know something about
this. He's good for it. I didn't drag John in for a
differential (isn't that something in my car?) and the
doctor was good enough to answer my question in the middle
of a long shift in an actual doctor-type setting...

Not on the internet.

Quoted message said:

With his apparent deficits (your focal neurological
symptoms) John is wasting time..although perhaps he's
stoked out and has lost the ability to reply.

And perhaps you haven't added anything to this discussion,
have wasted your time and mine, and never had the ability to
reply in any other fashion, ever.

And perhaps I recognize the debating style.

Zee

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Silence and Suicide

Quoted message said:

By Angela Bischoff June 6, 2004

Health Canada finally admitted it. Anti-depressants
may cause anxiety, agitation and suicidal thoughts.
But Health Canada's recent warning comes too late for
Tooker Gomberg.

Tooker suffered from depression, an illness that made
it difficult for him to reach out. He suffered because
there are few resources for those with modest incomes.
He suffered because society fails to accept and deal
with mental illness.

But Tooker died, I believe, because he reacted
adversely to his anti-depressant medication. Two bouts
of severe depression paralyzed Tooker's vital forces,
leaving him in a bleak, desperate state. He became
hopeless and anxious, suffocated by pain.

Creative people, and those who do well socially and
academically are particularly vulnerable to the
spectre of mental disintegration and the fear of
becoming a chronic patient.

It is known that a small percentage of people taking
anti-depressant drugs suffer adverse reactions,
including suicidal thoughts. Tooker began taking an
antidepressant in January 2004. In the ensuing weeks
his anxiety, agitation, and hopelessness spun out of
control. I learned later that these are the leading
predictors of suicidal behaviour.

Patients put on such drugs must be monitored for
suicidal tendencies. Two weeks into his drug therapy,
Tooker began to have suicidal thoughts - for the first
time in his life. His doctor did not question him.
Imagine taking a drug, and as your symptoms worsen,
your doctor advises you to double the dosage! Just
four weeks after beginning the medication and
increasing the dosage twice, Tooker took his own life.
He wrote that that he could not bear the agony.

A public inquiry held by the US FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) heard testimonials from people who had
lost loved ones to suicide. On March 22, 2004, the FDA
released a public health advisory stating that anti-
depressants, including the drug prescribed to Tooker,
may increase risk of suicide. It ordered manufacturers
of ten big-selling drugs to declare this on warning
labels.

Health Canada responded by setting up a scientific
advisory panel. This resulted in dear-doctor letters
going out to all physicians in the country linking anti-
depressants with increased agitation and suicidal
thoughts in some patients. On June 3rd, three months
to the day after Tooker took his life, Health Canada
advised the public of the deadly correlation.

Although the drug/suicide connection has been
established for some time, Tooker's psychiatrist never
mentioned it. The drug fact sheet from the pharmacist
included no information about suicide. The monograph
inside the package contained no warning of suicidal
ideation. Health Canada's website offered no
information on the topic. Any one of these
interventions may have saved Tooker's life.

Suicide is largely preventable. Yet it is epidemic,
having tripled over the past 45 years. At the same
time, pharmaceutical use has increased dramatically.

Around the world, between one and four percent of
adults claim that they have attempted suicide at some
point in their lives. Studies in 1993, 1995, and 1997
concluded that one in five high school students
seriously considered suicide in the preceding 12-month
period, and one in ten actually attempted it.

It is a myth that talking about suicide will induce
it. The psychiatric community knows that talking saves
lives. So why the media blackout? Why the lack of
information? Why the taboo?

Society is under the illusion that suicide is rare.
Medical professionals and government agencies are not
supposed to subscribe to societal illusions. Their
responsibility is to act on proven risks and
statistical truths. When they fail, the public is put
at risk.

Tooker died needlessly. His death is an unspeakable
loss. No one else should be allowed to die this way.
Given what we know today about the potential side
effects of anti-depressants, there can be no excuse.

Doctors prescribing anti-depressants should be
required to conduct suicide risk assessments with all
patients, and warn them of the known risks. Otherwise,
every prescription puts a life at risk. Isn't that
life worth a few questions?

Now that Health Canada claims that product labels and
monographs will include warnings about increased risk
of suicide, our regulatory agency must go further.
Health Canada must research, review and publish all
data on anti-depressants and suicidal behaviour; it
must track the deaths and adverse reactions of
children and adults on these drugs; it must hold
public hearings on the effects of psychiatric drugs;
and it must encourage consumers and physicians to
report adverse reactions.

The public has a right to know. Tell the truth and
save lives.

- 30 -

For more info: hc-hc-Open ↗
sc.gc.ca/english/protection/warnings/2004/2004_31.htm
breggin.combreggin.comOpen ↗ ahrp.orgahrp.orgOpen ↗
greenspiration.orggreenspiration.orgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last I checked, the recreational use of amphetamine that
leads one to a state of being "hooked" (John's word),
*makes* him a junkie.

Allow me to restate so there's no mistake at my meaning,
which there appears to be: It is easier to call "John" and
"[email hidden]" junkies--dismissing them--than look at what's
happening with drugs, whether prescription or recreational.
Consider the word junkie to all extra-therapeutic use no
matter what you're horking.

Interesting.

So you are John. Anyways, we're talking about a freak. While
it would be nice to attribute his anxiety and agitation to
Paxil, it more than likely is due to the (meth)amphetamine.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is true, however, that anxiety (and) agitation can be
caused by

life, speed and Paxil.

And trivializing statements that make no point?

Let me explain--I'm just pointing out that all 3 can cause
anxiety and agitation and without a history, how can a
conclusion be made?

Quoted message said:

I find it interesting that you play doctor critic thereby
wishing to give the impression you know something about
this. He's good for it. I didn't drag John in for a
differential (isn't that something in my car?) and the
doctor was good enough to answer my question in the middle
of a long shift in an actual doctor-type setting...

Yeah, 75w90 in the diff. So you took a doctor's words and
dropped them on the interenet without his knowledge? Are you
support staff? Where?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With his apparent deficits (your focal neurological
symptoms) John is wasting time..although perhaps he's
stoked out and has lost the ability to reply.

And perhaps you haven't added anything to this discussion,
have wasted your time and mine, and never had the ability
to reply in any other fashion, ever.

And perhaps I recognize the debating style.

I'm not debating. Your poor attempt at discussing his focal
deficits is dangerous. I'd hazard a guess that your doctor
friend would agree.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last I checked, the recreational use of amphetamine
that leads one to a state of being "hooked" (John's
word), *makes* him a junkie.

Allow me to restate so there's no mistake at my meaning,
which there appears to be: It is easier to call "John"
and "[email hidden]" junkies--dismissing them-->

Anyways, we're talking about a freak. While it

Quoted message said:

would be nice to attribute his anxiety and agitation to
Paxil, it more than likely is due to the
(meth)amphetamine.

But you don't know that do you, and contradict your own
advice to me: "...how can a conclusion be made?" You make a
conclusion by saying "we're talking about a freak."

Quoted message said:

So you took a doctor's words

Opinion. With his permission. And another doctor could have
another opinion. But not likely if he's in the business of
this business. You know, the freak business.

I'm not debating. Your poor attempt at discussing his
focal deficits

Quoted message said:

is dangerous. I'd hazard a guess that your doctor friend
would agree.

I'm sure he would if I had. However, I'm discussing
stereotyping and prejudice and ignorance.

Zee

Quoted message said:

Anyways, we're talking about a freak. While it

Quoted message said:

would be nice to attribute his anxiety and agitation to
Paxil, it more than likely is due to the
(meth)amphetamine.

But you don't know that do you, and contradict your own
advice to me: "...how can a conclusion be made?" You make a
conclusion by saying "we're talking about a freak."

He admits that he is/was a speed freak. This is not in
dispute. A conclusive diagnosis cannot be made and for the
staff/resident to comment is one thing but for you to relay
this information is another. Since you appreciate car analogies--
you can't fix the car until you see/hear the problem.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So you took a doctor's words

Opinion. With his permission. And another doctor could have
another opinion. But not likely if he's in the business of
this business. You know, the freak business.

Is this an attempt at humour or is my terminology so old
that you don't recognize speed freak? Doctor's opinions
taken out of context can get doctors into trouble. He knows
this and his reputation partly depends on it. Being in the
environment (again, as support...a tech., RN, receptionist),
you probably realize this.

Quoted message said:

I'm not debating. Your poor attempt at discussing his
focal deficits

Quoted message said:

is dangerous. I'd hazard a guess that your doctor friend
would agree.

I'm sure he would if I had. However, I'm discussing
stereotyping and prejudice and ignorance.

Your post wasn't this simple as you did refer to focal
neurological deficits. The fact that "John" is a speed freak
isn't stereotyping, it's a fact.

Spinning wheels. All we can hope is that "John" hasn't
suffered the TIA to end all TIAs.