Spinal Fusion - Pro, Cons, etc

No experience with the surgery, but I have had sciatica for
15+ years, first, left side only, now both. There are too
many options available for me to ever come near suggesting
someone go for surgery after not attempting them. I *can*
say that in treating my diabetic neuropathy, the sciatica is
no longer constant. Have you gone to a certified pain
clinic? I would have to be in worse uncontrollable pain than
I currently am, before I'd submit to the knife, not that I
am adverse to it, just know that it will be the last resort.

Not Bill Gates either, but am a *Bill*ie

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]... I'm
45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30 pounds
overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of physical therapy...I still suffer numbness in my
left leg down to the calf and pain on the right belt line
area making prolonged sitting uncomfortable. Sitting in
comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman makes
me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy alone is not enough. I have instability in
the spine due to disc degeneration and fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after surgery?
Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim? Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

Without a medical degree and a look at your MRI's etc. I
really can't say if you need surgery or not. What I can say
is that spinal surgery is usually a last resort or used to
prevent immediate, immanent damage that can be dangerous to
you. Even though you DDD fusion is usually an end stage
treatment. If I were in your position (and I am not) I
would seek alternative treatments. Once they do the fusion
there is no turning back and it can do more harm than good.
As far as activities that will be up to you and your
doctor. Some people come out of fusion better than new and
some come out as basket cases. Take your time and be sure.
You can not undue a fusion (at least not without horrible
results). Good luck.

sz "After ten long years they let him out of the
home...Excitable boy they all said" W. Zevon

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

It gets better after the first 20 years Bill. Not a lot,
but a bit🙂

Quoted message said:

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

"Needed"? In whose opinion? First of all, fusion isn't a
guarnatee of a pain free future, in fact it's not even a
guarante of a pain free anything. I've seen two guys who had
the procedure done who are both in wheelchairs. I'll stick
with the pain killers.

Quoted message said:

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

They may be able to do something, but backs (being backs)
aren't as accomodating to treatment as we'd like them to be.

Quoted message said:

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

option.

Quoted message said:

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

It's be worse. I know about not being able to straighten
legs at the knee when the thigh isn't in line with the
spine, but a recumbant bike puts more stress on your back
than a normal bike does. Get a motorbike instead:-)

Quoted message said:

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

If only you were, but unfortunately, you've got a back too
(a bad one:-) I've been where you are now and I was faced
with similar choices after I recovered from the initital
damage, but I was SERIOUSLY advised against it be no less
than three specialst spinal surgeons. The risks aren't as
low as the medico's will have you believe and the success
rate (where you're pain free) is NOWHERE near the level they
say either.

Beav

Here's another vote for finding out all your alternatives
before going for radical surgery. Some people do need
surgery, but the person to ask about it is NOT a surgeon.
Surgeons always recommend surgery.

My experience after blowing out a lumbar disc very severely
was that the surgeon told me I'd continue to be paralyzed
for the rest of my life and have no feeling in my leg if I
didn't have immediate surgery. I asked if he could guarantee
I wouldn't be in pain afterwards, since there's a history of
that in my family. He was very evasive. At the time I
figured numb was better than pain since I knew two people
whose lives had been ruined by ongoing pain following back
surgery. I also know that back surgeries are declared
successes at the 6 week exam. If the thing fails a year
later, it doesn't get listed as a failure. After a couple
failed back surgeries there is nothing they can do and then
you can be in permanent agony forever. This happened to a
friend of mine.

In my own case, two weeks after being told I'd never have
feeling and function in my leg, it came back. It hurt like
hell for a few months and I still have to baby it, but much
of the time if I don't do stupid stuff, I'm pain free. The
paralysis and weakness resolved completely. My friends who
have had the surgery are not in any better shape than I am
and several have had to have repeat surgeries. Also, the
people who have had the surgery who I know have permanent
leg numbness which makes walking difficult.

I will never again be able to do a lot of things I could do
before the injury, but I'm really glad I didn't rush into
having surgery. The stats are that if you have a sudden
injury, back surgery can be extremely effective. If you have
chronic degenerative back problems, the surgery is much less
effective and at the end of 5 years the outcome of those who
do and who don't have surgery are very similar.

The good thing about avoiding surgery is you don't form new
scar tissue. It is the scar tissue that causes the truly
horrible pain that can't be helped. -- Jenny - Low Carbing
for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.4.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips,
recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
geocities.comjenny the beanOpen ↗

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit alt-support-alt-support-Open ↗
diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

Have you tried a chropractor yet? I get Sciatica down my
left left leg to the knee. Attacks come on for no apparent
reason. Going to a chropractor has always helped. MRI
dagnoised a degenerated disc, surgeons wanted to operate.

I asked the surgeon what the odds were that I wouldl still
be in pain after the operation. My surgeon said there was
60% chance for improvement and 20% chance of making it
worse. He didn't get the job.

I now take Vioxx everyday, pain or not, haven't had a bad
attack stince taking it. Not sure yet if I am in "natural
remission" or if the Vioxx is reducing influmation and
preventing attacks.

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

Just a month ago I had what is called Kyphoplasty for a
fracture between lower lumbar discs. What they did was
inject a cement like material between the discs to repair
the fracture. Now my back seems OK but my right leg is very
painful when I walk. The doctor said if there was any pain,
steroid injections would alleviate them. So far I have had
two. I am a Diabetic T1 and on the pump under good control.
Any comments would be appreciated

Dear Not Bill, I just briefly glanced at some of the replies
you gotten so far, and the advice about checking all non
surgical options first is dead on. You gotta remember with
fusion they are actually removing some of the flexibility
built in to your back, which isn't going to help with
activity to drop the extra poundage. A couple of
suggestions. Since sciatica is a nerve acting up, consult a
neurologist or neurosurgeon. This is going to be a blanket
statement, so not true in every case by any means, but it
seems like orthopedic docs want to do the fusion, where as
the neuro docs will try to get around it. Like I said not
true in all cases, but the second opinion by a different
medical discipline, would be worth the time. Secondly, a
couple things for you to try. First get your wallet out of
your back pocket. We all do it and it can cause all kinds of
alignment problems, which can kick the sciatica up. Another
thing to do is almost the totally opposite idea but for
therapeutic reasons. Sit on a tennis ball. You know where to
put it, right in the hip/back pocket area, where the butt
hurts and the pain travels down the leg. Sounds crazy right?
It works. About 10 minutes or so of sitting on a tennis ball
(if your leg/foot starts going numb, it's been to long) is
kind of like accupressure and can really give you some
relief when its bad. For the record, I'm not nuts (although
that could be debated) but there are a couple others here
who have had their docs mention this method to them. Other
than that do all you can to avoid the fusion if possible.
Once they cut you open it's for good. Oh yea, I'm assuming
that you're seeing an orthopedic doc, doing epidurals. I've
had several blocks at pain clinics done specifically on the
sacro joint where the sciatic nerve runs. You may want to
consider attacking the spot directly instead of a total,
waist down cure. Just a suggestion(s)

Best of luck whatever you decide and feel better fast--og
Not Bill Gates <[email hidden]> wrote in
article <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and

pain

Quoted message said:

on the right belt line area making prolonged sitting
uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Does anyone have knowledge about IDD?

And yes, I've been to chiropracters. The relief is too
short in time.

spinecenterofchicago.comspinecenterofchicago.comOpen ↗

How many vertebrate are we talking?

I increasingly hear (VA/Stanford) that, particularly if it's
only one vertebrate, this is a procedure of last resort.

Anybody (and that may include your neuro) who tells you what
"you" can expect after the surgery I would have to say is at
best "misguided." There's a bell curve of results after
surgeries and I can only tell you what I expeienced. Until
my neuro got inside he didn't know how bad the damage was.

Grampa Gus

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

Sorry, meant to say more than one disk.

Grampa

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

"Not Bill Gates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm 45 years old, diabetic on glucophage and about 30
pounds overweight.

I've suffered sciatica for 6 months.

After opinions from 3 surgeons, 3 epidural steroids, and 7
weeks of

physical

Quoted message said:

therapy...I still suffer numbness in my left leg down to
the calf and pain on the right belt line area making
prolonged sitting uncomfortable.

Sitting

Quoted message said:

in comfy chair and trying to prop my legs on an ottoman
makes me grimace.

Yesterday I was told I might consider spinal fusion as
micordisectomy

alone

Quoted message said:

is not enough. I have instability in the spine due to disc
degeneration

and

Quoted message said:

fusion is needed.

I am considering travel to Twin Cities Spine Center in
Minnesota (I am in Chicago) Good Move? Bad Move?

What kind of activities will I be able to do after
surgery? Ride a bike? Golf? Tennis? Raquetball? Swim?
Snorkeling?

Now that the weather is turning nice, I have the itch to
bike ride. Conventional bike is out, and I'm not sure a
recumbent bike would be any better.

Any advice from those of you that have been through this,
I'm all ears.

Not Bill, I am one on the basket cases. I had 2 levels done,
I told the Dr. "If anything even looks like it might go bad
next year fix it now." Well I woke up to find that he did
L4-5 and L1-2.The disc in 3-4 is bulging and degenerating
but I did not fuse it because it's not bad enough. Well let
me tell you my numbness is gone. BUT MY PAIN level is higher
than it ever was. and it only gets worse. I have had
epidurals of all different types. Tons on meds. PT you name
it. Don't do it unless you no other choice. LIFE OR DEATH.
Just a thought Jr

"limey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beav

I'll second that. My husband had three cervical discs
fused about four years ago. The surgeon said, "The
surgery's a snap". My husband has

been

Quoted message said:

in acute pain ever since. Usually, the only slight relief
for him is to sleep on the floor in one certain position.
The surgeon tells him everything looks fine. Good for him
- he doesn't have to see my husband

in

Quoted message said:

constant pain. Would he undo the surgery? You bet. Once
done, you're stuck with it.

Indeed you are Dora, and as I once said to me doc when he
told me MY X-rays were fine, "I hope they live a long and
pain free life then, unlike me"

Knowing what I know now, I'd only consider spinal fusion as
a VERY last resort, but not while I can still move my legs.

--
Beav

Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at
ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

limey said:

"Beav" wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

"[censored] Jr" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

> Not Bill, I am one on the basket cases. I had 2
> levels done, I told the Dr. "If anything even looks
> like it might go bad next year fix it now." Well

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

woke
> up to find that he did L4-5 and L1-2.The disc in 3-4
> is bulging and degenerating but I did not fuse it
> because it's not bad enough. Well

let

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

me
> tell you my numbness is gone. BUT MY PAIN level is
> higher than it

ever

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was.
> and it only gets worse. I have had epidurals of all
> different types.

Tons

Quoted message said:

on
> meds. PT you name it. Don't do it unless you no other
> choice. LIFE OR
DEATH.
> Just a thought

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beav

I'll second that. My husband had three cervical discs
fused about four years ago. The surgeon said, "The
surgery's a snap". My husband has

been

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in acute pain ever since. Usually, the only slight relief
for him is to sleep on the floor in one certain position.
The surgeon tells him everything looks fine. Good for him
- he doesn't have to see my husband

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

constant pain. Would he undo the surgery? You bet. Once
done, you're stuck with it.

Dora

Yup and as I mentioned in an earlier post - consider what
they did before surgery was available. There is your clue.
Modern medicine does not always have the best answer nor
does it always take into consideration lessons already
learned.

How about one of the tools these surgeons use in this
procedure. "Ronguer". The name makes me cringe🙂

I "rongue" things with gigantic pliers and THEY do too!

Beav

Beav said:

"limey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beav

I'll second that. My husband had three cervical discs
fused about four years ago. The surgeon said, "The
surgery's a snap". My husband has been in acute pain
ever since. Usually, the only slight relief for him is
to sleep on the floor in one certain position. The
surgeon tells him everything looks fine. Good for him -
he doesn't have to see my husband in constant pain.
Would he undo the surgery? You bet. Once done, you're
stuck with it.

Indeed you are Dora, and as I once said to me doc when he
told me MY X-rays were fine, "I hope they live a long and
pain free life then, unlike me"

What a great come-back!

One specialist said to me that x-rays and MRIs are only
useful if they correlate with the symptoms. Otherwise you
might as well chuck them in the bin.

In other words, they can only tell you so much, and just
because they look fine, doesn't mean everything *is* fine!

Quoted message said:

Knowing what I know now, I'd only consider spinal
fusion as a VERY last resort, but not while I can still
move my legs.

They're getting better at not fusing those who it probably
won't help, but it's still such an inexact science 🙁

--
Katharine A dream is just a dream. A goal is a dream with a
plan and a deadline. (Harvey Mackay)

Try calling the operating room nurses at your local
hospital. They will probably suggest their favorite surgeons
(they know their technique and personality), although they
may hesitate to mention ONE favorite, which could cost them
their job. I wouldn't hesitate to suggest my favorite 2-3
surgeons for a particular procedure.

Jenny said:

Katharine,

The problem is that you, as a lay person, have no way of
knowing who is a truly good surgeon. Doctors refer to
friends and to the other doctors who practice out of their
hospital. These are not always the best doctors, and
sometimes the really best doctors are in distant urban
centers where your health insurance won't cover the
surgery.

I know a few doctors who have very painful post-surgery
backs, too, so that suggests that going to the guys who
are believed to be the best (which is what doctors usually
do) doesn't guarantee you anything.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight.
Type 2 diabetes, hba1c 5.4. Cut the carbs to respond to my
email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips,
recipes, strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
geocities.comjenny the beanOpen ↗

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar? Visit alt-support-alt-support-Open ↗
diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Katharine" <kathnews2@nospam,ta!optusnet.com.au> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Beav said:

"[censored] Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message new-
s:[email hidden]...

>
>
>Not Bill, I am one on the basket cases. I had 2 levels
>done, I told the Dr. "If anything even looks like it
>might go bad next year fix it now." Well I woke up to
>find that he did L4-5 and L1-2.The disc in 3-4 is
>bulging and degenerating but I did not fuse it because
>it's not bad enough. Well let me tell you my numbness is
>gone. BUT MY PAIN level is higher than it ever was. and
>it only gets worse. I have had epidurals of all
>different types. Tons on meds. PT you name it. Don't do
>it unless you no other choice. LIFE OR DEATH. Just a
>thought

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I disagree. Sure, it's a last resort, and a decision to
take very

seriously,

Quoted message said:

but you have to weight up quality of life, chance of it
working well,

access

Quoted message said:

to a good surgeon etc. It's very much something each
individual has to decide for themselves, taking into
account all of these things.

--
Katharine A vibration is a motion that cannot make up its
mind which way it wants

to

Quoted message said:

go.

Beav said:

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 3 May 2004 09:49:02 -0400, "limey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yup and as I mentioned in an earlier post - consider what
they did before surgery was available. There is your
clue. Modern medicine does not always have the best
answer nor does it always take into consideration lessons
already learned.

Quoted message said:

How about one of the tools these surgeons use in this
procedure. "Ronguer". The name makes me cringe🙂

EEEk.......

Quoted message said:

I "rongue" things with gigantic pliers and THEY do
too! Beav

I "t-ongue" things also - occasionally :-))

"Katharine" <kathnews2@nospam,ta!optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Beav said:

"limey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Beav

I'll second that. My husband had three cervical discs
fused about four years ago. The surgeon said, "The
surgery's a snap". My husband has been in acute pain
ever since. Usually, the only slight relief for him is
to sleep on the floor in one certain position. The
surgeon tells him everything looks fine. Good for him -
he doesn't have to see my husband in constant pain.
Would he undo the surgery? You bet. Once done, you're
stuck with it.

Indeed you are Dora, and as I once said to me doc when
he told me MY X-rays were fine, "I hope they live a long
and pain free life then, unlike me"

What a great come-back!

It comes from years of practising with the doctors
receptionists who seem to think it's their job to tell us we
don't need to see the doc when THEY look at their notes.:-)

Quoted message said:

One specialist said to me that x-rays and MRIs are only
useful if they correlate with the symptoms. Otherwise you
might as well chuck them in the bin.

And he's right. X-rays on your back are a total waste of an
X-ray and a dose of radiation better not taken because they
show NOTHING of any use unless it's broken bones or
touching bones (that shouldn't touch). MRI scans aren't
much more use either.

Quoted message said:

In other words, they can only tell you so much, and just
because they look fine, doesn't mean everything *is* fine!

I've been through the "There's nothing wrong" thing so
many times it's not funny anymore. If my back allows me to
walk for more than 50 yeards, one of my ankles steps in to
stop me, but "There's nothing wrong" with the ankle. (At
least according to the X-ray!!). If there was nothing
wrong with it, why won't it support my weight, and why
does it "slip" out of it's joint and why does it CRAAACK,
when I rotate it I wonder.

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Knowing what I know now, I'd only consider spinal
fusion as a VERY last resort, but not while I can still
move my legs.

They're getting better at not fusing those who it probably
won't help, but it's still such an inexact science 🙁

Thankfully, my "back man" told me that there was a risk
involved, and that there were no guarantee that it'd even
EASE the pain and that was YEARS ago. He actually
recommended that I DIDN'T have it done, and although I'd had
a fair amount of work done already, I applauded his honesty.
I still won't have it done either.

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--
Katharine A dream is just a dream. A goal is a dream with
a plan and a deadline.

And a wet dream is??? :-))) One you have when you're on a
Li-Lo :-)))

Beav

Beav, you are ill-informed. In surgery we have ronguers that
are only 3mm wide, as well as much larger. Neurosurgery
takes finesse...I would suggest a neurosurgeon as opposed to
an orthopedic surgeon, generally speaking.

Beav said:

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

limey said:

"Beav" wrote in message >

>"[censored] Jr" wrote in message

>>Not Bill, I am one on the basket cases. I had 2 levels
>>done, I told the Dr. "If anything even looks like it
>>might go bad next year fix it now." Well

I

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>woke
>
>>up to find that he did L4-5 and L1-2.The disc in 3-4 is
>>bulging and degenerating but I did not fuse it because
>>it's not bad enough. Well

let

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>me
>
>>tell you my numbness is gone. BUT MY PAIN level is
>>higher than it

ever

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>was.
>
>>and it only gets worse. I have had epidurals of all
>>different types.

Tons

>on
>
>>meds. PT you name it. Don't do it unless you no other
>>choice. LIFE OR
>
>DEATH.
>
>>Just a thought
>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>Beav

I'll second that. My husband had three cervical discs
fused about four years ago. The surgeon said, "The
surgery's a snap". My husband has

been

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in acute pain ever since. Usually, the only slight relief
for him is to sleep on the floor in one certain position.
The surgeon tells him everything looks fine. Good for him
- he doesn't have to see my husband

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

constant pain. Would he undo the surgery? You bet. Once
done, you're stuck with it.

Dora

Yup and as I mentioned in an earlier post - consider what
they did before surgery was available. There is your clue.
Modern medicine does not always have the best answer nor
does it always take into consideration lessons already
learned.

How about one of the tools these surgeons use in this
procedure. "Ronguer". The name makes me cringe🙂

I "rongue" things with gigantic pliers and THEY do too!

Beav

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Beav said:

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 3 May 2004 09:49:02 -0400, "limey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yup and as I mentioned in an earlier post - consider
what they did before surgery was available. There is
your clue. Modern medicine does not always have the
best answer nor does it always take into consideration
lessons already learned.

Quoted message said:

How about one of the tools these surgeons use in this
procedure.

"Ronguer".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The name makes me cringe🙂

EEEk.......

Quoted message said:

I "rongue" things with gigantic pliers and THEY do
too! Beav

I "t-ongue" things also - occasionally :-))

But that tool doesn't need two hands to keep it in
place :-))

Beav