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Squirrel attacks, lawyer called, idiocy ensues

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16 November 2006
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RonSonic
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  1. All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual warnings about squirrels
    and lawyers.

    Ron

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    True Stella Awards #77: 15 November 2006 www.StellaAwards.com
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HEY ROCKY! WATCH WHILE I PULL A LAWSUIT OUT OF THIS HAT
    by Randy Cassingham

    As we gear up for another season of holiday shopping, we grit our
    teeth, head to the mall ...and take our lives into our hands dealing with
    traffic, parking, crowds, harried salesclerks ...and killer squirrels.

    At least, that's what Marcy Meckler had to deal with at the Old
    Orchard Mall in Skokie, Ill., one Friday morning in December 2004. (A
    tough punk squirrel, that is.) She says she stepped out of the Tiffany &
    Co. jewelry store at the open-air mall and was making her way toward
    Nordstrom's when, she says, she "had a squirrel jump up and attach itself
    to her leg." Startling, to be sure, but "while frantically attempting to
    escape from the squirrel and detach it from her leg, [Meckler] fell and
    suffered severe injuries."

    The injuries were not described but Meckler's lawsuit, filed in Cook
    County Circuit Court with the help of attorney Glenn Guth, says they will
    cause her to "in the future endure pain and suffering in body and mind."
    The suit demands damages in excess of $50,000.

    So how in the world is that the mall's fault? Mall owner Westfield
    Corp., "by and through its agents, employees, servants and security
    personnel, was aware of the longtime presence of the said squirrel on the
    premises and allowed the squirrel to remain on the premises, despite the
    fact that the squirrel had previously attacked and harassed other
    customers, a fact known to Westfield," the suit says. Worse, the suit
    alleges mall employees "encouraged the squirrel to remain on the premises
    by feeding and caring for the squirrel, despite the dangerous conditions
    that arose from allowing said animal to remain on the premises." Even
    that may have been OK, except, the suit complains, the mall failed "to
    warn the plaintiff of the squirrel's presence."

    Yep, Westfield surely knew there were squirrels in the open air mall
    area. And I'll bet they even know for a fact that birds fly by overhead.
    Heck: even bees, which some people are deathly afraid of, probably visit
    the flowers planted around the stores. Some of those people have severe
    allergic reactions to bee stings, too, and could literally die from it.
    AND YET THEY DIDN'T WARN anyone of these things. Bah. All wildlife "could
    be" dangerous sometimes, but most of it is fine if we just leave it the
    hell alone and admire it, rather than harass it. Yet Meckler's suit
    demands that they must harass it.

    We share this planet with other living things. If we killed everything
    else to keep from inconveniencing petty, spoiled brats who spend their
    days buying bling, the planet would wither and die. So we deal with it if
    we want to go out in the world. Malls can't -- and shouldn't -- control
    scurrying wild animals any more than they can stop birds from crapping on
    windshields as shoppers' cars sit in the valet parking lot. But maybe we
    can do something about why-me crybabies who expect someone else to pay
    for overreacting to normal situations, even when they fall down and go
    boom. Significant monetary fines for filing frivolous actions comes to
    mind....

    SOURCES:
    1) "Mall Sued over Squirrel Attack", Chicago Sun-Times, 15 August 2006
    (no longer available online)

    2) "Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel", Sun-Times News
    Group Wire, 14 August 2006
    http://StellaAwards.com/cgi-bin/redirect5.pl?77a

  2. RonSonic said:

    All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual warnings about squirrels
    and lawyers.

    Ron

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    True Stella Awards #77: 15 November 2006 www.StellaAwards.com
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HEY ROCKY! WATCH WHILE I PULL A LAWSUIT OUT OF THIS HAT
    by Randy Cassingham

    As we gear up for another season of holiday shopping, we grit our
    teeth, head to the mall ...and take our lives into our hands dealing with
    traffic, parking, crowds, harried salesclerks ...and killer squirrels.

    At least, that's what Marcy Meckler had to deal with at the Old
    Orchard Mall in Skokie, Ill., one Friday morning in December 2004. (A
    tough punk squirrel, that is.) She says she stepped out of the Tiffany &
    Co. jewelry store at the open-air mall and was making her way toward
    Nordstrom's when, she says, she "had a squirrel jump up and attach itself
    to her leg." Startling, to be sure, but "while frantically attempting to
    escape from the squirrel and detach it from her leg, [Meckler] fell and
    suffered severe injuries."

    The injuries were not described but Meckler's lawsuit, filed in Cook
    County Circuit Court with the help of attorney Glenn Guth, says they will
    cause her to "in the future endure pain and suffering in body and mind."
    The suit demands damages in excess of $50,000.

    So how in the world is that the mall's fault? Mall owner Westfield
    Corp., "by and through its agents, employees, servants and security
    personnel, was aware of the longtime presence of the said squirrel on the
    premises and allowed the squirrel to remain on the premises, despite the
    fact that the squirrel had previously attacked and harassed other
    customers, a fact known to Westfield," the suit says. Worse, the suit
    alleges mall employees "encouraged the squirrel to remain on the premises
    by feeding and caring for the squirrel, despite the dangerous conditions
    that arose from allowing said animal to remain on the premises." Even
    that may have been OK, except, the suit complains, the mall failed "to
    warn the plaintiff of the squirrel's presence."

    Yep, Westfield surely knew there were squirrels in the open air mall
    area. And I'll bet they even know for a fact that birds fly by overhead.
    Heck: even bees, which some people are deathly afraid of, probably visit
    the flowers planted around the stores. Some of those people have severe
    allergic reactions to bee stings, too, and could literally die from it.
    AND YET THEY DIDN'T WARN anyone of these things. Bah. All wildlife "could
    be" dangerous sometimes, but most of it is fine if we just leave it the
    hell alone and admire it, rather than harass it. Yet Meckler's suit
    demands that they must harass it.

    We share this planet with other living things. If we killed everything
    else to keep from inconveniencing petty, spoiled brats who spend their
    days buying bling, the planet would wither and die. So we deal with it if
    we want to go out in the world. Malls can't -- and shouldn't -- control
    scurrying wild animals any more than they can stop birds from crapping on
    windshields as shoppers' cars sit in the valet parking lot. But maybe we
    can do something about why-me crybabies who expect someone else to pay
    for overreacting to normal situations, even when they fall down and go
    boom. Significant monetary fines for filing frivolous actions comes to
    mind....

    SOURCES:
    1) "Mall Sued over Squirrel Attack", Chicago Sun-Times, 15 August 2006
    (no longer available online)

    2) "Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel", Sun-Times News
    Group Wire, 14 August 2006
    http://StellaAwards.com/cgi-bin/redirect5.pl?77a

    Dear Ron,

    Would you defend an Australian restaurant that allowed salt-water
    crocodiles to devour its guests?

    A Kenyan pre-school playground known as a snack-bar to man-eating
    lions?

    The annual Amityville swim-with-a-great-white-shark festival?

    How many other innocent women wearing freshly-purchased jewelry
    stepped out of that Tiffany store and were never seen again?

    How many brazen squirrels are roaming that mall, festooned with the
    ear-rings, gold necklaces, and tacky bracelets of their victims?

    Need I remind you that there are no woolly mammoths left on earth?
    What clearer evidence can we have of the ruthless reign of the giant
    saber-toothed cave squirrels?

    Today the malls, tomorrow the world!

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  3. Per RonSonic:

    Quoted message said:

    All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual warnings about squirrels
    and lawyers.

    Ron

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    True Stella Awards #77: 15 November 2006 www.StellaAwards.com
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HEY ROCKY! WATCH WHILE I PULL A LAWSUIT OUT OF THIS HAT
    by Randy Cassingham

    As we gear up for another season of holiday shopping, we grit our
    teeth, head to the mall ...and take our lives into our hands dealing with
    traffic, parking, crowds, harried salesclerks ...and killer squirrels.

    I think the term is "deep pockets"...
    --
    PeteCresswell

  4. (PeteCresswell) said:

    Per RonSonic:

    Quoted message said:

    All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual warnings about squirrels
    and lawyers.
    I think the term is "deep pockets"...

    No matter what, they will get some money, just to settle the case.
    Vultures, that's what they are: a lot more dangerous than squirrels.

    Sergio
    Pisa

  5. carlfogel said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:35:06 -0500, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual warnings about
    squirrels and lawyers.

    Ron

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    True Stella Awards #77: 15 November 2006
    www.StellaAwards.com
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HEY ROCKY! WATCH WHILE I PULL A LAWSUIT OUT OF THIS HAT by Randy
    Cassingham

    As we gear up for another season of holiday shopping, we grit our
    teeth, head to the mall ...and take our lives into our hands dealing
    with traffic, parking, crowds, harried salesclerks ...and killer
    squirrels.

    At least, that's what Marcy Meckler had to deal with at the Old
    Orchard Mall in Skokie, Ill., one Friday morning in December 2004. (A
    tough punk squirrel, that is.) She says she stepped out of the Tiffany &
    Co. jewelry store at the open-air mall and was making her way toward
    Nordstrom's when, she says, she "had a squirrel jump up and attach
    itself to her leg." Startling, to be sure, but "while frantically
    attempting to escape from the squirrel and detach it from her leg,
    [Meckler] fell and suffered severe injuries."

    The injuries were not described but Meckler's lawsuit, filed in Cook
    County Circuit Court with the help of attorney Glenn Guth, says they
    will cause her to "in the future endure pain and suffering in body and
    mind." The suit demands damages in excess of $50,000.

    So how in the world is that the mall's fault? Mall owner Westfield
    Corp., "by and through its agents, employees, servants and security
    personnel, was aware of the longtime presence of the said squirrel on
    the premises and allowed the squirrel to remain on the premises, despite
    the fact that the squirrel had previously attacked and harassed other
    customers, a fact known to Westfield," the suit says. Worse, the suit
    alleges mall employees "encouraged the squirrel to remain on the
    premises by feeding and caring for the squirrel, despite the dangerous
    conditions that arose from allowing said animal to remain on the
    premises." Even that may have been OK, except, the suit complains, the
    mall failed "to warn the plaintiff of the squirrel's presence."

    Yep, Westfield surely knew there were squirrels in the open air mall
    area. And I'll bet they even know for a fact that birds fly by overhead.
    Heck: even bees, which some people are deathly afraid of, probably visit
    the flowers planted around the stores. Some of those people have severe
    allergic reactions to bee stings, too, and could literally die from it.
    AND YET THEY DIDN'T WARN anyone of these things. Bah. All wildlife
    "could be" dangerous sometimes, but most of it is fine if we just leave
    it the hell alone and admire it, rather than harass it. Yet Meckler's
    suit demands that they must harass it.

    We share this planet with other living things. If we killed everything
    else to keep from inconveniencing petty, spoiled brats who spend their
    days buying bling, the planet would wither and die. So we deal with it
    if we want to go out in the world. Malls can't -- and shouldn't --
    control scurrying wild animals any more than they can stop birds from
    crapping on windshields as shoppers' cars sit in the valet parking lot.
    But maybe we can do something about why-me crybabies who expect someone
    else to pay for overreacting to normal situations, even when they fall
    down and go boom. Significant monetary fines for filing frivolous
    actions comes to mind....

    SOURCES:
    1) "Mall Sued over Squirrel Attack", Chicago Sun-Times, 15 August 2006
    (no longer available online)

    2) "Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel", Sun-Times News
    Group Wire, 14 August 2006
    http://StellaAwards.com/cgi-bin/redirect5.pl?77a

    Dear Ron,

    Would you defend an Australian restaurant that allowed salt-water
    crocodiles to devour its guests?

    A Kenyan pre-school playground known as a snack-bar to man-eating lions?

    The annual Amityville swim-with-a-great-white-shark festival?

    How many other innocent women wearing freshly-purchased jewelry stepped
    out of that Tiffany store and were never seen again?

    How many brazen squirrels are roaming that mall, festooned with the
    ear-rings, gold necklaces, and tacky bracelets of their victims?

    Need I remind you that there are no woolly mammoths left on earth? What
    clearer evidence can we have of the ruthless reign of the giant
    saber-toothed cave squirrels?

    Today the malls, tomorrow the world!

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous lawsuit. The
    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to have read it
    very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be protected
    against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife. Instead, she's
    arguing that the management knew about one particular dangerous squirrel
    and not only didn't do anything about it, but actively encouraged it to
    remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's remember that a squirrel is
    basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for instance, she
    fell and broke a hip.

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the Stella Awards.
    The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff who sued
    McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she spilled coffee.

    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not frivolous:

    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

  6. Gary Young said:
    carlfogel said:
    RonSonic said:


    All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual warnings
    about squirrels and lawyers.

    Ron

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    True Stella Awards #77: 15 November 2006
    www.StellaAwards.com
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HEY ROCKY! WATCH WHILE I PULL A LAWSUIT OUT OF THIS HAT by Randy
    Cassingham

    As we gear up for another season of holiday shopping, we grit our
    teeth, head to the mall ...and take our lives into our hands dealing
    with traffic, parking, crowds, harried salesclerks ...and killer
    squirrels.

    At least, that's what Marcy Meckler had to deal with at the Old
    Orchard Mall in Skokie, Ill., one Friday morning in December 2004.
    (A tough punk squirrel, that is.) She says she stepped out of the
    Tiffany & Co. jewelry store at the open-air mall and was making her
    way toward Nordstrom's when, she says, she "had a squirrel jump up
    and attach itself to her leg." Startling, to be sure, but "while
    frantically attempting to escape from the squirrel and detach it
    from her leg, [Meckler] fell and suffered severe injuries."

    The injuries were not described but Meckler's lawsuit, filed in
    Cook County Circuit Court with the help of attorney Glenn Guth,
    says they will cause her to "in the future endure pain and
    suffering in body and mind." The suit demands damages in excess of
    $50,000.

    So how in the world is that the mall's fault? Mall owner Westfield
    Corp., "by and through its agents, employees, servants and security
    personnel, was aware of the longtime presence of the said squirrel
    on the premises and allowed the squirrel to remain on the premises,
    despite the fact that the squirrel had previously attacked and
    harassed other customers, a fact known to Westfield," the suit
    says. Worse, the suit alleges mall employees "encouraged the
    squirrel to remain on the premises by feeding and caring for the
    squirrel, despite the dangerous conditions that arose from allowing
    said animal to remain on the premises." Even that may have been OK,
    except, the suit complains, the mall failed "to warn the plaintiff
    of the squirrel's presence."

    Yep, Westfield surely knew there were squirrels in the open air
    mall area. And I'll bet they even know for a fact that birds fly by
    overhead. Heck: even bees, which some people are deathly afraid of,
    probably visit the flowers planted around the stores. Some of those
    people have severe allergic reactions to bee stings, too, and could
    literally die from it. AND YET THEY DIDN'T WARN anyone of these
    things. Bah. All wildlife "could be" dangerous sometimes, but most
    of it is fine if we just leave it the hell alone and admire it,
    rather than harass it. Yet Meckler's suit demands that they must
    harass it.

    We share this planet with other living things. If we killed
    everything else to keep from inconveniencing petty, spoiled brats
    who spend their days buying bling, the planet would wither and die.
    So we deal with it if we want to go out in the world. Malls can't
    -- and shouldn't -- control scurrying wild animals any more than
    they can stop birds from crapping on windshields as shoppers' cars
    sit in the valet parking lot. But maybe we can do something about
    why-me crybabies who expect someone else to pay for overreacting to
    normal situations, even when they fall down and go boom.
    Significant monetary fines for filing frivolous actions comes to
    mind....

    SOURCES:
    1) "Mall Sued over Squirrel Attack", Chicago Sun-Times, 15 August
    2006 (no longer available online)

    2) "Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel", Sun-Times
    News Group Wire, 14 August 2006
    http://StellaAwards.com/cgi-bin/redirect5.pl?77a

    Dear Ron,

    Would you defend an Australian restaurant that allowed salt-water
    crocodiles to devour its guests?

    A Kenyan pre-school playground known as a snack-bar to man-eating
    lions?

    The annual Amityville swim-with-a-great-white-shark festival?

    How many other innocent women wearing freshly-purchased jewelry
    stepped out of that Tiffany store and were never seen again?

    How many brazen squirrels are roaming that mall, festooned with the
    ear-rings, gold necklaces, and tacky bracelets of their victims?

    Need I remind you that there are no woolly mammoths left on earth?
    What clearer evidence can we have of the ruthless reign of the giant
    saber-toothed cave squirrels?

    Today the malls, tomorrow the world!

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous lawsuit. The
    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to have read
    it very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be
    protected against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife.
    Instead, she's arguing that the management knew about one particular
    dangerous squirrel and not only didn't do anything about it, but
    actively encouraged it to remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's
    remember that a squirrel is basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for instance,
    she fell and broke a hip.

    That's roughly (but much better put) what I said when this was first posted
    a few months ago. No one hates greedy, irresponsible (literal meaning)
    lawsuits more than I; don't think this was one.

    Quoted message said:

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the Stella
    Awards. The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff
    who sued McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she
    spilled coffee.

    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not
    frivolous:

    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

    Yup. (I scalded my lip on "loose pizza cheese" one time; never occurred to
    me to sue, but it wouldn't have been too unreasonable. Didn't even get a
    free desert. Wah.)

  7. On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:08:36 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous lawsuit. The
    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to have read it
    very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be protected
    against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife. Instead, she's
    arguing that the management knew about one particular dangerous squirrel
    and not only didn't do anything about it, but actively encouraged it to
    remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's remember that a squirrel is
    basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for instance, she
    fell and broke a hip.

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the Stella Awards.
    The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff who sued
    McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she spilled coffee.

    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not frivolous:

    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

    Dear Gary,

    Frivolity aside, I agree about the Stella case. Suing over spilled
    coffee sounds absurd until you find out how bad her actual injury was
    and how McDonalds had refused to stop injuring its customers.

    Most people who dismiss the case of the woman who sued over the hot
    coffee are unaware that McDonalds had settled hundreds of previous
    cases of people being badly scalded and kept serving coffee the same
    way.

    If you spill coffee that hot on your lap while sitting in a car and
    wearing ordinary clothes, you'll be badly injured and learn how
    painful skin grafts are.

    That's why the jury found in favor of Stella.

    Here on RBT, we'd just ask anyone who disagreed to let a local bike
    shop spill a cup of coffee that hot on his crotch, his medical bills,
    and say whether the LBS should keep doing that to riders.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  8. Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:08:36 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous lawsuit. The
    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to have read it
    very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be protected
    against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife. Instead, she's
    arguing that the management knew about one particular dangerous squirrel
    and not only didn't do anything about it, but actively encouraged it to
    remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's remember that a squirrel is
    basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for instance, she
    fell and broke a hip.

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the Stella Awards.
    The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff who sued
    McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she spilled coffee.

    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not frivolous:

    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

    Dear Gary,

    Frivolity aside, I agree about the Stella case. Suing over spilled
    coffee sounds absurd until you find out how bad her actual injury was
    and how McDonalds had refused to stop injuring its customers.

    Most people who dismiss the case of the woman who sued over the hot
    coffee are unaware that McDonalds had settled hundreds of previous
    cases of people being badly scalded and kept serving coffee the same
    way.

    If you spill coffee that hot on your lap while sitting in a car and
    wearing ordinary clothes, you'll be badly injured and learn how
    painful skin grafts are.

    That's why the jury found in favor of Stella.

    Here on RBT, we'd just ask anyone who disagreed to let a local bike
    shop spill a cup of coffee that hot on his crotch, his medical bills,
    and say whether the LBS should keep doing that to riders.

    All good points, but I can't get past this:

    Quoted post said:


    The plaintiffs were apparently able to document 700 cases of burns from
    McDonald's coffee over 10 years, or 70 burns per year. But that doesn't
    take into account how many cups are sold without incident. A McDonald's
    consultant pointed out the 700 cases in 10 years represents just 1
    injury per 24 million cups sold! For every injury, no matter how severe,
    23,999,999 people managed to drink their coffee without any injury
    whatever. Isn't that proof that the coffee is not "unreasonably dangerous"

    That's a pretty high success rate. Much higher than several engineering
    systems that come to mind.
    \\paul

    --
    Paul M. Hobson
    Georgia Institute of Technology
    ..:change the f to ph to reply:.

  9. "Gary Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    carlfogel said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:35:06 -0500, RonSonic


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    All quotage. I'm afraid I can add nothing but the usual


    warnings about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    squirrels and lawyers.

    Ron

    Quoted message said:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    ----------

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    True Stella Awards #77: 15 November 2006
    www.StellaAwards.com

    Quoted message said:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    ----------

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    HEY ROCKY! WATCH WHILE I PULL A LAWSUIT OUT OF THIS HAT by


    Randy

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Cassingham

    As we gear up for another season of holiday shopping, we


    grit our

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    teeth, head to the mall ...and take our lives into our hands


    dealing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with traffic, parking, crowds, harried salesclerks ...and


    killer

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    squirrels.

    At least, that's what Marcy Meckler had to deal with at the


    Old

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Orchard Mall in Skokie, Ill., one Friday morning in December


    2004. (A

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    tough punk squirrel, that is.) She says she stepped out of


    the Tiffany &

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Co. jewelry store at the open-air mall and was making her way


    toward

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Nordstrom's when, she says, she "had a squirrel jump up and


    attach

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    itself to her leg." Startling, to be sure, but "while


    frantically

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    attempting to escape from the squirrel and detach it from her


    leg,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [Meckler] fell and suffered severe injuries."

    The injuries were not described but Meckler's lawsuit,


    filed in Cook

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    County Circuit Court with the help of attorney Glenn Guth,


    says they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will cause her to "in the future endure pain and suffering in


    body and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
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    mind." The suit demands damages in excess of $50,000.

    So how in the world is that the mall's fault? Mall owner


    Westfield

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Corp., "by and through its agents, employees, servants and


    security

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    personnel, was aware of the longtime presence of the said


    squirrel on

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the premises and allowed the squirrel to remain on the


    premises, despite

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the fact that the squirrel had previously attacked and


    harassed other

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    customers, a fact known to Westfield," the suit says. Worse,


    the suit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    alleges mall employees "encouraged the squirrel to remain on


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    premises by feeding and caring for the squirrel, despite the


    dangerous

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    conditions that arose from allowing said animal to remain on


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    premises." Even that may have been OK, except, the suit


    complains, the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mall failed "to warn the plaintiff of the squirrel's


    presence."

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Yep, Westfield surely knew there were squirrels in the open


    air mall

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    area. And I'll bet they even know for a fact that birds fly


    by overhead.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Heck: even bees, which some people are deathly afraid of,


    probably visit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the flowers planted around the stores. Some of those people


    have severe

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    allergic reactions to bee stings, too, and could literally


    die from it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    AND YET THEY DIDN'T WARN anyone of these things. Bah. All


    wildlife

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "could be" dangerous sometimes, but most of it is fine if we


    just leave

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it the hell alone and admire it, rather than harass it. Yet


    Meckler's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    suit demands that they must harass it.

    We share this planet with other living things. If we killed


    everything

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    else to keep from inconveniencing petty, spoiled brats who


    spend their

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    days buying bling, the planet would wither and die. So we


    deal with it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    if we want to go out in the world. Malls can't -- and


    shouldn't --

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    control scurrying wild animals any more than they can stop


    birds from

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    crapping on windshields as shoppers' cars sit in the valet


    parking lot.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But maybe we can do something about why-me crybabies who


    expect someone

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    else to pay for overreacting to normal situations, even when


    they fall

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    down and go boom. Significant monetary fines for filing


    frivolous

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    actions comes to mind....

    SOURCES:
    1) "Mall Sued over Squirrel Attack", Chicago Sun-Times, 15


    August 2006

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (no longer available online)

    2) "Lawsuit: Shopping Center Aided Attacking Squirrel",


    Sun-Times News

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Group Wire, 14 August 2006
    http://StellaAwards.com/cgi-bin/redirect5.pl?77a

    Dear Ron,

    Would you defend an Australian restaurant that allowed


    salt-water

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    crocodiles to devour its guests?

    A Kenyan pre-school playground known as a snack-bar to


    man-eating lions?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    The annual Amityville swim-with-a-great-white-shark festival?

    How many other innocent women wearing freshly-purchased


    jewelry stepped

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    out of that Tiffany store and were never seen again?

    How many brazen squirrels are roaming that mall, festooned


    with the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ear-rings, gold necklaces, and tacky bracelets of their


    victims?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Need I remind you that there are no woolly mammoths left on


    earth? What

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clearer evidence can we have of the ruthless reign of the


    giant

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    saber-toothed cave squirrels?

    Today the malls, tomorrow the world!

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous


    lawsuit. The

    Quoted message said:

    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to


    have read it

    Quoted message said:

    very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be


    protected

    Quoted message said:

    against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife.


    Instead, she's

    Quoted message said:

    arguing that the management knew about one particular dangerous


    squirrel

    Quoted message said:

    and not only didn't do anything about it, but actively


    encouraged it to

    Quoted message said:

    remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's remember that a


    squirrel is

    Quoted message said:

    basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for


    instance, she

    Quoted message said:

    fell and broke a hip.

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the


    Stella Awards.

    Quoted message said:

    The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff who


    sued

    Quoted message said:

    McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she


    spilled coffee.

    Quoted message said:


    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not


    frivolous:

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

    Here is the complaint:
    http://www.courthousenews.com/squirrel.pdf The squirrel had
    "attacked and harrassed" other customers. Harrassed? Hmmm.
    Maybe it had a foul mouth. I wonder if it had actually pounced
    and bitten before.

    The old rule was that "every dog has one bite," meaning that you
    had to know that a dog was a biter before you could be held
    liable for a bite. The statutes in most states have changed that
    rule for dogs, but I would think that a landowner would only be
    subject to liability for a squirrel if it knew the squirrel was a
    biter. Usually they just jump in to your spokes, but I guess
    this one was a real thug -- but maybe not a known biter. -- Jay
    Beattie.

  10. Paul Hobson said:

    All good points, but I can't get past this:

    Quoted post said:


    The plaintiffs were apparently able to document 700 cases of burns
    from McDonald's coffee over 10 years, or 70 burns per year. But that
    doesn't take into account how many cups are sold without incident. A
    McDonald's consultant pointed out the 700 cases in 10 years
    represents just 1 injury per 24 million cups sold! For every injury, no
    matter how
    severe, 23,999,999 people managed to drink their coffee without any
    injury whatever. Isn't that proof that the coffee is not
    "unreasonably dangerous"

    That's a pretty high success rate. Much higher than several
    engineering systems that come to mind.

    Have you ever been in a drive-thru and the person hands you a soda with the
    top not properly attached? Or the cup is cheap and weak and when you grasp
    it the sides collapse? Or both of these?

    Now say instead of sticky cola it's super-hot coffee that spills on your
    hand, so you drop the cup in your lap and get further burned pretty badly.
    (And maybe hit the gas pedal accidentally and slam into the couple w/baby in
    front of you.)

    Are you saying you'd take full responsibility for all that and absolve the
    fast-food joint entirely?

    The scenario's not that far-fetched IMO.

  11. Paul Hobson said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:08:36 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous lawsuit. The
    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to have read it
    very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be protected
    against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife. Instead, she's
    arguing that the management knew about one particular dangerous squirrel
    and not only didn't do anything about it, but actively encouraged it to
    remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's remember that a squirrel is
    basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for instance, she
    fell and broke a hip.

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the Stella Awards.
    The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff who sued
    McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she spilled coffee.

    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not frivolous:

    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

    Dear Gary,

    Frivolity aside, I agree about the Stella case. Suing over spilled
    coffee sounds absurd until you find out how bad her actual injury was
    and how McDonalds had refused to stop injuring its customers.

    Most people who dismiss the case of the woman who sued over the hot
    coffee are unaware that McDonalds had settled hundreds of previous
    cases of people being badly scalded and kept serving coffee the same
    way.

    If you spill coffee that hot on your lap while sitting in a car and
    wearing ordinary clothes, you'll be badly injured and learn how
    painful skin grafts are.

    That's why the jury found in favor of Stella.

    Here on RBT, we'd just ask anyone who disagreed to let a local bike
    shop spill a cup of coffee that hot on his crotch, his medical bills,
    and say whether the LBS should keep doing that to riders.

    All good points, but I can't get past this:

    Quoted post said:


    The plaintiffs were apparently able to document 700 cases of burns from
    McDonald's coffee over 10 years, or 70 burns per year. But that doesn't
    take into account how many cups are sold without incident. A McDonald's
    consultant pointed out the 700 cases in 10 years represents just 1
    injury per 24 million cups sold! For every injury, no matter how severe,
    23,999,999 people managed to drink their coffee without any injury
    whatever. Isn't that proof that the coffee is not "unreasonably dangerous"

    Coffee is supposed to be hot. Coffee should be brewed between
    something like 200 and 205F, and tossed when it goes below something
    like 170F. The suit against McDonald's made the argument that coffee
    should not be hot (the coffee was something in the 180's, barely still
    passable), which led to the era of nasty, lukewarm sludge being passed
    off to the masses in fear that others would sue.

    - rick

  12. "Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Here is the complaint:
    http://www.courthousenews.com/squirrel.pdf The squirrel had
    "attacked and harrassed" other customers. Harrassed? Hmmm.
    Maybe it had a foul mouth. I wonder if it had actually pounced
    and bitten before.

    The old rule was that "every dog has one bite," meaning that you
    had to know that a dog was a biter before you could be held
    liable for a bite. The statutes in most states have changed that
    rule for dogs, but I would think that a landowner would only be
    subject to liability for a squirrel if it knew the squirrel was a
    biter. Usually they just jump in to your spokes, but I guess
    this one was a real thug -- but maybe not a known biter. -- Jay
    Beattie.


    The shopping center may have had signs stating no bicycle riding within
    the confines thus protecting cyclists from rabid squirrel attracts but
    also keeping squirrels from pursuing their natural instincts to jump
    into rotating devices (squirrel cages which bicycle wheels resemble).

  13. On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:05:42 -0800, Jay Beattie wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Here is the complaint:
    http://www.courthousenews.com/squirrel.pdf The squirrel had
    "attacked and harrassed" other customers. Harrassed? Hmmm.
    Maybe it had a foul mouth. I wonder if it had actually pounced
    and bitten before.

    The old rule was that "every dog has one bite," meaning that you
    had to know that a dog was a biter before you could be held
    liable for a bite. The statutes in most states have changed that
    rule for dogs, but I would think that a landowner would only be
    subject to liability for a squirrel if it knew the squirrel was a
    biter. Usually they just jump in to your spokes, but I guess
    this one was a real thug -- but maybe not a known biter. -- Jay
    Beattie.

    I said the lawsuit isn't necessarily frivolous -- it's possible that it
    is in light of the facts. Even so, you're simply assuming that this
    squirrel had never attacked before. As someone who's occasionally had to
    wrestle my lunch from thieving squirrels in Central Park, I'm not entirely
    convinced of their innate goodness.

    Also, the plaintiff never says she was bitten -- "attached itself to her
    leg" could mean that it dug in its claws.

    In any event, whatever the merits of the case, I still think
    the Stella Awards guy mischaracterized the complaint. And I see no evidence
    that he tried to ascertain whether the facts were as stated in the
    complaint. Did he even bother to call the lawyers? I call that frivolous
    journalism.

  14. Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:08:36 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I don't think this is necessarily a frivolous lawsuit. The
    Stella Awards guy quotes the complaint, but doesn't seem to have read it
    very closely. The plaintiff isn't arguing that she should be protected
    against the everyday dangers of any old stray wildlife. Instead, she's
    arguing that the management knew about one particular dangerous squirrel
    and not only didn't do anything about it, but actively encouraged it to
    remain on the premises by feeding it. Let's remember that a squirrel is
    basically a rat with a bushy tail.

    Also, damages of $50,000 doesn't seem out of line if, for instance, she
    fell and broke a hip.

    IMO, this kind of sloppiness is not all that rare from the Stella Awards.
    The name itself indicates that -- Stella was the plaintiff who sued
    McDonald's after she suffered third degree burns when she spilled coffee.

    Even the Stella Awards has admitted that Stella's case was not frivolous:

    http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

    Dear Gary,

    Frivolity aside, I agree about the Stella case. Suing over spilled
    coffee sounds absurd until you find out how bad her actual injury was
    and how McDonalds had refused to stop injuring its customers.

    Most people who dismiss the case of the woman who sued over the hot
    coffee are unaware that McDonalds had settled hundreds of previous
    cases of people being badly scalded and kept serving coffee the same
    way.

    If you spill coffee that hot on your lap while sitting in a car and
    wearing ordinary clothes, you'll be badly injured and learn how
    painful skin grafts are.

    That's why the jury found in favor of Stella.

    Here on RBT, we'd just ask anyone who disagreed to let a local bike
    shop spill a cup of coffee that hot on his crotch, his medical bills,
    and say whether the LBS should keep doing that to riders.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    I think the Stella McDonald's case is a frivolous lawsuit. Has it not
    occurred to people that driving with hot scalding coffee (or even a
    burger) is inherently dangerous? How is this any different than
    talking on the cell phones or reading the newspaper while you're behind
    the wheel?

    It makes much more sense to sue McDonald's (and other fast food
    restaurants) to shut down drive thru's than to claim McD server coffee
    "improperly."

    It amuses me that Sornson, who is as close as a right wingnut as one
    could get, would imply Stella had no personal responsibility in
    deciding to go through the drive thru and accept hot scalding coffee,
    and that McD was at fault.

    Only in the United States would a "jury of peers" see nothing wrong
    with going through a drive thru in the first place. Just because it
    has become a social "norm" doesn't mean it's a safe activity in the
    first place (like taking on cell phone behind wheel).

  15. On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:51:47 -0800, damyth wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    I think the Stella McDonald's case is a frivolous lawsuit. Has it not
    occurred to people that driving with hot scalding coffee (or even a
    burger) is inherently dangerous? How is this any different than
    talking on the cell phones or reading the newspaper while you're behind
    the wheel?

    She wasn't behind the wheel. From the Stella Awards webpage:

    "Stella was not driving when she pulled the lid off her scalding McDonald's
    coffee. Her grandson was driving the car, and he had pulled over to stop
    so she could add cream and sugar to the cup."

    Quoted message said:


    It makes much more sense to sue McDonald's (and other fast food
    restaurants) to shut down drive thru's than to claim McD server coffee
    "improperly."


    Since she wasn't driving when scalded, I don't see what the drivethrough
    has to do with it.

    Quoted message said:

    It amuses me that Sornson, who is as close as a right wingnut as one
    could get, would imply Stella had no personal responsibility in deciding
    to go through the drive thru and accept hot scalding coffee, and that
    McD was at fault.

    Only in the United States would a "jury of peers" see nothing wrong with
    going through a drive thru in the first place. Just because it has
    become a social "norm" doesn't mean it's a safe activity in the first
    place (like taking on cell phone behind wheel).

    Again, she wasn't behind the wheel and the car was stopped when she
    spilled the coffee.

    In saying that her case is nonfrivolous, I'm not saying that she should
    necessarily win, only that it's not a slam dunk. I believe several
    appellate courts have considered similar cases, and haven't always favored
    her position. The one that I've read -- from the 7th U.S. Circuit -- went
    through a thorough balancing of the pros and cons before deciding against
    a Stella-like plaintiff. A case that requires the 7th Circuit to think
    things through is not frivolous.

    Finally, I think Stella's case has provided a public service -- I had no
    idea, and I'll wager other people didn't either, that you could get
    third-degree burns from hot coffee. I know better now.

  16. "Gary Young" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:05:42 -0800, Jay Beattie wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Here is the complaint:
    http://www.courthousenews.com/squirrel.pdf The squirrel had
    "attacked and harrassed" other customers. Harrassed? Hmmm.
    Maybe it had a foul mouth. I wonder if it had actually


    pounced

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and bitten before.

    The old rule was that "every dog has one bite," meaning that


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    had to know that a dog was a biter before you could be held
    liable for a bite. The statutes in most states have changed


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    rule for dogs, but I would think that a landowner would only


    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    subject to liability for a squirrel if it knew the squirrel


    was a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    biter. Usually they just jump in to your spokes, but I guess
    this one was a real thug -- but maybe not a known biter. --


    Jay

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Beattie.

    I said the lawsuit isn't necessarily frivolous -- it's possible


    that it

    Quoted message said:

    is in light of the facts. Even so, you're simply assuming that


    this

    Quoted message said:

    squirrel had never attacked before. As someone who's


    occasionally had to

    Quoted message said:

    wrestle my lunch from thieving squirrels in Central Park, I'm


    not entirely

    Quoted message said:

    convinced of their innate goodness.

    Also, the plaintiff never says she was bitten -- "attached


    itself to her

    Quoted message said:

    leg" could mean that it dug in its claws.

    In any event, whatever the merits of the case, I still think
    the Stella Awards guy mischaracterized the complaint. And I see


    no evidence

    Quoted message said:

    that he tried to ascertain whether the facts were as stated in


    the

    Quoted message said:

    complaint. Did he even bother to call the lawyers? I call that


    frivolous

    Quoted message said:

    journalism.

    You're right, there is no biting allegation -- so the squirrel
    would have to have a prior history of "pouncing and attaching" to
    put the mall on notice of its dangerous propensities. Also, I
    never said it was frivolous, although I do think it is a pretty
    funny complaint. I could just picture this upscale lady swatting
    at a chattering squirrel with her Louis Vuitton purse. It is
    like something out of Pixar film. -- Jay Beattie.

  17. damyth (WHO???) said:

    It amuses me that Sornson, who is as close as a right wingnut as one
    could get, would imply Stella had no personal responsibility in
    deciding to go through the drive thru and accept hot scalding coffee,
    and that McD was at fault.

    Please re-post what I wrote about "Stella" (never mentioned her) and "McD"
    (never mentioned it).

    Otherwise, scathing commentary.

    Bill "whoever the hell you are" S.

  18. Gary Young said:

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:51:47 -0800, damyth wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    I think the Stella McDonald's case is a frivolous lawsuit. Has it not
    occurred to people that driving with hot scalding coffee (or even a
    burger) is inherently dangerous? How is this any different than
    talking on the cell phones or reading the newspaper while you're behind
    the wheel?

    She wasn't behind the wheel. From the Stella Awards webpage:

    "Stella was not driving when she pulled the lid off her scalding McDonald's
    coffee. Her grandson was driving the car, and he had pulled over to stop
    so she could add cream and sugar to the cup."

    Quoted message said:


    It makes much more sense to sue McDonald's (and other fast food
    restaurants) to shut down drive thru's than to claim McD server coffee
    "improperly."


    Since she wasn't driving when scalded, I don't see what the drivethrough
    has to do with it.

    Quoted message said:

    It amuses me that Sornson, who is as close as a right wingnut as one
    could get, would imply Stella had no personal responsibility in deciding
    to go through the drive thru and accept hot scalding coffee, and that
    McD was at fault.

    Only in the United States would a "jury of peers" see nothing wrong with
    going through a drive thru in the first place. Just because it has
    become a social "norm" doesn't mean it's a safe activity in the first
    place (like taking on cell phone behind wheel).

    Again, she wasn't behind the wheel and the car was stopped when she
    spilled the coffee.

    In saying that her case is nonfrivolous, I'm not saying that she should
    necessarily win, only that it's not a slam dunk. I believe several
    appellate courts have considered similar cases, and haven't always favored
    her position. The one that I've read -- from the 7th U.S. Circuit -- went
    through a thorough balancing of the pros and cons before deciding against
    a Stella-like plaintiff. A case that requires the 7th Circuit to think
    things through is not frivolous.

    Finally, I think Stella's case has provided a public service -- I had no
    idea, and I'll wager other people didn't either, that you could get
    third-degree burns from hot coffee. I know better now.

    I am well aware that in Stella's case she wasn't behind the wheel. The
    "culpability," if you will, lies in the fact that she accepted a hot
    cup of coffee in the car in the first place. The cup could have spilled
    at any time while the vehicle was moving. The fact that her grandson
    was behind the wheel in this case (and claimed that the car was stopped
    when the accident happened, were there any other witnesses to this
    claim outside of the car) is almost immaterial. She did not have a
    stable platform in which to add sugar and cream, even if the car was
    stopped.

    Furthermore, just because you as an adult don't happen to "know" that
    100+ degC water can give you third degree burns does not absolve you or
    anyone else of personal responsibility. Just because you're devoid of
    common sense doesn't make McD "responsible." Places like Starbucks are
    just accidents waiting to happen. Customer turns around from counter,
    and bumps into somebody, spilling hot coffee all over each other.

  19. Bill Sornson said:
    damyth (WHO???) said:

    It amuses me that Sornson, who is as close as a right wingnut as one
    could get, would imply Stella had no personal responsibility in
    deciding to go through the drive thru and accept hot scalding coffee,
    and that McD was at fault.

    Please re-post what I wrote about "Stella" (never mentioned her) and
    "McD" (never mentioned it).

    Otherwise, scathing commentary.

    Bill "whoever the hell you are" S.

    Hell, since you're likely as lazy as you are dishonest, *I'll* re-post it:

    "Have you ever been in a drive-thru and the person hands you a soda with the
    top not properly attached? Or the cup is cheap and weak and when you grasp
    it the sides collapse? Or both of these?

    "Now say instead of sticky cola it's super-hot coffee that spills on your
    hand, so you drop the cup in your lap and get further burned pretty badly.
    (And maybe hit the gas pedal accidentally and slam into the couple w/baby in
    front of you.)

    "Are you saying you'd take full responsibility for all that and absolve the
    fast-food joint entirely?

    "The scenario's not that far-fetched IMO."

    I wasn't talking about Stella, fella. (I'll go out on a limb and assume
    you're somewhat male.)

    HAND. (I'm going riding...sleeveless. Rough.)

  20. Bill Sornson said:
    Bill Sornson said:
    damyth (WHO???) said:

    It amuses me that Sornson, who is as close as a right wingnut as one
    could get, would imply Stella had no personal responsibility in
    deciding to go through the drive thru and accept hot scalding coffee,
    and that McD was at fault.

    Please re-post what I wrote about "Stella" (never mentioned her) and
    "McD" (never mentioned it).

    Otherwise, scathing commentary.

    Bill "whoever the hell you are" S.

    Hell, since you're likely as lazy as you are dishonest, *I'll* re-post it:

    "Have you ever been in a drive-thru and the person hands you a soda with the
    top not properly attached? Or the cup is cheap and weak and when you grasp
    it the sides collapse? Or both of these?

    "Now say instead of sticky cola it's super-hot coffee that spills on your
    hand, so you drop the cup in your lap and get further burned pretty badly.
    (And maybe hit the gas pedal accidentally and slam into the couple w/baby in
    front of you.)

    "Are you saying you'd take full responsibility for all that and absolve the
    fast-food joint entirely?

    "The scenario's not that far-fetched IMO."

    I wasn't talking about Stella, fella. (I'll go out on a limb and assume
    you're somewhat male.)

    HAND. (I'm going riding...sleeveless. Rough.)

    And perhaps you ought to take some reading comprehension courses. I
    never said "you said." I did say "you _implied_."

    Your point was attendants at drive thru could serve soda improperly
    (lid not firmly attached). My point was regardless of what/how was
    served by the attendant in the drive thru, that's an inherently
    dangerous situation when you choose to eat inside a vehicle, as Stella
    did.

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