SS Belt Drive?

Quoted message said:

If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think the

drivetrain would last forever.

Most of my MC riding buds have belt-drive's on thier MC's that last 10's of
thousands of miles....

I'd certainly give it a try on the 29"er Disc SS, since it is about as much
of an oddball bike as you cna uild these days.

--
ITSN Gunterman USN
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.

On 11 Nov 2004 06:48:44 -0800, [email hidden] (supabonbon)

Quoted message said:

A couple riders have brought up a discussion on chainwear recently.
That made me recall a Jericho SS showing off a belt drive they called
'Red October'. I've also seen them on Strida folding bikes. I'm sure
it's not a new concept.
Anybody out there actually riding a belt? I'm curious about pros and
cons. If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think
the drivetrain would last forever.

Toothed belt drives are relatively common in Japan, where there is
significant demand for bikes that can be stored cleanly in a tiny
apartment. They have made few inroads elsewhere. The principle
reasons for this are their incompatibility with derailleur systems,
their lack of length adjustment capability to accomodate gearing
changes, and their cost. The last factor would be overcome quickly if
the other two were not important, but as it stands, the combination
makes them a moot issue for most markets.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"supabonbon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple riders have brought up a discussion on chainwear recently.
That made me recall a Jericho SS showing off a belt drive they called
'Red October'. I've also seen them on Strida folding bikes. I'm sure
it's not a new concept.
Anybody out there actually riding a belt? I'm curious about pros and
cons. If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think
the drivetrain would last forever.
/s

I saw a belt driven bike badged Mercedes Benz the car company, it was belt
driven 7sp nexus hub. The rear sprocket initially gave problems jumping
Mercedes did a Sun Planet gear mod at the sprocket and since then the bike
as done many thousands of trouble free miles with no adjustment.
I have a pic of the mod
Question can you attach a picture to a newsgroup reply as I have never seen
an a reply with one.

PK

peter.kidwell said:

Question can you attach a picture to a newsgroup reply as I have never seen
an a reply with one.

http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm#1.2.4

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:25:45 +0000, bomba <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

peter.kidwell said:

Question can you attach a picture to a newsgroup reply as I have never seen
an a reply with one.

http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm#1.2.4

Hey, I made 1.3.6.

nice,
bill

Bill Wheeler said:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:25:45 +0000, bomba <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

peter.kidwell said:

Question can you attach a picture to a newsgroup reply as I have never
seen
an a reply with one.

http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm#1.2.4

Hey, I made 1.3.6.

nice,
bill

Welcome to 2003, Rumpelstiltskin.
--
Slacker

--
Slacker

"bomba" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Question can you attach a picture to a newsgroup reply as I have never

seen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an a reply with one.

http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm#1.2.4

The clipless FAQ link is broken..
http://members.cox.net/jhnmorgan/mtb/CliplessFAQ.txt

other than that it's one of the funnier faq's I've
seen :-)

hippy

supabonbon said:

A couple riders have brought up a discussion on chainwear recently.
That made me recall a Jericho SS showing off a belt drive they called
'Red October'. I've also seen them on Strida folding bikes. I'm sure
it's not a new concept.
Anybody out there actually riding a belt? I'm curious about pros and
cons. If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think
the drivetrain would last forever.
/s

Jericho gave up on it because of the near impossibility of getting enough
tension on the belt to prevent it from skipping. However, since they
shelved the idea a revolution in SS design has happened, and now
horizontal dropouts are passe, so maybe with an eccentric BB setup the
belt drive could be revived...

miles

"miles todd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

supabonbon said:

A couple riders have brought up a discussion on chainwear recently.
That made me recall a Jericho SS showing off a belt drive they called
'Red October'. I've also seen them on Strida folding bikes. I'm sure
it's not a new concept.
Anybody out there actually riding a belt? I'm curious about pros and
cons. If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think
the drivetrain would last forever.
/s

Jericho gave up on it because of the near impossibility of getting enough
tension on the belt to prevent it from skipping. However, since they
shelved the idea a revolution in SS design has happened, and now
horizontal dropouts are passe, so maybe with an eccentric BB setup the
belt drive could be revived...

But it's about what works, not what may be passe or in style, Miles.
I don't trust that eccentric BB [censored] at my weight and never will.

JD never in style, just riding bikes

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:01:16 -0800, Slacker <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Welcome to 2003, Rumpelstiltskin.
--
Slacker

D'oh!
bill

(supabonbon) said:

A couple riders have brought up a discussion on chainwear recently.
That made me recall a Jericho SS showing off a belt drive they called
'Red October'. I've also seen them on Strida folding bikes. I'm sure
it's not a new concept.
Anybody out there actually riding a belt? I'm curious about pros and
cons. If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think
the drivetrain would last forever.

Thun made a belt drive that was used on a few specialty bikes. The
main drawback was that the bike either had to be without a
conventional rear triangle, or one of the drive side stays had to
split to allow the belt to be mounted.

http://www.senkels.de/fotos.htm
http://www.nsadler.demon.co.uk/moulton/bentpic.htm
http://www.nsadler.demon.co.uk/moulton/beltspec.htm

Some Rohloff Speedhub-equipped bikes have used toothed belts, but I
don't know who manufactured the sprockets:

http://encycleopedia.com/index.cfm?pid=23&edID=263&thePage=photos

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Some Rohloff Speedhub-equipped bikes have used toothed belts, but I
don't know who manufactured the sprockets:

The one in the link has a SRAM hub, but I'd love to try a Rohloff one.
I suppose one problem could be the belts going out of production; I
wonder if they could find a timing belt of suitable length from a very
high-volume car, which is likely to be available for decades to come?

JD said:

Quoted message said:

maybe with an eccentric BB setup the belt drive could be revived...

I don't trust that eccentric BB [censored] at my weight and never will.

Eccentric BBs have been used on tandems for a very long time, and most
tandem teams very likely outweigh you by quite a lot:

http://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/bbtandshell.jpg

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Zog The Undeniable said:

Chalo said:

Some Rohloff Speedhub-equipped bikes have used toothed belts, but I
don't know who manufactured the sprockets:

The one in the link has a SRAM hub, but I'd love to try a Rohloff one.

Ah! You're right-- but I know the EP-X Roadster was offered in a
Rohloff version. There were a few such frames with Rohloff-specific
dropouts offered on eBay in the last couple of years.

Chalo Colina

In rec.bicycles.tech Chalo <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>
:> Chalo wrote:
:> >
:> > Some Rohloff Speedhub-equipped bikes have used toothed belts, but I
:> > don't know who manufactured the sprockets:
:>
:> The one in the link has a SRAM hub, but I'd love to try a Rohloff one.

: Ah! You're right-- but I know the EP-X Roadster was offered in a
: Rohloff version. There were a few such frames with Rohloff-specific
: dropouts offered on eBay in the last couple of years.

That LucaBike that was mentioned earlier uses a Rohloff hub. It's visible
in this shot: http://www.lucabike.com/PressPhotos/pages/3-4%20View_jpg.htm

- Mark

Quoted message said:

That LucaBike that was mentioned earlier uses a Rohloff hub. It's

visible

Quoted message said:

in this shot:

http://www.lucabike.com/PressPhotos/pages/3-4%20View_jpg.htm

What the hell is THATsuposed to be!?!?!?!

--
ITSN Gunterman USN
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.

"miles todd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

supabonbon said:

A couple riders have brought up a discussion on chainwear recently.
That made me recall a Jericho SS showing off a belt drive they called
'Red October'. I've also seen them on Strida folding bikes. I'm sure
it's not a new concept.
Anybody out there actually riding a belt? I'm curious about pros and
cons. If they're trusted on motorcycles, why not bikes? You'd think
the drivetrain would last forever.
/s

Jericho gave up on it because of the near impossibility of getting enough
tension on the belt to prevent it from skipping. However, since they
shelved the idea a revolution in SS design has happened, and now
horizontal dropouts are passe, so maybe with an eccentric BB setup the
belt drive could be revived...

miles

Impossible to get enough tension?
I've never worked with an eccentric BB, so I don't think I understand
how it would be advantageous. The rear hub spindle sits fixed in a
vertical dropout. The eccentric is rotated by, what, hand(?) until the
chain or belt or whatever is taut. With your hands in an awkward
position, it doesn't sound like you'd have much leverage. Is there
some sort of tool you can affix to the bb for leverage? I was thinking
that maybe if you were on the bike, pulling on the bars and pushing
down you'd create plenty of force. Would that rotate the eccentric?
You could, say, set up the frame with angled rear dropouts (not fork
ends) like the old Campy ones. They had probably a 20-30degree angle
of decline. If I was sitting on the bike while someone tightened the
bolts, I'd imagine that would be pretty tight.
Or you could attach come-alongs to the frame and rear wheel and
ratchet just short of the point where you'd egg the wheel and reduce
your frame to shrapnel....
/s

/s

J G said:

Quoted message said:

That LucaBike that was mentioned earlier uses a Rohloff hub. It's

visible in this shot:
http://www.lucabike.com/PressPhotos/pages/3-4%20View_jpg.htm

What the hell is THATsuposed to be!?!?!?!

It's a fully suspended, belt-driven, geared, derailerless bicycle. Was
that so hard?

Yes it is unconventional, which means it will not likely get much market
penetration. The bicycle industry is very hard on innovators, partly
because most bikes already work very well, and partly because most
cyclists are hide-bound traditionalists.

Ergo, "What the hell is THAT supposed to be?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ted said:

J G said:

Quoted message said:

That LucaBike that was mentioned earlier uses a Rohloff hub. It's

visible in this shot:
http://www.lucabike.com/PressPhotos/pages/3-4%20View_jpg.htm

What the hell is THATsuposed to be!?!?!?!

It's a fully suspended, belt-driven, geared, derailerless bicycle. Was
that so hard?

Yes it is unconventional, which means it will not likely get much market
penetration. The bicycle industry is very hard on innovators, partly
because most bikes already work very well, and partly because most
cyclists are hide-bound traditionalists.

Ergo, "What the hell is THAT supposed to be?"

Well, some of us hide-bound traditionalists might have a better question:

What problem with current bikes is this bike design supposed to solve?

And following-up:

What compromises does it make to get there?

I went and took a look at the website.

This bicycle features some amazing new variation on elliptical pedaling
called "Luca Motion" (not to be confused with "Monkey Motion"😉 made
painfully manifest in this photo:

http://lucabike.com/photos/Medium%20LucaMotion.jpg

This is a semi-recumbent design. Look at the position of the handlebars:

http://lucabike.com/index.html

They're behind the BB. It should be virtually impossible to stand on the
pedals on this bicycle. You're supposed to lean against the seat, so it
seems like you might not even be able to sit down on this bike. I'm
going to give the maker the benefit of the doubt and assume that the
seat works better than it appears.

Sheldon Brown has actually ridden this thing, and describes it as
feeling quite good:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lasvegas/

He describes it as a "deluxe semi-recumbent cruiser".

I would now like to show you a not-as-deluxe, semi-recumbent cruiser
which likely has 95% of the benefits of the Luca Bike, is likely faster
(owing to a more efficient drivetrain), and which costs much less:

http://www.electrabike.com/04/bikes/05bikes/twn/05_twn_25.html

The Electra Townie 8. This is a really nice cruiser design. I like their
semi-recumbent flat-foot trick; I think this is an unintimidating bike
design for a lot of non-confident riders that gives them proper leg
extension to the pedals but also lets them flat-foot the bike. I'm
certain that whatever this bike loses by having only 8 speeds (vs. the
14-speed Rohloff on the Luca) it makes up by having one chain instead of
four belts (four!) in the drivetrain. Belts are fairly close to chains
in efficiency, but not four of them. The Townie 8 is the top of the
Townie line, and costs $700. I would guess that in production, a Luca,
with its complex carbon frame, fussy custom crank, and wacky rear
suspension, would have to cost at least $3000, and I doubt the
manufacturer would be making any money at that price. The Rohloff hub
alone is about $1000 retail; a Nexus 8 is about $200.

I'd also like to see a weight quotation on both bikes.

So, we're left with a semi-recumbent suspended cruiser that has a
distinctive style, some curious drivetrain and suspension ideas, and
probably costs far more than the market will bear.

What was the answer?

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.