Spoke Gouging

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 11:17:44 -0600, Tom Sherman

may have said:

Quoted message said:

I can see charging a couple bucks for a SINGLE spoke due to the labor
involved in identifying, retrieving and selling it. But there should
be a VERY steep quantity discount as the quantity goes up... something
like:

Qty Price
1 $2.00
2 $1.50
3 $1.25
4 $1.10
5-10 $1.00
11-25 $0.85
26+ $0.75

... or something similar. The cost of the item is only one variable
in determining what the retail cost should be. Labor for selling one
or fifty spokes is pretty much the same. Other factors like carrying
costs and stocking charges pretty much follow quantity in a linear
fashion.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

So if one orders 26+ Habanero frames, the price will drop to $260.63/each?

Hey, of you're paying cash, and you want them all identical, packed in
bulk, I'd bet that Mark would make you a deal. Probably not as steep
of a discount as that, but I suspect that he'd have a consideration of
some sort available.

Or maybe not; the markup in big-ticket stuff is usually a smaller
percentage than in piddly bits.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out
to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Dear Wasatch,

Having browsed the other interesting replies to your lament,
I did a little searching in the archives.

Curiously, I found no complaints from customers that local
bike shops ever charge too little.

My email, however, reveals the secret sorrow of bicycle shop
dealers:

"The chain ring is only $54.95 plus tax, but they hand me a
century note and walk out--what do they think I'm running
here, the Big Dig?"
--Sheldon B., West Newton, MA

"Ya'd think kids in a college town could learn to add. Every
year, tearful parents ask me where Johnny's CU tuition money
went. I show 'em the bill for a $3k bicycle, the copy of the
$5k check that the kid endorsed to me, and ask 'em what was
I gonna do? I tried to refund the extra two grand, but their
boy just kept sending the money back to me."
--Peter C., Boulder, CO

"Christmas--that's when it gets really ugly. WalMart's low
prices drive them away, so guess who takes the hit? Burglars
right out of Hiaasen novels will break into my shop and
leave a twenty-dollar bill for an inner tube."
--John D., Miami, FL

"The way they throw money at me, you'd think this was a
charity, not a bike shop. They have no idea how much extra
paperwork is involved when they overpay."
--Mark H., Lantana, FL

"You know who I hate? Those guys who say it's burning a hole
in their pockets. And don't get me started on the ones who
want to make out checks with lots of zeroes just to make it
easier to balance their checkbooks."
--Mike J., Redwood City, CA

"What's the point? We pay for the newspaper ad for our 20%
off sale. We spend an hour after closing just to change
price tags. And then they come in the next morning and
insist on paying full price--they won't take no for an
answer! One woman who worked here quit because a guy got so
nasty when she tried to give him his change back from a
fifty."
--Andrew M., Madison, WI

***

Carl Fogel

Werehatrack said:

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 11:17:44 -0600, Tom Sherman

may have said:

Quoted message said:

I can see charging a couple bucks for a SINGLE spoke due to the labor
involved in identifying, retrieving and selling it. But there should
be a VERY steep quantity discount as the quantity goes up... something
like:

Qty Price
1 $2.00
2 $1.50
3 $1.25
4 $1.10
5-10 $1.00
11-25 $0.85
26+ $0.75

... or something similar. The cost of the item is only one variable
in determining what the retail cost should be. Labor for selling one
or fifty spokes is pretty much the same. Other factors like carrying
costs and stocking charges pretty much follow quantity in a linear
fashion.

So if one orders 26+ Habanero frames, the price will drop to $260.63/each?

Hey, of you're paying cash, and you want them all identical, packed in
bulk, I'd bet that Mark would make you a deal. Probably not as steep
of a discount as that, but I suspect that he'd have a consideration of
some sort available.

Or maybe not; the markup in big-ticket stuff is usually a smaller
percentage than in piddly bits.

Exactly. While there is almost no additional labor associated with
the second through 26th spoke, there's still quite a bit involved in
getting the frames prep'd, packed and shipped. That said, heck yes
I'll cut you a pretty significant discount for 26 frames. ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 first ti frame

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total came out to
be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging $1.75 A SPOKE! I
turned, walked out the door and went to REI where they charged a more
reasonable $0.65 a spoke. (Same spokes DT DB 14/15) I try to support my
LBS, but sometimes they make it impossible.

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

It could reasonably be a simple error. Various brands of spokes are
shipped/billed in each, 10, 20, 50, 72, 100, 500 and 1000 pieces from
various sources. With or without nipples. It can be daunting sometimes
to know what you actually paid per spoke.

Anyone in a small business can tell you horror stories at the interface of
employees and arithmetic - a deadly combination with a non-printing
calculator.

There really are $2 each spokes (Sapim XRay). That probably

If the OP's spokes were black, then $1.25/spoke isn't out of the question.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

If the OP's spokes were black, then $1.25/spoke isn't out of the question.

Nope reg. silver ones -- same as seen here:

http://tinyurl.com/3voyg

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single spokes
for a high price.

The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't know
what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock to
pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a butted
spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small amount of
margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's ok but for a
infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total
came out to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging
$1.75 A SPOKE!
...
Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Were they 14-gouge or 15-gouge spokes?

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m said:

Wasatch5k said:

Went to the bike shop to buy 64 DT DB 14/15 spokes. The total
came out to be $119.39 (including tax). WTF? They were charging
$1.75 A SPOKE!
...
Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Were they 14-gouge or 15-gouge spokes?

Hopefully zero-gouge...
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Paul Kopit said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single spokes
for a high price.

The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't know
what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock to
pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a butted
spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small amount of
margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's ok but for a
infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being retail.
For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to gain a repeat
customer, not give him a reason to never come back, and tell his friends
to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide, they don't go outta biz cuz
they don't sell stuff.

A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter if
it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

"Qui Si Parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:1110638320.e991309a1a3810c93d1e87a701db8b12@teranews...

Quoted message said:

Bike shops commit suicide, they don't go outta
biz cuz they don't sell stuff. A 'good' shop
takes the time to sell something. It doesn't
matter if it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

Careful. I tried to make the same point here a while back,
and some knuckleheads put me down because I wouldn't buy an
entire wheel re-build rather than the couple of spokes I
needed. Some people apparently think the customer is always
wrong.

Peter Chisholm said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single
spokes for a high price.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently doesn't know
what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock
to pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a
butted spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small
amount of margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's
OK but for a infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Quoted message said:

Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being
retail. For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to
gain a repeat customer, not give him a reason to never come back,
and tell his friends to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide,
they don't go outta biz cuz they don't sell stuff.

Quoted message said:

A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter if
it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

Hear hear! This is a customer relations consideration, not minutia,
or seconds for that matter. The arguments against are based on a
false model that every minute in the store is spoken for, and that
there is no idle time, time without which a human doesn't function.
The way I read some of these responses, it sounds like there is never
a break and no banter between employees, somewhat like slaves in a
galley at the oars.

All this short term thinking is damaging to business and the trusting
atmosphere for the customer. It's the same in life in general. For a
livable world we must each pursue our LONG TERM selfish interests...
which of course looks out for our fellow man because we rely on him.
What you pass out comes back in the long run.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

yup! when the car payment is due...
deal with the owner
or work on a polish acting method for stunned surprise.
spokes cost $10 for 20 14 straights DT MO
but buy LBS too
get a handful each visit
as marconi once said-"wheels are not round"
ura gonna need them!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single spokes
for a high price.
The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't know
what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock to
pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a butted
spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small amount of
margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's ok but for a
infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being retail.
For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to gain a repeat
customer, not give him a reason to never come back, and tell his friends
to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide, they don't go outta biz cuz
they don't sell stuff.

A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter if
it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

I'm with Peter.

I've read and heard tales of 'bike shops' at which finding
the appropriate spoke length, then ordering a box of that
size, involves major trauma and a bad attitude toward the
customer.

My employees who build wheels all day know most common spoke
lengths by looking at the bike from across the room. Even
so, there's no met margin in a single spoke sale. It is
however a valuable and valued service to the customer. We
shouldn't whine about or begrudge the time spent on a spoke
sale --we still have a relationship with that customer.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wrote:
> Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single
spokes for a high price.
The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't know
what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock
to pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a
butted spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small
amount of margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's
ok but for a infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being
retail. For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to
gain a repeat customer, not give him a reason to never come back,
and tell his friends to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide,
they don't go outta biz cuz they don't sell stuff.

A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter if
it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

I'm with Peter.

I've read and heard tales of 'bike shops' at which finding
the appropriate spoke length, then ordering a box of that
size, involves major trauma and a bad attitude toward the
customer.

My employees who build wheels all day know most common spoke
lengths by looking at the bike from across the room. Even
so, there's no met margin in a single spoke sale. It is
however a valuable and valued service to the customer. We
shouldn't whine about or begrudge the time spent on a spoke
sale --we still have a relationship with that customer.

But that depends on the locale. With the transient nature of our college
campus here, we rarely have people ask for individual spokes on multiple
occasions, and those that return are people with which we usually already
have a good business relationship.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

>wrote:
>
>>Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit wrote:

>The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single
>spokes for a high price.
>The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't know
>what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
>the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock
>to pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a
>butted spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small
>amount of margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's
>ok but for a infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being
retail. For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to
gain a repeat customer, not give him a reason to never come back,
and tell his friends to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide,
they don't go outta biz cuz they don't sell stuff.

A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter if
it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

I'm with Peter.

I've read and heard tales of 'bike shops' at which finding
the appropriate spoke length, then ordering a box of that
size, involves major trauma and a bad attitude toward the
customer.

My employees who build wheels all day know most common spoke
lengths by looking at the bike from across the room. Even
so, there's no met margin in a single spoke sale. It is
however a valuable and valued service to the customer. We
shouldn't whine about or begrudge the time spent on a spoke
sale --we still have a relationship with that customer.

But that depends on the locale. With the transient nature of our college
campus here, we rarely have people ask for individual spokes on multiple
occasions, and those that return are people with which we usually already
have a good business relationship.

Well, A. Muzi's shop is only a few blocks from a major public
university. However, I suspect that many of his regular customers are
university faculty/staff.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Illinois)

I recently mentioned that I was going to go submit myself to spoke gouging at
the LBS.

Well they got me for $0.75 plus tax to cut and thread a spoke to match. I'm
gruntled. Truth is if they charged a buck and a half I wouldn't really squawk
either.

Ron

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Paul Kopit wrote:
>> The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single
>> spokes for a high price.
>> The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't know
>> what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a spoke on
>> the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You go to stock
>> to pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you sell a
>> butted spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time for a small
>> amount of margin. If you're dealing with a regular customer, it's
>> ok but for a infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being
> retail. For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to
> gain a repeat customer, not give him a reason to never come back,
> and tell his friends to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide,
> they don't go outta biz cuz they don't sell stuff.
> A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter if
> it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

I'm with Peter.
I've read and heard tales of 'bike shops' at which finding
the appropriate spoke length, then ordering a box of that
size, involves major trauma and a bad attitude toward the
customer.
My employees who build wheels all day know most common spoke
lengths by looking at the bike from across the room. Even
so, there's no met margin in a single spoke sale. It is
however a valuable and valued service to the customer. We
shouldn't whine about or begrudge the time spent on a spoke
sale --we still have a relationship with that customer.

Quoted message said:

Phil said:

But that depends on the locale. With the transient nature of our
college campus here, we rarely have people ask for individual spokes
on multiple occasions, and those that return are people with which we
usually already have a good business relationship.

Tom Sherman said:

Well, A. Muzi's shop is only a few blocks from a major public
university. However, I suspect that many of his regular customers are
university faculty/staff.

Yeah and that crowd's more likely to be here for a single
spoke. On credit[1].

To Phil's last comment - I didn't mean a close and ongoing
relationship , simply that there's _some_ relationship.

It's enough that somebody walked/rode through my door and
asked for something. How can you _not_ respond positively
to that??

[1] A direct quote last September "I already paid my student
fees. Do we have to pay extra to get our bikes fixed?"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0700, Wasatch5k
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>> Why would any shop gouge a customer like this?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Paul Kopit wrote:
>>> The LBS doesn't want to sell spokes. I can see selling single
>>> spokes for a high price.
>>> The customer comes in with needing a spoke. Frequently does't
>>> know what size or have the broken spoke. You have to measure a
>>> spoke on the wheel or calculate what the proper length is. You
>>> go to stock to pick out the spoke and then have to ring it up. If you
>>> sell a butted spoke for $.65, you've spent a lot of time
>>> for a small amount of margin. If you're dealing with a regular
>>> customer, it's ok but for a infrequent buyer, it's not worth it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Qui Si Parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> Balderdash. You spend the time to sell something. Cost of being
>> retail. For a $.60 spoke or $6000 bicycle. You are attempting to
>> gain a repeat customer, not give him a reason to never come back,
>> and tell his friends to never come in. Bike shops commit suicide,
>> they don't go outta biz cuz they don't sell stuff.
>> A 'good' shop takes the time to sell something. It doesn't matter
>> if it's a $.60 spoke or a $200 jersey.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi wrote:
> I'm with Peter.
> I've read and heard tales of 'bike shops' at which finding
> the appropriate spoke length, then ordering a box of that
> size, involves major trauma and a bad attitude toward the
> customer.
> My employees who build wheels all day know most common spoke
> lengths by looking at the bike from across the room. Even
> so, there's no met margin in a single spoke sale. It is
> however a valuable and valued service to the customer. We
> shouldn't whine about or begrudge the time spent on a spoke
> sale --we still have a relationship with that customer.

Quoted message said:

Phil said:

But that depends on the locale. With the transient nature of our
college campus here, we rarely have people ask for individual spokes
on multiple occasions, and those that return are people with which
we usually already have a good business relationship.

Tom Sherman said:

Well, A. Muzi's shop is only a few blocks from a major public
university. However, I suspect that many of his regular customers are
university faculty/staff.

Yeah and that crowd's more likely to be here for a single
spoke. On credit[1].

To Phil's last comment - I didn't mean a close and ongoing
relationship , simply that there's _some_ relationship.

It's enough that somebody walked/rode through my door and
asked for something. How can you _not_ respond positively
to that??

Oh, don't get me wrong... Customers coming in for something as simple as
this are exceptionally welcome. It's technically a non-intensive sale
(compared to a frozen seatpost removal, for example).

Quoted message said:

[1] A direct quote last September "I already paid my student
fees. Do we have to pay extra to get our bikes fixed?"

By a student to you??

The university has a free bike repair shack directly on campus, but it's for
real basic things... tighten this, fill air, etc.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training