FTP has come up very nicely after consistent training this spring but it doesn't seem to translate very well to TT bike. I haven't run a formal test but based on training rides it could be easily 30w difference. I do almost all the interval/L4 work on the TT bike at least 2-3 times a week and whatever minimal racing I do is TT's. Road bike's for group rides and sprint intervals.
So the question: should I persistently keep riding TT bike (or ride it almost exclusively) to try to translate the power? Does the power eventually come? r should I start to run interval/L4 on road bike where I can assume I can achieve greater gains due I can do the workout with higher power?
Of course one option is to start testing with position to optimise power vs. aerodynamics but that is honestly so time consuming (all credit to ones who have persistence to do that!) that I wouldn't like to spend the short, short summer here for that.
Can you please share your experiences and examples of difference in power between TT and road bike?
Thanks Alex! I had already read that but didn't remember the power readings. Though the result is more demoralizing to me: I ride and ride my TT bike and don't get even close to road bike power and you nail it with just one try [img]cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗[/img].
Well realistically speaking, from a power production point of view, you probably had very similar position in your TT and road bike riding the TT vs. riding road bike on tops/hoods (low on drops, with "closed" hip angle which I think is the key, at least in my case because I do not have any difficulty in breathing, the legs simply do not deliver).
Next week I will try some L5 with TT bike to see if that helps.
I ride and ride my TT bike and don't get even close to road bike power
Check your fit on the TT bicycle. Are you flexible enough to achieve your desired position? Set up the TT bicycle just like your road bike, and do some testing. Start optimizing your position, test some more.
Check your fit on the TT bicycle. Are you flexible enough to achieve your desired position? Set up the TT bicycle just like your road bike, and do some testing. Start optimizing your position, test some more.
Yes, I guess that is eventually the way I have to go. I think it is simply about how deep the position is. I haven't really run a test but I am almost sure I have exactly the same problem with road bike if I ride very low in drops: hip angle gets closed. Of course it can be that small changes can make a big difference. Unfortunately we do not have professional fitting anywhere in the country which might indeed come handy in sorting out this kind of things.
Nowadays I am not the most flexible person there is but I honestly do not see what is the big deal with flexibility? If you can be in the position and turn cranks without it tearing your muscles then that's it? Or what am I missing?
just out of curiosity... why do you even bother with sprint intervals if all you do is TT's?
I don't "bother" it is simply fun! I know it doesn't probably do any good for TT:ing. I also do long group rides which probably are more detrimental than useful but those are fun and absolutely fantastic social events.
Nowadays I am not the most flexible person there is but I honestly do not see what is the big deal with flexibility? If you can be in the position and turn cranks without it tearing your muscles then that's it? Or what am I missing?
What you are missing: Your back, glutes, and hamstrings are all lengthened when you close the hip angle. You don't feel it, someone might not see it (swaying of the spine in a deep TT position), but it drags on your power output.
Solution: Yoga, stretching. Ride your road bike in the drops.
test: Can you put your palms of your hands flat on the floor without bending your knees?
What you are missing: Your back, glutes, and hamstrings are all lengthened when you close the hip angle. You don't feel it, someone might not see it (swaying of the spine in a deep TT position), but it drags on your power output.
Ok, I cannot feel it and I cannot see it. Can you perhaps point me to some literature or publication where I could read about it?
Yes, I guess that is eventually the way I have to go. I think it is simply about how deep the position is. I haven't really run a test but I am almost sure I have exactly the same problem with road bike if I ride very low in drops: hip angle gets closed. Of course it can be that small changes can make a big difference. Unfortunately we do not have professional fitting anywhere in the country which might indeed come handy in sorting out this kind of things.
Nowadays I am not the most flexible person there is but I honestly do not see what is the big deal with flexibility? If you can be in the position and turn cranks without it tearing your muscles then that's it? Or what am I missing?
Pics on the road bike vs. TT bike would be helpful - real ones not the static shots some folks pop up!
Bummer. I did some testing today and it looks like the problem is not only on TT bike but I have simply lost good 10-20w of power in last few weeks [img]cyclingforums.comfrown.gifOpen ↗[/img].
It's strange because I can put out 300w for 3-4 hours without feeling particularly tired but when the power goes up going stops.
I would throw some sprints in for time trials. You have to start and you usually have to go through a turn. Also good to tap into those type 2b fibres from time to time. I train for the pursuit and do sprint sessions once a month in the off season, twice in season and do some 50m standing starts (more to warm up and test the bike) in track sessions in the weeks leading up to the main event. While the main priority for TTs is FTP in aero position I think there is an advantage to be gained from a little neuromuscular work.
What you are missing: Your back, glutes, and hamstrings are all lengthened when you close the hip angle. You don't feel it, someone might not see it (swaying of the spine in a deep TT position), but it drags on your power output.
Solution: Yoga, stretching. Ride your road bike in the drops.
test: Can you put your palms of your hands flat on the floor without bending your knees?
There's got to be more to it than that. I recently realized that I'm quite comfortable in an aero position (as low as I could get on my road frame) without any sizable loss in power. Yet, it takes me a few minutes of stretching to comfortably touch the ground even with my fingertips. My legs are not particularly long compared to my torso either.
There's got to be more to it than that. I recently realized that I'm quite comfortable in an aero position (as low as I could get on my road frame) without any sizable loss in power. Yet, it takes me a few minutes of stretching to comfortably touch the ground even with my fingertips. My legs are not particularly long compared to my torso either.
compromising one's breathing is also a problem for many who get too agressive with their TT position
It's strange because I can put out 300w for 3-4 hours without feeling particularly tired but when the power goes up going stops.
QUOTE]
:eek:
Well that 300w is normalized power not average like in your killing 2 hour grinds and emphasis on the word particularly [img]cyclingforums.combiggrin.gifOpen ↗[/img]. Of course I am tired afterwards but not so that I wouldn't start to think about the next workout within couple of hours.
I would throw some sprints in for time trials. You have to start and you usually have to go through a turn. Also good to tap into those type 2b fibres from time to time. I train for the pursuit and do sprint sessions once a month in the off season, twice in season and do some 50m standing starts (more to warm up and test the bike) in track sessions in the weeks leading up to the main event. While the main priority for TTs is FTP in aero position I think there is an advantage to be gained from a little neuromuscular work.
Funnily my best sustainable power efforts have come the next day after a sprint workout with just cruising around and kicking in some 5-10sec all out sprints. Of course it could be just a coinsidence or that it is the cruising part that does the trick but at least mentally I feel very fresh and ready to rock after a sprint wo.
Of course one option is to start testing with position to optimise power vs. aerodynamics but that is honestly so time consuming (all credit to ones who have persistence to do that!) that I wouldn't like to spend the short, short summer here for that.
Achieving optimal fit on a TT bike, especially when it's not a true TT bike but rather a road bike that had been turned into a TT bike is something that can take a lot of time, especially if you are under constraints flexibility wise.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "start testing with position to optimize power vs aerodynamics", but if it means spending time to improve the fit until it is you reach the perfect compromise, it is well worth it.
Friend of mine (Master in biomechanics) is an expert in fitting. A session with a triathlete takes at least 2 to 3 hours, with video support, trying to find the perfect (well, best possible) compromise between power and aerodynamics.
