Speed

Most people talk about cadence, HR, power, etc. because speed itself is somewhat meaningless. Too many variables- wind speed (head/tailwind), gradient, how baggy/tight your clothes are (aerodynamics). The only time it's somewhat valid is to compare your own speeds, over the same course, under the same conditions. Even then you could be in better shape and still potentially record a lower speed. If that was your measure you may become demoralized, even though you became stronger and should be celebrating. A rider who can complete 25 miles in one hour is probably in very good shape. Some riders can only manage 20-25mph for the same time but still manage to do ok in entry level races. Some people are very fit and can ride hundreds of miles but can only reach speeds a little over 20 mph or so on the flat. Distance is a good metric, but then is it a flat distance, a hilly distance, or just a rolling hills distance. You see where this model of speed and distance can suddenly crumble into meaninglesness? Adding another metric, like heart rate for instance, adds quite a bit of context.

Racing and/or training to race is a big part of cycling. So are group rides. Whereas you'll read much more about the sport (racing) of cycling there are millions of cyclist that don't (or no longer) race.

I belong to a local cycling club. and they have group rides that are based on Classifications or Average Riding Speed. If you use a bicycle computer it will track your speed, as well as average speed. Although dividing miles by time isn't complex... you get the idea.

The Classifications used (this is a standard) are:
A+: 22+ mph
A: 18 - 21 mph
B: 15 - 18 mph
C: 12 - 15 mph
D: 9-12 mph

Of course... I'd much rather be fit and lean and capable to ride with the A+ guys. But I am not, and I can't. If I could however... I'd join a group that trains to race.
My club offers very few rides in the D class. I think most that ride in D class have some health issues... but enjoy the activity and company.
B and C class riders make the bulk of the cycling club that I belong too. I've heard it said that any decent cyclist can ride at 15 MPH. But keep in mind that is an average speed over a distance and course selected for a group ride.

+1 to what danfoz said. Without context--specifically route, terrain, road grades, wind, distance, and other factors--speed is really a meaningless metric. 10mph for 10 miles on a 10% grade is tougher than 20mph on the flats for 10 miles. Moreover, the only important speeds are the speeds at which you can pedal and the speeds you aspire to. If you want to ride at higher speeds, get thee to the "Cycling Training" forum.

I really want to say (and should have said) that I really do agree with danfoz (and alienator) completely. Speed by itself doesn't mean much. I know [for me] when I was new to cycling it was all pretty confusing. Finding a cycling club and/or other cyclist with similar interests was helpful. Finding the charts and reviewing the routes used for group rides allowed me to measure myself against known standards.

Maybe I should have also mentioned my first cycling partner was a heart monitor. Of course, I had returned to cycling at a more mature age and I spoke with my doctor about my plans in advance also. I really enjoy cycling whether its the wind passing through my helmet and hair or just the sunshine on my face. But training and charting my own health and fitness improvements had its own rewards as well.

Wise people understand when asked the question about speed it is referring to the typical solo speed on the flat without wind or other complications. Much like Dave Cutter's list.

Somewhere around 16mph for several hours seems reasonable as the dividing line between casual and serious bicyclists. 18mph seems be reachable for those who have a desire to ride "fast." Beyond that it does not matter.

Descending speed should be limited to the speed that you want to fall off your bike at. I like 10mph on some descents (that was as slow as I went up).

Quoted post said:

Somewhere around 16mph for several hours seems reasonable as the dividing line between casual and serious bicyclists. 18mph seems be reachable for those who have a desire to ride "fast." Beyond that it does not matter.

May I be the first in telling you that is a bizarre statement? It even contradicts your bizarre signature line.

On my next group ride I think I am going to just spin easy at 18mph and tell my friends that, "A wise man says, beyond 18 - it does not matter." Very zen.

I am currently in the A++ bracket. I average 22-25 mph on rides.

I will not however disclose whether or not I am grabbing on to a vehicle of some type for 1/3 of the ride.....

lol

Completely kidding.

If I really push I can work out 21 mph on a 25 mile ride. Typically I stay within 18 mph though when I am just riding.

I am a speed chaser though, I really want to increase that average speed!

I am currently in the A++ bracket. I average 22-25 mph on rides.

I will not however disclose whether or not I am grabbing on to a vehicle of some type for 1/3 of the ride.....

lol

Completely kidding.

If I really push I can work out 21 mph on a 25 mile ride. Typically I stay within 18 mph though when I am just riding.

I am a speed chaser though, I really want to increase that average speed!

An old Guy said:

Wise people understand when asked the question about speed it is referring to the typical solo speed on the flat without wind or other complications. Much like Dave Cutter's list.
Somewhere around 16mph for several hours seems reasonable as the dividing line between casual and serious bicyclists. 18mph seems be reachable for those who have a desire to ride "fast." Beyond that it does not matter.
Descending speed should be limited to the speed that you want to fall off your bike at. I like 10mph on some descents (that was as slow as I went up).

As usual you come in with information that completely lacks credibility. Wise people actually understand that when asked the question about speed, the answer depends on many of things already mentioned. It is patently stupid and purposely misleading to think or suggest that it only refers to flat, windless land. In fact there's a significant portion of the population that doesn't live on flat, windless land. Much like in the Power Training sub-forum, An Old Guy has absolutely nothing to offer.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by An old Guy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
Somewhere around 16mph for several hours seems reasonable as the dividing line between casual and serious bicyclists.

My father enjoyed fishing with his friends. As a child I used to listen to their stories of monster sized fish in a local lake. I used to think the lake should be drained to prove once and for all time that those story's were true.

As a young man I used to play golf. At a golf outing I once witnessed a drunken fellow golfer sink an astonishing 16 foot putt. It was astonishing because in doing so he fell down in a drunken heap and had to be helped to the club house. I was amazed a week later to hear the story recited as a hole-in-one.

But with cyclists... when they tell you of a 3 hour (total time) century ridden in 110 degree mid-western humidly you can believe it. Even that part about... it took so long because he stopped and had lunch with the wife and kids.

An old Guy opinions may be only his own... but his comments seem honest. Unless your old or otherwise unhealthy I wouldn't make 16 MPH my goal. But if your looking for a rough idea of how fast typical cyclist are... that's not a bad number.

Old guy's statement brought this to mind.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by nkobs [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

As a newer rider I'm wondering about speed. I know everyone talks about cadence and RPM's but all I know is mph and distance I've ridden. For newer riders what are average speeds to try for when climbing, on flats and descents?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by An old Guy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Wise people understand when asked the question about speed it is referring to the typical solo speed on the flat without wind or other complications.

Your definition of wise must be different from most other folks. I would have thought that basic literacy would have been included in that definition...

As for nkobs question:

16 to 18 mph on the flat for an extended period of time is reasonable to start with.

Climbing - getting up the hill without grinding to a stop and keeling over is a good start. On the hills it's all about power AND weight, with the latter mainly coming from you and not from the bike (should you have a sudden urge to buy lightweight stuff :P )

Descending - whatever you have the nerve/skill to attain. Some folks have no worries with 60mph, some get the willies at 30... It is what it is. Just remember to look much further ahead to read the road conditions/hazards well in advance. Getting braking done in a straight of a line as possible helps

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Descending - whatever you have the nerve/skill to attain. Some folks have no worries with 60mph, some get the willies at 30... It is what it is. Just remember to look much further ahead to read the road conditions/hazards well in advance. Getting braking done in a straight of a line as possible helps

That's for sure - and it depends on the day sometimes. I'm comfortable between 40-45mph. Over 50 thoughts start crossing my mind about the best way to bail if something goes wrong - especially a front tire blow out. I force myself to push that aside and refocus all thought on what's going on around me. When I inline skate I mentally run through my crash routine during warm up so it'll be automatic when the time comes, but at cycle speeds on pavement there is no "safe" bail out - it's just going to be what it's going to be. Aim for flat open pavement and not big solid objects, I guess.

I ski a lot and 35-50mph is pretty normal - sometimes more. I've dumped it on hardpack snow and bounced along for a good distance, so hitting the ground at that speed isn't an unknown, but but to do it on pavement with bare skin exposed.??? Ouch. Fortunately it hasn't happened so far. I start to run through a quick "crash plan" around 50, but that lasts for about a nano second because the environment is usually too fluid and nothing really comes to mind . All attention is needed to focus on processing everything going on in front/ around me. Definitely a mental game.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by sitzmark [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

That's for sure - and it depends on the day sometimes. I'm comfortable between 40-45mph. Over 50 thoughts start crossing my mind about the best way to bail if something goes wrong - especially a front tire blow out. I force myself to push that aside and refocus all thought on what's going on around me. When I inline skate I mentally run through my crash routine during warm up so it'll be automatic when the time comes, but at cycle speeds on pavement there is no "safe" bail out - it's just going to be what it's going to be. Aim for flat open pavement and not big solid objects, I guess.

I ski a lot and 35-50mph is pretty normal - sometimes more. I've dumped it on hardpack snow and bounced along for a good distance, so hitting the ground at that speed isn't an unknown, but but to do it on pavement with bare skin exposed.??? Ouch. Fortunately it hasn't happened so far. I start to run through a quick "crash plan" around 50, but that lasts for about a nano second because the environment is usually too fluid and nothing really comes to mind . All attention is needed to focus on processing everything going on in front/ around me. Definitely a mental game.

There's not really a whole bunch you can do if faced with a blow out at speed. Try and keep the bike upright for as long as possible and stay away from items like street lights and parked cars.

Years ago I had a bit of an "off" following a failed attempt at braking coming into a very sharp turn on a steep downhill. Cow sh1t, rain, mud and diesel has a somewhat of a negative effect on braking to varying degrees. I'd faced similar situations many times before and the brakes ended up working but this time I might as well used my tongue on the pavement for better braking. I had a split second choice. Massive thorny bushes, parked cars, or curb and then house wall. First one - I like my eyes so the bushes were out, ditto the second from possibly flying through a window and the last just seemed to suck in general so the house it was. The brakes kicked in fairly close to impact and no doubt spared my ass but in was a long time in a neck brace and I still feel it almost 20 years later when the weathers cold. I had more colours in my bruises than there are in most rainbows... Killed my Specialized Airforce 2 helmet in the process.

I still love going downhill as fast as possible though. I prefer very twisty and technical to fairly steep wide roads that are fast by default.

I live in central Ohio, what is this climbing and decent you speak of lol

Soooo flat here, but the wind can rally knock you back and some areas I ride have some hills but nothing compared to the west coast. A friend I had riding with me this summer was from San Fransisco and every time we got near and incline I would watch him promptly pull away. It was OK though, I kept some rocks in my pocket and usually could hit him before he pulled away too much 🙂

I think it all boils down to this:

1. A personal ave mph will not be comparable to anyone who does not ride with you consisently and has equipment comperable to yours.
   
2. Every rider has a different set of priorities or items which they wish to grow upon. Mine is speed but for some consistent distance is more important, or form, or looking way cool in tight clothing...
   
3. Unless you grab a power meter (holy [censored] those are expensive) and join a group which uses like equipment online, IMO it is best to compete with yourself, get confident in your training, and look forward to the challenge that will obliterate that confidence so you can rebuild and get even better.
   

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by sitzmark [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

That's for sure - and it depends on the day sometimes. I'm comfortable between 40-45mph. Over 50 thoughts start crossing my mind about the best way to bail if something goes wrong - especially a front tire blow out. I force myself to push that aside and refocus all thought on what's going on around me. When I inline skate I mentally run through my crash routine during warm up so it'll be automatic when the time comes, but at cycle speeds on pavement there is no "safe" bail out - it's just going to be what it's going to be. Aim for flat open pavement and not big solid objects, I guess.

I ski a lot and 35-50mph is pretty normal - sometimes more. I've dumped it on hardpack snow and bounced along for a good distance, so hitting the ground at that speed isn't an unknown, but but to do it on pavement with bare skin exposed.??? Ouch. Fortunately it hasn't happened so far. I start to run through a quick "crash plan" around 50, but that lasts for about a nano second because the environment is usually too fluid and nothing really comes to mind . All attention is needed to focus on processing everything going on in front/ around me. Definitely a mental game.

Every time I see a post like this it makes me think of my 2007 crash. 42 mph to 0 in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Thinking about it made me want to go back and look at the GPS data again. Look at the speed chart [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

connect.garmin.com5421774Open ↗

Lost a lot of skin that day, separated shoulder and a whole lot of equipment damage. One of my friends that has watched pro cycling for most of his life said he had never seen a crash like that on TV. I am a little slower descending these days. I will get into the 40's, but then it all starts coming back again. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

I remember someone asked Bob Roll what is the best attribute for a pro cyclist and he said a short memory (in regards to crashing). I evidently do not have that attribute. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Every time I see a post like this it makes me think of my 2007 crash. 42 mph to 0 in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Thinking about it made me want to go back and look at the GPS data again. Look at the speed chart [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

connect.garmin.com5421774Open ↗

Lost a lot of skin that day, separated shoulder and a whole lot of equipment damage. One of my friends that has watched pro cycling for most of his life said he had never seen a crash like that on TV. I am a little slower descending these days. I will get into the 40's, but then it all starts coming back again. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

I remember someone asked Bob Roll what is the best attribute for a pro cyclist and he said a short memory (in regards to crashing). I evidently do not have that attribute. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Yep - until the first "incident" one doesn't really know what their religion is. Hope springs eternal until then. 🙂

There was a period where I broke ribs 3 years in a row skiing and had to finish out the season in pain. That got very old, very quick. Just blew a three year streak of no falls by flipping trough a control fence a couple of weeks ago. Minor bruising and an achilles pull, but nothing major. Hope still springing eternal. LOL.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

There's not really a whole bunch you can do if faced with a blow out at speed. Try and keep the bike upright for as long as possible and stay away from items like street lights and parked cars.

Years ago I had a bit of an "off" following a failed attempt at braking coming into a very sharp turn on a steep downhill. Cow sh1t, rain, mud and diesel has a somewhat of a negative effect on braking to varying degrees. I'd faced similar situations many times before and the brakes ended up working but this time I might as well used my tongue on the pavement for better braking. I had a split second choice. Massive thorny bushes, parked cars, or curb and then house wall. First one - I like my eyes so the bushes were out, ditto the second from possibly flying through a window and the last just seemed to suck in general so the house it was. The brakes kicked in fairly close to impact and no doubt spared my ass but in was a long time in a neck brace and I still feel it almost 20 years later when the weathers cold. I had more colours in my bruises than there are in most rainbows... Killed my Specialized Airforce 2 helmet in the process.

I still love going downhill as fast as possible though. I prefer very twisty and technical to fairly steep wide roads that are fast by default.

Happy to hear it "worked out". Not desirable choices - a nightmare actually. But it would be naive not to be accepting of the possibility anytime one throws a leg over a top bar.

Twisties add many more variables to the equation. Slows me down. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I still love going downhill as fast as possible though.

Hehe not the best advice for the children or the accident prone but +1. It's usually whatever speed arrives after spinning out on a 50x12. And at that speed there's nothing left to do but giggle like a little schoolgirl.[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]