Squat form and technique

[email hidden] wrote in news:000i111vg5bqntusgshifi5vg6ns0a8jde@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
and concentric phases of squatting.

JV Askem: http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/BadGood.htm

Quoted message said:

(If you have a favorite
description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)

I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?

I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
the ascent?

Sounds to me like he's shooting his hips, which is a Bad Thing--pushing your
hips up without really moving the bar and then hoisting the bar up with your
back muscles.

But at 454 don't tell him I said so.

Hugh

--
Run like hell and let the clowns deal with the bull.

Hugh Beyer said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:000i111vg5bqntusgshifi5vg6ns0a8jde@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
and concentric phases of squatting.

JV Askem: http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/BadGood.htm

Quoted message said:

(If you have a favorite
description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)

I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?

I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
the ascent?

Sounds to me like he's shooting his hips, which is a Bad Thing--pushing your
hips up without really moving the bar and then hoisting the bar up with your
back muscles.

But at 454 don't tell him I said so.

Hugh

Thanks for Askem's page.

I'm looking for more details, especially in regard to the concentric
phase.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)

I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?

I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
the ascent?

There is no one best way. Simmons is referring to a powerlifting squat -
trying to just break parallel in a federation that has lifter friendly
interpretation of what parallel is. While wearing very heavy supportive
gear and wraps.

His point is to try and prevent the hips from shooting up in the
wide-stance squat. Tommy Kono talks about 'pushing the floor away' while
squatting in his book 'Weightlifting - Olympic Style'. Why? To prevent the
hips from shooting.

Of course he also suggest a narrower stance and allowing the knees to come
forward because the point of his squat is to adaptations suitable to
olympic lifting.

For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
lifters twist.

Hobbes said:

Quoted message said:

What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)
[snip]

[snip]

For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
lifters twist.

Here are the links to Krista's squat stuff

http://www.stumptuous.com/badsquat.html
http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat.html

All this and much more can be found at her general lifting site:
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html

Selene

--

There's nothing scarier than a soybean wielding a chainsaw. -- Lucas Buck

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:01:38 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)

I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?

I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
the ascent?

There is no one best way. Simmons is referring to a powerlifting squat -
trying to just break parallel in a federation that has lifter friendly
interpretation of what parallel is. While wearing very heavy supportive
gear and wraps.

His point is to try and prevent the hips from shooting up in the
wide-stance squat. Tommy Kono talks about 'pushing the floor away' while
squatting in his book 'Weightlifting - Olympic Style'. Why? To prevent the
hips from shooting.

Of course he also suggest a narrower stance and allowing the knees to come
forward because the point of his squat is to adaptations suitable to
olympic lifting.

For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
lifters twist.

At http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat3.html Krista writes:

Step 5. Push through the heels to ascend from the squat. Think about
driving your heels right into the floor. . . The ascent from the squat
should be a smooth "unfolding" of the body. The chest comes up first,
followed by the hips. Do not allow the hips to "pop up" first.

Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm

1. How exactly do you push against the bar first?

2. What is the exact sequence of movements involved in the ascent?

3. If someone is "shooting from the hips" and I am standing behind
or to the side of this person, what should I be observing?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:01:38 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)

I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?

I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
the ascent?

There is no one best way. Simmons is referring to a powerlifting squat -
trying to just break parallel in a federation that has lifter friendly
interpretation of what parallel is. While wearing very heavy supportive
gear and wraps.

His point is to try and prevent the hips from shooting up in the
wide-stance squat. Tommy Kono talks about 'pushing the floor away' while
squatting in his book 'Weightlifting - Olympic Style'. Why? To prevent the
hips from shooting.

Of course he also suggest a narrower stance and allowing the knees to come
forward because the point of his squat is to adaptations suitable to
olympic lifting.

For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
lifters twist.

At http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat3.html Krista writes:

Step 5. Push through the heels to ascend from the squat. Think about
driving your heels right into the floor. . . The ascent from the squat
should be a smooth "unfolding" of the body. The chest comes up first,
followed by the hips. Do not allow the hips to "pop up" first.

Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm

1. How exactly do you push against the bar first?

He advises to push backwards against the bar AIR. Same idea. Keep the hips
from shooting and the knees from going forward. It is really more of a
proprioceptive thing. If the bar is felt to be going back the hips come
forward instead of up.

Quoted message said:

2. What is the exact sequence of movements involved in the ascent?

Depends on the type of squat. In Simmons wide stance squat I'd
characterize it as push the knees out and the bar back and drive the hips
into the wedges.

In an olympic squat it is more don't change the angle of the back - keep
it upright until the last moment.

Quoted message said:

3. If someone is "shooting from the hips" and I am standing behind
or to the side of this person, what should I be observing?

Looks like a bastidized good morning. Knees straighten, hips go up and
then the person uses lower back to finish the lift.

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:01:38 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] wrote:

> What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
> course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
> and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
> description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
> care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)
>
> I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
> example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
> than pushing with the feet first.
> http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
> How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?
>
> I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
> wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
> his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
> this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
> involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
> the ascent?

There is no one best way. Simmons is referring to a powerlifting squat -
trying to just break parallel in a federation that has lifter friendly
interpretation of what parallel is. While wearing very heavy supportive
gear and wraps.

His point is to try and prevent the hips from shooting up in the
wide-stance squat. Tommy Kono talks about 'pushing the floor away' while
squatting in his book 'Weightlifting - Olympic Style'. Why? To prevent the
hips from shooting.

Of course he also suggest a narrower stance and allowing the knees to come
forward because the point of his squat is to adaptations suitable to
olympic lifting.

For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
lifters twist.

At http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat3.html Krista writes:

Step 5. Push through the heels to ascend from the squat. Think about
driving your heels right into the floor. . . The ascent from the squat
should be a smooth "unfolding" of the body. The chest comes up first,
followed by the hips. Do not allow the hips to "pop up" first.

Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm

1. How exactly do you push against the bar first?

He advises to push backwards against the bar AIR. Same idea. Keep the hips
from shooting and the knees from going forward. It is really more of a
proprioceptive thing. If the bar is felt to be going back the hips come
forward instead of up.

"pushing against the bar" also helps to keep the chest up. I use the
cue: "Look straight a head, chest up, push against the bar, and drive
up from the floor.' The verbal cue seems to help new folks maintain an
upright form and aid in the synchrony of unfolding at the multiple
joints involved. I even use on myself sometimes when I lose focus or
start fatiguing (I do multiple sets of 5-6).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What is the exact sequence of movements involved in the ascent?

Depends on the type of squat. In Simmons wide stance squat I'd
characterize it as push the knees out and the bar back and drive the hips
into the wedges.

In an olympic squat it is more don't change the angle of the back - keep
it upright until the last moment.

And, as a OL squat convert (both front and back), it's so much more
fluid for me.

What would be really cool is for someone to do a computerized 3-D
stick man doing a squat depicting the ascent and descent in slow
motion. and can be rotated (like the molecules in Chime).

That would rock.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. If someone is "shooting from the hips" and I am standing behind
or to the side of this person, what should I be observing?

Looks like a bastidized good morning. Knees straighten, hips go up and
then the person uses lower back to finish the lift.

I can think of several people that do this, although they vehemently
deny it. They can't see themselves and don't trust an observer's
critique. That's where video cams are helpful.

------------------------------
Reality is an illusion created by an intelligence deficiency.

elzinator said:

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:01:38 -0600, [email hidden]
(Hobbes) wrote:

>In article <[email hidden]>,
>[email hidden] wrote:
>
>> What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
>> course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
>> and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
>> description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
>> care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)
>>
>> I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
>> example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
>> than pushing with the feet first.
>> http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
>> How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?
>>
>> I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
>> wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
>> his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
>> this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
>> involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
>> the ascent?
>
>There is no one best way. Simmons is referring to a powerlifting squat -
>trying to just break parallel in a federation that has lifter friendly
>interpretation of what parallel is. While wearing very heavy supportive
>gear and wraps.
>
>His point is to try and prevent the hips from shooting up in the
>wide-stance squat. Tommy Kono talks about 'pushing the floor away' while
>squatting in his book 'Weightlifting - Olympic Style'. Why? To prevent the
>hips from shooting.
>
>Of course he also suggest a narrower stance and allowing the knees to come
>forward because the point of his squat is to adaptations suitable to
>olympic lifting.
>
>For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
>what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
>purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
>lifters twist.

At http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat3.html Krista writes:

Step 5. Push through the heels to ascend from the squat. Think about
driving your heels right into the floor. . . The ascent from the squat
should be a smooth "unfolding" of the body. The chest comes up first,
followed by the hips. Do not allow the hips to "pop up" first.

Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm

1. How exactly do you push against the bar first?

He advises to push backwards against the bar AIR. Same idea. Keep the hips
from shooting and the knees from going forward. It is really more of a
proprioceptive thing. If the bar is felt to be going back the hips come
forward instead of up.

"pushing against the bar" also helps to keep the chest up. I use the
cue: "Look straight a head, chest up, push against the bar, and drive
up from the floor.' The verbal cue seems to help new folks maintain an
upright form and aid in the synchrony of unfolding at the multiple
joints involved. I even use on myself sometimes when I lose focus or
start fatiguing (I do multiple sets of 5-6).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What is the exact sequence of movements involved in the ascent?

Depends on the type of squat. In Simmons wide stance squat I'd
characterize it as push the knees out and the bar back and drive the hips
into the wedges.

In an olympic squat it is more don't change the angle of the back - keep
it upright until the last moment.

And, as a OL squat convert (both front and back), it's so much more
fluid for me.

What would be really cool is for someone to do a computerized 3-D
stick man doing a squat depicting the ascent and descent in slow
motion. and can be rotated (like the molecules in Chime).

That would rock.

Please post this if you find it!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. If someone is "shooting from the hips" and I am standing behind
or to the side of this person, what should I be observing?

Looks like a bastidized good morning. Knees straighten, hips go up and
then the person uses lower back to finish the lift.

I can think of several people that do this, although they vehemently
deny it. They can't see themselves and don't trust an observer's
critique. That's where video cams are helpful.

Sounds like a great feedback tool for a personal trainer

Quoted message said:

------------------------------
Reality is an illusion created by an intelligence deficiency.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:41:50 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:01:38 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] wrote:

> What is the best url you've found in terms of a _detailed_ (and, of
> course, accurate) description of form and technique in the eccentric
> and concentric phases of squatting. (If you have a favorite
> description of these movements but it's not on the Net and and you
> care to scan or type it, that would be great too.)
>
> I suppose I'm particularly confused by the concentric phase. For
> example, Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
> than pushing with the feet first.
> http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
> How exactly do you push against the bar first after breaking parallel?
>
> I saw a guy squatting 454 at my gym last night. I was behind him and
> wasn't sure what I was observing. It almost seemed llike he pushed
> his butt slightly back and up while coming out of the hole. I suppose
> this meant he was increasing his arch. If so, is that part of what's
> involved in leading with one's head and bar during the initial part of
> the ascent?

There is no one best way. Simmons is referring to a powerlifting squat -
trying to just break parallel in a federation that has lifter friendly
interpretation of what parallel is. While wearing very heavy supportive
gear and wraps.

His point is to try and prevent the hips from shooting up in the
wide-stance squat. Tommy Kono talks about 'pushing the floor away' while
squatting in his book 'Weightlifting - Olympic Style'. Why? To prevent the
hips from shooting.

Of course he also suggest a narrower stance and allowing the knees to come
forward because the point of his squat is to adaptations suitable to
olympic lifting.

For the average person probably the best way to squat is somewhere between
what the powerlifters do and what the olympic lifters do. Krista's site is
purty good for how to squat this way, although she does have an olympic
lifters twist.

At http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat3.html Krista writes:

Step 5. Push through the heels to ascend from the squat. Think about
driving your heels right into the floor. . . The ascent from the squat
should be a smooth "unfolding" of the body. The chest comes up first,
followed by the hips. Do not allow the hips to "pop up" first.

Louis Simmons advises pushing against the bar first rather
than pushing with the feet first.
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm

1. How exactly do you push against the bar first?

He advises to push backwards against the bar AIR. Same idea. Keep the hips
from shooting and the knees from going forward. It is really more of a
proprioceptive thing. If the bar is felt to be going back the hips come
forward instead of up.

What's AIR?

I'm terrible at following verbal dance instructions. "Push back"
means a combination of chest out and scapular retraction?

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls32.htm
"To ensure correct bar placement, raise the chest and pull the
shoulder blades together, to place the bar back as far as possible"

If one is "pushing back" against the bar, the pressure against the bar
helps one to avoid feeling that the bar is going back? Because one's
hips would tend to go forward if one feels that the bar is going back?

And when one is pushing against the bar with the chest going up, the
head is going up as well?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What is the exact sequence of movements involved in the ascent?

Depends on the type of squat. In Simmons wide stance squat I'd
characterize it as push the knees out and the bar back and drive the hips
into the wedges.

"Pushing the knees out" (not forward) is accomplished by pushing the
glutes back ("into the wedges"😉?

Quoted message said:

In an olympic squat it is more don't change the angle of the back - keep
it upright until the last moment.

Quoted message said:

3. If someone is "shooting from the hips" and I am standing behind
or to the side of this person, what should I be observing?

Looks like a bastidized good morning. Knees straighten, hips go up and
then the person uses lower back to finish the lift.

To return to the guy squatting 454, it doesn't sound like a
bastardized "Good Morning." It seems to me that after reaching
bottom, he pushed his glutes back. Then he "pushed against the bar"
which caused his butt and hips to move up slightly while ascending. I
doubt he was leaning forward excessively - probably just enought to
keep the bar over his center of gravity.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He advises to push backwards against the bar AIR. Same idea. Keep the hips
from shooting and the knees from going forward. It is really more of a
proprioceptive thing. If the bar is felt to be going back the hips come
forward instead of up.

What's AIR?

What you breathe, as I recall:-))

Paul

lol!