speed, wheels, and inline skaters

I think you should check your speedometer, I have never seen a roller blader moving that fast.

"skott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens
and low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at 27
mph. How do they do that? Many people on this forum think bigger wheels are faster but these guys
are on micro wheels. I can't believe their bearings are that much better and they certainly are
not more aerodynamic in their body position. So, does the answer lie in hard wheels or is their
some incredible power in their leg stroke? I wonder how fast a fully suspended recumbent would be
if it rode on hard,ie.,noncompliant, wheels?. Perhaps that is why the more
psi the faster. Any thoughts?

Skott

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I think you should check your speedometer, I have never seen a roller blader moving that fast.

Then come on out and ride my Saturday AM ride. Part of our ride passes through Houston's Memorial
Park. There, you can find the "picnic loop" a 1.2 mile meandering loop. Mostly closed to vehicular
traffic on Saturday mornings, it is frequented by the speed types both on bike and blade. While
waiting for the others in my group to catch up, I do loops with the other cyclists. I try to
maintain 20-24 mph. The roller blade pace lines often match my speed. Last Fall there was a little
12-14 y.o. girl that would leave almost anyone (bike or blade) struggling to keep up. You can easily
identify the serious bladers. They are the ones in full tuck, arms behind the back They are about as
aero as a serious DF and without the extra 19 lb of metal.
--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

I believe that the record for 1 hr inline is about 23 miles/hr, and the 6 hour inline is about 17.5 miles/hour. I would guess that they can get up to sprint speeds of what most of us can do on our bikes. I've seen some pretty impressive speeds of skaters, but didn't have a radar gun handy. :p

I see skaters on the Van Fleet trail, in central florida, who easily cruise at 15.

One racer, when my friend and I passed him with malice, at about 20 ( Hey!! I didn't say WE were
faster!!) , accellerated, quickly caught us, skated alongside and said "Trying a breakaway, huh?"

Believe it, my friend.
--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer Clone
www.gate.net/~teblum

I believe it has more to do with "impedance matching" than wheel size. The concept is this. Your
body has speeds with which it is naturally able to move. You can't really extract power from biking
at a cadence above 150 rpm, for example, and you aren't going to extract much at 15 rpm either. Your
muscles and bones and such have natural speeds with which they can effectively expend power. This is
one reason you can bike much faster than you can walk or run, too: you just can't move your legs all
that fast when running, even if you were suspended in the air by a rope, for example, how fast could
you move your legs back and forth pushing on nothing? Bicycles "gear up", giving you something to
push against even when you are already moving fast, without having your legs move faster than their
natural power region.

Similarly, skaters "gear up," but in a way that may not be so obvious. They mostly push sideways,
angling their skates out a bit so that a sideways thrust becomes forward motion. Now if they have
their skates at a large angle, they accelerate quickly but don't go very far (low gear). If their
skates are nearly parallel to the direction of motion then they go a long way on one thrust, but
don't accelerate much (high gear). So until losses set in from the air, rolling resistance, etc.,
skaters and cyclists have the same sort of force/acceleration abilities. Wheel size changes rolling
resistance, but it's not a huge factor at lower speeds. Of course, different muscles are used, and
skaters probably do have much higher rolling resistance from those small wheels, but they sure can
go fast on smooth pavement, same as you.

Alan Weiss NJ Gold Rush, E2 tandem, and Leitra rider and ex-physics major

skott said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens
and low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at 27
mph. How do they do that? Many people on this forum think bigger wheels are faster but these guys
are on micro wheels. I can't believe their bearings are that much better and they certainly are
not more aerodynamic in their body position. So, does the answer lie in hard wheels or is their
some incredible power in their leg stroke? I wonder how fast a fully suspended recumbent would be
if it rode on hard,ie.,noncompliant, wheels?. Perhaps that is why the more
psi the faster. Any thoughts?

Skott

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I see skaters on the Van Fleet trail, in central florida, who easily cruise at 15.

One racer, when my friend and I passed him with malice, at about 20 ( Hey!! I didn't say WE were
faster!!) , accellerated, quickly caught us, skated alongside and said "Trying a breakaway, huh?"

Believe it, my friend.
--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer
Clone www.gate.net/~teblum

There is a skater guy on my regular ride. I have a hard time reeling him in, he's usually around
17-18mph, for most of the 12 mile trail. Believe it is right!

They have bigger balls

skott said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens
and low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at 27
mph. How do they do that? Many people on this forum think bigger wheels are faster but these guys
are on micro wheels. I can't believe their bearings are that much better and they certainly are
not more aerodynamic in their body position. So, does the answer lie in hard wheels or is their
some incredible power in their leg stroke? I wonder how fast a fully suspended recumbent would be
if it rode on hard,ie.,noncompliant, wheels?. Perhaps that is why the more
psi the faster. Any thoughts?

Skott

I was doing 19 in my low racer last week and was scared half to death when a girl rollerblading was
a foot behind me.

I don't know how they can do that either but they can

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think you should check your speedometer, I have never seen a roller

blader

Quoted message said:

moving that fast.

"skott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens
and low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at
27 mph. How do they do that? Many people on this forum think bigger wheels are faster but these
guys are on micro wheels. I can't believe their bearings are that much better and they certainly
are not more aerodynamic in their body position. So, does the answer lie in hard wheels or is
their some incredible power in their leg stroke? I wonder how fast a fully suspended recumbent
would be if it rode on hard,ie.,noncompliant, wheels?. Perhaps that is why the more
psi the faster. Any thoughts?

Skott

Tom Blum said:

I see skaters on the Van Fleet trail, in central florida, who easily cruise at 15.

One racer, when my friend and I passed him with malice, at about 20 ( Hey!! I didn't say WE were
faster!!) , accellerated, quickly caught us, skated alongside and said "Trying a breakaway, huh?"

Believe it, my friend.

Just find some good chip seal or freshly milled asphalt concrete [1], and the inline skaters will be
out of luck.

[1] I need to check all the fasteners on my Sunset after riding on a lot of both this past weekend.

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Tom Blum wrote:

:> One racer, when my friend and I passed him with malice, at about 20 ( Hey!! I didn't say WE were
:> faster!!) , accellerated, quickly caught us, skated alongside and said "Trying a breakaway, huh?"
:>
:> Believe it, my friend.

: Just find some good chip seal or freshly milled asphalt concrete [1], and the inline skaters will
: be out of luck.

Isn't it unsporting to attack on the chipseal sections?

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Tom Blum wrote:

:> One racer, when my friend and I passed him with malice, at about 20 ( Hey!! I didn't say WE
:> were faster!!) , accellerated, quickly caught us, skated alongside and said "Trying a
:> breakaway, huh?"
:>
:> Believe it, my friend.

: Just find some good chip seal or freshly milled asphalt concrete [1], and the inline skaters
: will be out of luck.

Isn't it unsporting to attack on the chipseal sections?

As always, ask yourself, WWFD? [1]

On a more serious note, when passing through a small East-Central Illinois town on a club ride, a
group of teenaged inline skaters decided to give chase to our group. A girl in the group went flat
on her face trying to traverse a rough spot in the pavement. Fortunately, her injuries were minor
enough to not require medical attention.

[1] What Would Fabrizio Do?

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think you should check your speedometer, I have never seen a roller blader moving that fast.

Check out the movie "Airborne" sometime. The last 20 minutes in particular. Of course, they're
racing downhill but they're still haulin boody. I'm a fat old fart and I can still cruise along
pretty good on the flats and being heavy I can smoke my son on the downhills. The problem with that
is not only stopping but also KEEPING from stopping. I hit a small piece of white rock once while
zingin down a hill and I was like a Heywood Banks tune: YEAH TOAST!!!

Quoted message said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens and
low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at 27 mph.
How do they do that? Many people on this forum think bigger wheels are faster but these guys are on
micro wheels. I can't believe their bearings are that much better and they certainly are not more
aerodynamic in their body position. So, does the answer lie in hard wheels or is their some
incredible power in their leg stroke? I wonder how fast a fully suspended recumbent would be if it
rode on hard,ie.,noncompliant, wheels?. Perhaps that is why the more
psi the faster. Any thoughts?

Skott

Hi Skott

Glad you are enjoying your Corsa, it is a great bike!

Big wheels are most definitely lower rolling resistance than small wheels if all else is equal
(width, construction, pressure) with research going back well over 100 years in train, car, and
bike wheels. Rolling resistance is inversely proportional to diameter on smooth surfaces, but
can get proportionally worse as the wheels get smaller on rougher surfaces. Bicycling Science,
High Tech Cycling, and Bicycle Design are a few books that cover that research in bicycle tire
rolling resistance.

Can very fast bikes be made that use small wheels? Absolutely! Its more complicated than just
rolling resistance, with aerodynamics being the majority of the drag over about 10 or 11 MPH on
most fast upright racing bicycles.

I could only find the inline ~~ hour record at about 24 MPH for a little over an hour (without
drafting) by Derek Parra (did'nt he win a Olympic medal in ice speed skating?)

A very fast time by a world class skater and athlete, but just not in the same speed class as
can be acheived by much lower capacity athletes on non-faired fast bicycles.

How much is due to the skaters aerodynamics, higher rolling resistance, or ability to deliver
power to the ground efficiently I just don't know.

Enjoy your bike, and it sounds like chasing the fast bladers will be good training in
your area!

Tailwinds
Rich Pinto
Bacchetta Bicycles

There's an older type of racing roller skate that has one-way rachets on the wheels, like the
freewheel gear clusters on a bike. You don't have to draw them back sideways to catch some forward
thrust, but you can pull straight back. The wheels are in a 2X2 configuration rather than inline.
They are often used with ski poles and I've seen a few expert skaters going faster with them than
any inline skater could
do.

They are only rarely used in the U.S. and are more expensive than most inline models. All the
people with who I've talked at inline skate shops, knew nothing about them. They got blank
looks on their faces when I tried to describe them and how fast they could allow a person to
skate. Nothing could possibly be faster than their inline skates, according to them.

A couple of guys used them on our bikepaths to commute the 10 miles from their residence to the
university in past years. They could outrun all but the fastest bicyclists. The one-way
ratchets are especially effective when skating uphill, compared to the inline two-way wheels.
The ski poles would be handy instruments to wield against harrassing motorists or attack dogs,
ne c'est-pas?

Steve McDonald

[email hidden] (skott) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens
and low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at 27
mph. How do they do that?

Well, I guess there's skaters, and then there's SKATERS. I seem to remember when Eric Heiden was
skating in the olympics he had 29-inch thighs. How many cyclists do you know with that much muscle
mass? Heiden skated the 10,000m in a world record time of 14:28.13 back in 1980. That's 41.468 km/h
or 25.676 MPH average over a 6.25 mile course. Not bad. Of course, ice is a lot slicker than
chip-seal, but he also had to negotiate a lot of turns. No doubt he could go even faster on a
straight course.

[email hidden] (Bill Anton) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (skott) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have been enjoying my new Corsa and am able to cruise in the low to mid 20's but I am always
amazed when I encounter inline skaters on the trails. They can move right along in the hi teens
and low twenty's (mph) without the mechanical advantage of a gear system. The top racers run at
27 mph. How do they do that?

Well, I guess there's skaters, and then there's SKATERS. I seem to remember when Eric Heiden was
skating in the olympics he had 29-inch thighs. How many cyclists do you know with that much muscle
mass? Heiden skated the 10,000m in a world record time of 14:28.13 back in 1980. That's 41.468
km/h or 25.676 MPH average over a 6.25 mile course. Not bad. Of course, ice is a lot slicker than
chip-seal, but he also had to negotiate a lot of turns. No doubt he could go even faster on a
straight course.

5 years later, in 1985, Heiden won the inaugural USPro cycling championships in Philadelphia - which
was a ride of 156 miles, including 10 laps up the manayunk wall (.6 miles @18% gradient) He weighed
a little less, but still won the sprint easily. Superior aerobic capacity quickly rises to the top
of any sport.

In article <[email hidden]>, Steve McDonald

Quoted message said:

There's an older type of racing roller skate that has one-way rachets on the wheels, like the
freewheel gear clusters on a bike.

That is so cool! Any name brands to google?

JoanD'arcRoast <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Steve McDonald

Quoted message said:

There's an older type of racing roller skate that has one-way rachets on the wheels, like
the freewheel gear clusters on a bike.

That is so cool! Any name brands to google?

This place sells them velotique.comrski.htmOpen ↗ I don't know anything about the company,
just did a quick look up.