Spokes: Cutting And Threading?

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

Is cutting/threading spokes by hand realistic?

I think I've answered my own question.

Spokes are available for a lot less than the local Performance
shop's $2.00/per... as in about $25 for 75 with nipples
included: http://tinyurl.com/234o2o

And threading is clearly not trivial - requiring more than just a
hexagonal die. To wit: http://tinyurl.com/29z8vn
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) said:

I'm about to rebuild a front wheel on a larger hub.

Got 32 perfectly good - but too-long - spokes.

Priced spokes at the LBS.   $2.00 a pop.

Sheesh!   Plenty complete *wheels* on the shelf for less than
$76.

So, I'm thinking maybe buying whatever it takes to thread a spoke
might be cheaper - and I'll have a new tool when it's over.

Anybody been here?

One LBS has a machine that performs the whole operation:
cuts/threads.   So they only have to stock one size spoke.

But I'm guessing that's a far cry from doing it "by hand"....

I've got a vice and a carbide cutoff wheel.

Is cutting/threading spokes by hand realistic?
--
PeteCresswell

with the right tool, sure. but the tool can cost ya... why not support
your lbs and have them do it for you ?

(PeteCresswell) said:

I'm about to rebuild a front wheel on a larger hub.
Got 32 perfectly good - but too-long - spokes.
Priced spokes at the LBS. $2.00 a pop.
Sheesh! Plenty complete *wheels* on the shelf for less than
$76.
So, I'm thinking maybe buying whatever it takes to thread a spoke
might be cheaper - and I'll have a new tool when it's over.
Anybody been here?
One LBS has a machine that performs the whole operation:
cuts/threads. So they only have to stock one size spoke.
But I'm guessing that's a far cry from doing it "by hand"....
I've got a vice and a carbide cutoff wheel.
Is cutting/threading spokes by hand realistic?

Yes, $76 per wheel is high, more like $20 to $30 usually

Spoke threads are not cut, they are formed/rolled.

The small Cyclo tool with 3-sided rolling head is a PIA to use, albeit
cheap. Real Phil machines and their competitors price at well beyond a
Record bike, so maybe pay the local guy to trim them for you?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

with the right tool, sure. but the tool can cost ya... why not support
your lbs and have them do it for you ?

Haven't priced them at the shop that makes them to order - but I
can't imagine them being much less than $2.00/spoke... and that
seems needlessly-masochistic when I can order online, pay more
like $30 total, and avoid a trip to the shop.

Maybe it's the Bushie bucks working on my mind... but close to
$100 just for spokes and nipples to build a wheel seems kind of
ridiculous.
--
PeteCresswell

Quoted message said:

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

with the right tool, sure. but the tool can cost ya... why not support
your lbs and have them do it for you ?

(PeteCresswell) said:

Haven't priced them at the shop that makes them to order - but I
can't imagine them being much less than $2.00/spoke... and that
seems needlessly-masochistic when I can order online, pay more
like $30 total, and avoid a trip to the shop.

Maybe it's the Bushie bucks working on my mind... but close to
$100 just for spokes and nipples to build a wheel seems kind of
ridiculous.

That is indeed ridiculous. Complete wheels are less.

$2 per makes sense for 1 or 2 spokes as it costs more to calculate and
retrieve one spoke than the spoke. For a set, the going rate for premium
bright stainless double butted is more like $20 to $30 with nipples.

c.f. a shot of Scots' Whisky is $6 but the whole bottle is $40.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

(PeteCresswell) said:

Priced spokes at the LBS. $2.00 a pop.

Try a different LBS? Mine has sold me new spokes for $.50 each.
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org

Pete asks

Quoted message said:

So, I'm thinking maybe buying whatever it takes to thread
a spoke might be cheaper - and I'll have a
new tool when it's over.
Anybody been here?

About a year ago I contacted Bike Tools Etc with the same idea
regarding thread rolling dies and such. In total, about $140 and like
you, I thought "I'll have a tool!"
However, the staff at Bike Tools Etc did not recommend I pursue this
endeavour. The equipment they offer is meant to do the occasional
really odd ball spoke. They assured me that by the time I had rolled 72
threads the $90 die would be junk.
If your LBS has the tooling, I'd let them do it.

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

Per Ben Pfaff:

Quoted message said:

Try a different LBS? Mine has sold me new spokes for $.50 each.

Actually, I don't know why I even go in that place anymore.

Used tb my favorite place to buy stuff, but the soul went out of
it when an LBS about 40 miles away offered the manager 10 grand
more per year and a shorter trip to work.... and he accepted.
--
PeteCresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) One LBS has a machine that
performs the whole operation:

Quoted message said:

cuts/threads.(clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
See whether they would do your spokes for a decent price.

Pete Cresswell said:

Quoted message said:

Is cutting/threading spokes by hand realistic?

Quoted message said:

I think I've answered my own question.

Quoted message said:

Spokes are available for a lot less than the local Performance
shop's $2.00/per... as in about $25 for 75 with nipples included:
http://tinyurl.com/234o2o

Quoted message said:

And threading is clearly not trivial - requiring more than just a
hexagonal die. To wit: http://tinyurl.com/29z8vn

For a bicycle shop, threading is often the preferred way of making a
spoke for repairing a wheel with a s[poke length that isn't in stock.
That is far leas troublesome and expensive than stocking all possible
lengths. When a person comes to the shop with a broken spoke, there
is no time to mail order the right length if it isn't on hand.

No. One broken spoke does not mean the rest of them are about to
break.

Jobst Brandt

Michael Baldwin said:

Pete asks

Quoted message said:

So, I'm thinking maybe buying whatever it takes to thread
a spoke might be cheaper - and I'll have a
new tool when it's over.
Anybody been here?

About a year ago I contacted Bike Tools Etc with the same idea
regarding thread rolling dies and such. In total, about $140 and like
you, I thought "I'll have a tool!"
However, the staff at Bike Tools Etc did not recommend I pursue this
endeavour. The equipment they offer is meant to do the occasional
really odd ball spoke. They assured me that by the time I had rolled 72
threads the $90 die would be junk.

Maybe not.

I'm riding a pair of wheels with spokes I cut and rolled with the cyclco
tool. It was not new to start with. The threads were fine, and I fully
expect to do another set soon. When the rolling heads get too bad I'll
make some more.

These were straight guage galvanised spokes as butted stainless ones did
not come short enough and I wasn't about to pay big $ *and* wait if I could
not get butted ones. That may make a difference.

Quoted message said:

Replying to Pete, Mike wrote
However, the staff at Bike Tools Etc did not recommend
I pursue this endeavour. The equipment they offer is meant
to do the occasional really odd ball spoke. They assured
me that by the time I had rolled 72 threads
the $90 die would be junk.

Then somebody else wrote

Maybe not.
I'm riding a pair of wheels with spokes I cut
and rolled with the cyclco tool. It was not new
to start with. The threads were fine, and I fully
expect to do another set soon. When the rolling heads
get too bad I'll make some more.
These were straight guage galvanised spokes as butted stainless ones
did not come short enough and I wasn't about to
pay big $ *and* wait if I could not get
butted ones. That may make a difference.

...referenced tool/s from BTE could do 100's of _zinc_ plated
spokes...my project was to be with SS...

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:26:06 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>
wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

$2 per makes sense for 1 or 2 spokes as it costs more to calculate and
retrieve one spoke than the spoke. For a set, the going rate for premium
bright stainless double butted is more like $20 to $30 with nipples.

When I buy single spokes they're $1.50 @ for butted, a dollar for
straight gauge stainless, in stocked lengths. When I buy enough to do
a rim I'd bought at the same shop, they're $.75 @ for straight gauge
or a dollar for butted.

My second favourite shop just got a new Morizumi machine. I was
amazed at how little time it took him to cut and thread forty spokes.
He cut them to the lengths I specified for $.60 @. I bought the rim
there too. Since I'd specified the lengths the onus was on me and I'd
have had to eat them if they were the wrong length. I don't know that
Ed would have charged me more if he'd calculated the lengths. But I
would have expected him to eat them if they were wrong.
--
zk

(PeteCresswell) said:

I'm about to rebuild a front wheel on a larger hub.

Got 32 perfectly good - but too-long - spokes.

How 'bout simply going up one cross? Might fit...
Or if it doesn't straight off you can tinker with changing cross and nipple length and maybe find a decent combo there? It's much nicer to build with new nipples anyhow.

(PeteCresswell) said:

I'm about to rebuild a front wheel on a larger hub.

Got 32 perfectly good - but too-long - spokes.

Priced spokes at the LBS. $2.00 a pop.

Sheesh! Plenty complete *wheels* on the shelf for less than
$76.

So, I'm thinking maybe buying whatever it takes to thread a spoke
might be cheaper - and I'll have a new tool when it's over.

Anybody been here?

One LBS has a machine that performs the whole operation:
cuts/threads. So they only have to stock one size spoke.

But I'm guessing that's a far cry from doing it "by hand"....

I've got a vice and a carbide cutoff wheel.

Is cutting/threading spokes by hand realistic?
--
PeteCresswell

cgi.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

$40 for 72 each 14/15 DB Spokes Sapim Race brand with Sapim Polyax nipples USPS Priority Mailed to you in the USA. See if the lengths in the listing match your requirements.

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

Is cutting/threading spokes by hand realistic?

I think I've answered my own question.

Spokes are available for a lot less than the local Performance
shop's $2.00/per... as in about $25 for 75 with nipples
included:http://tinyurl.com/234o2o

And threading is clearly not trivial - requiring more than just a
hexagonal die. To wit:http://tinyurl.com/29z8vn
--
PeteCresswell

Pete, I have one of these little 'hand rolling' machines and it has
worked perfectly for me. Its not like I thread spoke sets all day
long but I have rolled at least 8 sets of spokes with mine and I find
the best lube to use with it is ' Moly-D-oil '.

Your learning curve will vary from person to person but, if you're
interested in what you're doing, it shouldn't take you long till you
can make spokes that will work perfectly for you.

Lewis.

*****

A Muzi said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

I'm about to rebuild a front wheel on a larger hub.
Got 32 perfectly good - but too-long - spokes.
Priced spokes at the LBS. $2.00 a pop.
Sheesh! Plenty complete *wheels* on the shelf for less than
$76.

<snip rest>
For comparison, the LBS I chose here in the Santa Cruz, CA area,
charges $0.75 per spoke. Up from $0.50 last year.

That's for spokes picked up this weekend.

That quote is for pre-packaged DT straight-guaged spokes. They had a
Phil Wood spoke machine but said that they charge more for
those...labour, ya' know.
(I did not happen to ask how much....I'll guess $1.00)

Pureheart

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(PeteCresswell) said:

I'm about to rebuild a front wheel on a larger hub.
Got 32 perfectly good - but too-long - spokes.
Priced spokes at the LBS. $2.00 a pop.
Sheesh! Plenty complete *wheels* on the shelf for less than
$76.

<snip rest>

Quoted message said:

For comparison, the LBS I chose here in the Santa Cruz, CA area,
charges $0.75 per spoke. Up from $0.50 last year.

That's for spokes picked up this weekend.

That quote is for pre-packaged DT straight-guaged spokes. They had a
Phil Wood spoke machine but said that they charge more for
those...labour, ya' know.
(I did not happen to ask how much....I'll guess $1.00)

While not outrageous, you can usually get premium butted spokes at that
price. Why ever build with plain gauge spokes anyway? At any price ???
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

(PeteCresswell) said:

[...]
I've got a vice and a carbide cutoff wheel.[...]

^^^^
Please, that is too much information!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful