SPD Sandal lessons

Peter Cole said:

Try greasing (lightly, or waxing) new cleats/pedals until they wear-in a
little, it'll make the release easier.

I've never seen plain and multirelease cleats side by side (plain work
fine for me), but couldn't a handy person with a bench vise and a drill
mounted grinding wheel (or dremel) modify a plain cleat to do the same
thing?

And yes, I am a cheap [censored].

😄

maxo said:

Peter Cole said:

Try greasing (lightly, or waxing) new cleats/pedals until they wear-in a
little, it'll make the release easier.

I've never seen plain and multirelease cleats side by side (plain work
fine for me), but couldn't a handy person with a bench vise and a drill
mounted grinding wheel (or dremel) modify a plain cleat to do the same
thing?

And yes, I am a cheap [censored].

😄

Maybe, I've wondered that, I'm cheap, too.

The difference is in the shape of the nose of the cleat, the shapes are
a little complex, I don't think I'd trust my health to a Dremel job.

Peter Cole said:

maxo said:

Peter Cole said:

Try greasing (lightly, or waxing) new cleats/pedals until they wear-in a
little, it'll make the release easier.

I've never seen plain and multirelease cleats side by side (plain work
fine for me), but couldn't a handy person with a bench vise and a drill
mounted grinding wheel (or dremel) modify a plain cleat to do the same
thing?

And yes, I am a cheap [censored].

😄

Maybe, I've wondered that, I'm cheap, too.

The difference is in the shape of the nose of the cleat, the shapes are a
little complex, I don't think I'd trust my health to a Dremel job.

Oh, I'd go through a series of rigorous safety tests if I did that, like
trying them out on a stationary bike at the Y. :P

I have the real McCoy, the Shimano version.

Re Lesson #1: that is standard - shoes never come with cleats and
should not; it would be presumptive of a shoe manufacturer to assume
that one needed/wanted a specific type/brand/model of cleat. Not all
of us use SPD pedals.

Re Lesson #2: rigidity is an issue, but less so than you imply. I use
SpeedPlay Frog pedals and I have ZERO problems with unclipping due to
give in the shoes. I had almost ZERO issue when using Time ATAC
pedals. I suspect that pedal adjustment, not lack or rigidity in the
shoes, is the biggest source of the problem in your case.

Re Lesson #3: WITF relies on settings by the LBS? Everyone should
personally check out their equipment before use, and that includes
tension adjustments in the pedals.

My current sandals are +/- 2 years old and have been used year around
during that period, with somewhere over 15K miles of use. I used them
going down the west coast 2 years ago, on a circuit of the Dolomites
and Alps last year, and on a trip from Bordeaux to Barcelona including
several passes in the Pyrenees from which I just returned. I love
them, hardly ever revert to the closed shoes, and have never had a
problem that caused me to tip over or even nearly tip over. Get them
adjusted properly and you will learn to love them.

- rick

dgk said:

Having completed exactly one and a half successful commutes with my
new SPD pedals and shoes, my sandals arrived from Nashbar. I ordered
them before getting the pedals at my LBS. Why sandals? I liked the
idea of open toed riding and they were on sale for $30. Exustar brand.

<snip>

Do your cleats protrude *at all* with these sandals? IOW, how much can you
hear/feel them contacting the ground when you walk?

This is one of my pet peeves with SPD shoes. When they first came out, the
Shimano-soled ones were really good. The cleats didn't protrude at all. Since
then they've gotten worse.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Do your cleats protrude *at all* with these sandals? IOW, how much can you
hear/feel them contacting the ground when you walk?

I wear mine all the time (have them on now, as a matter of fact), so can
answer this. I use Frog cleats, but I bet spds are similar. When walking
on concrete sidewalks, there is a little crunch from the cleats contacting
the bits of sand on the top of the sidewalk. Walking on a wood floor you
don't hear anything, and I don't see scratches on the floor.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.

Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the setting.

Quoted message said:

I have the real McCoy, the Shimano version.

Re Lesson #1: that is standard - shoes never come with cleats and
should not; it would be presumptive of a shoe manufacturer to assume
that one needed/wanted a specific type/brand/model of cleat. Not all
of us use SPD pedals.

Re Lesson #2: rigidity is an issue, but less so than you imply. I use
SpeedPlay Frog pedals and I have ZERO problems with unclipping due to
give in the shoes. I had almost ZERO issue when using Time ATAC
pedals. I suspect that pedal adjustment, not lack or rigidity in the
shoes, is the biggest source of the problem in your case.

Re Lesson #3: WITF relies on settings by the LBS? Everyone should
personally check out their equipment before use, and that includes
tension adjustments in the pedals.

Well, I'm new to the concept of SPD. There were installed by the LBS,
who didn't give me whatever inserts came with them. I didn't even know
that there were adjusters until Peter mentioned them.

I am learning more about my bikes. I have a stand coming and have
started acquiring both tools and know-how. Plus, I have a few cheapo
Target specials that I plan on taking apart and fixing up. Still, one
isn't born knowing this stuff and there are only 24 hours in a day.
Mine tend to be fairly filled up.

I trust my mechanic to do most of the work on my car, and I expect my
LBS to be competent to work on my bike.

David L. Johnson said:

Matt O'Toole said:

Do your cleats protrude *at all* with these sandals? IOW, how much can you
hear/feel them contacting the ground when you walk?

I wear mine all the time (have them on now, as a matter of fact), so can
answer this. I use Frog cleats, but I bet spds are similar. When walking
on concrete sidewalks, there is a little crunch from the cleats contacting
the bits of sand on the top of the sidewalk. Walking on a wood floor you
don't hear anything, and I don't see scratches on the floor.

That is exactly the case with the shoes, just a crunch on sidewalks
but nothing on wood floors. However the sandals don't even crunch on
the sidewalks, they are a bit more recessed.

Special bonus to using the Sandals: today I switched back to the shoes
(it got a cooler) and it is much easier to use them. So I'm going to
stick with them until it gets really hot again.

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.

Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the setting.

That is the problem. They were set at the tightest. I think that,
given I'm new at this, they should have been adjusted to the middle,
or at least they should have mentioned that there WAS an adjustment
and talked about the pros and cons. That's why I like dealing with a
store and not just getting a package of stuff from
Nashbar-Performance-Supergo...

That is not to imply that I don't like getting packages of stuff from
NPS. In fact, I expect one soon. Plus my new bike workstand from EBAY.

Quoted message said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.

Who installed the pedals, you, or the LBS?

Life is Good!
Jeff

dgk said:

Quoted message said:

I have the real McCoy, the Shimano version.

Re Lesson #1: that is standard - shoes never come with cleats and
should not; it would be presumptive of a shoe manufacturer to assume
that one needed/wanted a specific type/brand/model of cleat. Not all
of us use SPD pedals.

Re Lesson #2: rigidity is an issue, but less so than you imply. I use
SpeedPlay Frog pedals and I have ZERO problems with unclipping due to
give in the shoes. I had almost ZERO issue when using Time ATAC
pedals. I suspect that pedal adjustment, not lack or rigidity in the
shoes, is the biggest source of the problem in your case.

Re Lesson #3: WITF relies on settings by the LBS? Everyone should
personally check out their equipment before use, and that includes
tension adjustments in the pedals.

Well, I'm new to the concept of SPD. There were installed by the LBS,
who didn't give me whatever inserts came with them. I didn't even know
that there were adjusters until Peter mentioned them.

Reminds me of those instructions that say '...then disconnect the green
wire! <continued on Pg2'.

<turns page>

Pg2 ...but FIRST...' ;-D

Quoted message said:

I am learning more about my bikes. I have a stand coming and have
started acquiring both tools and know-how. Plus, I have a few cheapo
Target specials that I plan on taking apart and fixing up. Still, one
isn't born knowing this stuff and there are only 24 hours in a day.
Mine tend to be fairly filled up.

I trust my mechanic to do most of the work on my car, and I expect my
LBS to be competent to work on my bike.

Yeah, I've found you just have to ask a lot of questions and occasionally
you'll hit on the right one. I also do them little favors, like I burned a
DVD of the recent spring classics and took it over and gave my main wrench
a couple disks. Cost to me, like 35 cents? Some of them don't even know
that stuff is on, or what Usenet binary groups are.

jj

dgk said:

Quoted message said:

Re Lesson #3: WITF relies on settings by the LBS? Everyone should
personally check out their equipment before use, and that includes
tension adjustments in the pedals.

Well, I'm new to the concept of SPD. There were installed by the LBS,
who didn't give me whatever inserts came with them. I didn't even know
that there were adjusters until Peter mentioned them.

I am learning more about my bikes. I have a stand coming and have
started acquiring both tools and know-how. Plus, I have a few cheapo
Target specials that I plan on taking apart and fixing up. Still, one
isn't born knowing this stuff and there are only 24 hours in a day.
Mine tend to be fairly filled up.

I trust my mechanic to do most of the work on my car, and I expect my
LBS to be competent to work on my bike.

I don't think your expectations are unreasonable. Many people who don't
have the time or desire to work on their bikes put their faith in the
LBS mechanic. Explaining the operation of an aspect of the bike,
particularly one that has such an immediate safety effect, should be
part of the responsibility. Installing pedals and leaving the release
set to maximum, without even informing the customer about the
availability of an adjustment is just wrong.

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.

Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the setting.

That is the problem. They were set at the tightest. I think that,
given I'm new at this, they should have been adjusted to the middle,
or at least they should have mentioned that there WAS an adjustment
and talked about the pros and cons. That's why I like dealing with a
store and not just getting a package of stuff from
Nashbar-Performance-Supergo...

That is not to imply that I don't like getting packages of stuff from
NPS. In fact, I expect one soon. Plus my new bike workstand from EBAY.

I must be dense because I am still confused. Are you saying that you expect
the LBS to go thought each box of pedals/equipment and make adjustments to
the default settings? Didn't the pedal come with instructions? Every pair
that I have purchased come with information concerning legal issues,
warranty, installation, adjustment, etc. If you are new, why didn't you ask
them about installation/setup issues?

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
> the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
> setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
> mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.
>
>
Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the setting.

That is the problem. They were set at the tightest. I think that,
given I'm new at this, they should have been adjusted to the middle,
or at least they should have mentioned that there WAS an adjustment
and talked about the pros and cons. That's why I like dealing with a
store and not just getting a package of stuff from
Nashbar-Performance-Supergo...

That is not to imply that I don't like getting packages of stuff from
NPS. In fact, I expect one soon. Plus my new bike workstand from EBAY.

I must be dense because I am still confused. Are you saying that you expect
the LBS to go thought each box of pedals/equipment and make adjustments to
the default settings? Didn't the pedal come with instructions? Every pair
that I have purchased come with information concerning legal issues,
warranty, installation, adjustment, etc. If you are new, why didn't you ask
them about installation/setup issues?

I'm sure that there were instructions and I should have asked for
them, but they also should have given them to me without asking. If
someone just buys the pedals and leaves with them, fine. But if they
do the install then they should ask how I want them set up given that
I don't know enough to ask.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:03:49 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.

Who installed the pedals, you, or the LBS?

LBS

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
>the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
>setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
>mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.
>
>

Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the setting.

That is the problem. They were set at the tightest. I think that,
given I'm new at this, they should have been adjusted to the middle,
or at least they should have mentioned that there WAS an adjustment
and talked about the pros and cons. That's why I like dealing with a
store and not just getting a package of stuff from
Nashbar-Performance-Supergo...

That is not to imply that I don't like getting packages of stuff from
NPS. In fact, I expect one soon. Plus my new bike workstand from EBAY.

I must be dense because I am still confused. Are you saying that you expect
the LBS to go thought each box of pedals/equipment and make adjustments to
the default settings? Didn't the pedal come with instructions? Every pair
that I have purchased come with information concerning legal issues,
warranty, installation, adjustment, etc. If you are new, why didn't you ask
them about installation/setup issues?

The problem is, when you're starting out, you don't know what you don't
know.

Flat pedals don't require any "setup" so why should clipless?

When I bought my first pair of clipless I did so at my LBS. I was shown
various pedals, with a recommendation, which I accepted. I had release
explained and how to adjust it, cleat angle and how to estimate it
initially, warnings about knee pain, warnings about practicing
unclipping, etc. The mechanic at the LBS installed the pedals on my
bike, installed cleats on my shoes (purchased at another LBS, since they
didn't stock my size), adjusted tension, and sent me on my way with
everything I needed, including all the information. That was almost 10
years ago, and I still have (& use) those pedals.

Oh, the LBS was Harris Cyclery, and the mechanic was Sheldon Brown.

And that's how it's supposed to be done.

dgk wrote:
:: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 04:59:46 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
:::
::: "dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::: news:[email hidden]...
::::
:::: Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to
:::: adjust the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the
:::: tightest setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole
:::: and others did mention it so I now know to have them set much
:::: looser for sandals.
::::
::::
::: Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the
::: setting.
:::
::
:: That is the problem. They were set at the tightest. I think that,
:: given I'm new at this, they should have been adjusted to the middle,
:: or at least they should have mentioned that there WAS an adjustment
:: and talked about the pros and cons. That's why I like dealing with a
:: store and not just getting a package of stuff from
:: Nashbar-Performance-Supergo...
::
:: That is not to imply that I don't like getting packages of stuff from
:: NPS. In fact, I expect one soon. Plus my new bike workstand from
:: EBAY.

Last year, about this time, I moved to the SPD pedals that came with my
bike. I took the bike to my LBS and they put the pedals on the bike and the
cleats on my shoes (I bought both from them). They adjusted the position of
the cleats til I was comfortable and also the tension on the cleats (set
them to the lightest setting) In addition, they let me sit on the trainer
for about an hour so I could get used to clipping in/out.

In addition, my "hot bike babe" (the young lady who sold me the bike and all
of the stuff I bought originally) was doing all of this for me. It was a
real treat. Too bad for me that she's moved on. I hope she's doing well.

A newbie and a good LBS are a marriage made in heaven, if you ask me.

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frank Drackman said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 04:59:46 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>
>"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>>
>> Lesson #3. There is a small screw on each side of each pedal to adjust
>> the release tension. [censored] bike store left them at the tightest
>> setting and made no mention of them. Luckily Peter Cole and others did
>> mention it so I now know to have them set much looser for sandals.
>>
>>
>Why blame the LBS? I can't imagine that they played with the setting.
>

That is the problem. They were set at the tightest. I think that,
given I'm new at this, they should have been adjusted to the middle,
or at least they should have mentioned that there WAS an adjustment
and talked about the pros and cons. That's why I like dealing with a
store and not just getting a package of stuff from
Nashbar-Performance-Supergo...

That is not to imply that I don't like getting packages of stuff from
NPS. In fact, I expect one soon. Plus my new bike workstand from EBAY.

I must be dense because I am still confused. Are you saying that you
expect
the LBS to go thought each box of pedals/equipment and make adjustments to
the default settings? Didn't the pedal come with instructions? Every
pair
that I have purchased come with information concerning legal issues,
warranty, installation, adjustment, etc. If you are new, why didn't you
ask
them about installation/setup issues?

I'm sure that there were instructions and I should have asked for
them, but they also should have given them to me without asking. If
someone just buys the pedals and leaves with them, fine. But if they
do the install then they should ask how I want them set up given that
I don't know enough to ask.

You cleared up my confusion. If they installed the pedals, and they knew
that you were new, then of course they should have given you advice and the
written directions.