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Spain photos + report

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01 / Original postSpain photos + reportKen Roberts · 17 Nov 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–7Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #7Ken Roberts · 19 Nov 2003

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rec.bicycles.rides archive
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17 November 2003
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19 November 2003
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Ken Roberts
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  1. Original post
    Ken Roberts
    Archived post
    #1

    Sharon and I just got back from a week in south central Spain, and it was great. Photos at
    roberts-1.comspain

    Our first time there -- much thanks to Garry Lee for championing Spain as the place to ride. We
    explored various areas south of Madrid, bounded by Chinchon to Granada - Alpujarra to Ronda -
    Grazalema to Sevilla to Toledo (with the aid of a rental car).

    What struck us most was the very modern and bicycle-friendly road network. Perhaps the best
    bicycling road network in the world: smooth pavement, generally wider than any other European
    country I know, good shoulders on high-traffic-volume roads, well-designed grading to smooth out
    hill-climbs, clear direction signs (except inside old city centers).

    We also liked the quiet farm country, greener than we expected around the hills. We liked the food a
    lot -- though we haven't figured out the hours for buying it while out riding.

    We liked using the book of Michelin 1:400000 maps: Espana & Portugal, Atlas de Carreteras Turistico
    2003 (ISBN 2-06-100242-0). We were even more glad for the Michelin 1:200000 Zoom 124 Costa del Sol
    map (though it did not seem as helpful yet as their France maps for warning about big hill-climbs).

    The area I most want to get back to is Sierra de Grazalema, in the mountains between Seville and
    Malaga (see the Zahara photo page). And nearby Ronda area was pretty nice too. We found some long
    climbs there, but smoothly graded and with big rewards in views and descents.

    Then there's so much wonderful gentler terrain all over the interior where it seemed like we could
    ride anywhere. Not sure where to pick, so I guess we'd try the area southeast from Sevilla, because
    it's close to Grazalema and Ronda.

    mid-November was great for Sevilla and Grazalema, though a bit cool for the Madrid region early in
    the morning.

    Which Spanish-language bicycle tour guides should we buy for our next trip there?

    Ken

    Report
  2. Jacques
    Archived post
    #2
    Quoted message said:

    What struck us most was the very modern and bicycle-friendly road network. Perhaps the best
    bicycling road network in the world: smooth pavement, generally wider than any other European
    country I know, good shoulders on high-traffic-volume roads, well-designed grading to smooth out
    hill-climbs, clear direction signs (except inside old city centers).

    Funny. I rode two days in northern Spain last fall after a week in France (see
    cassoulet.crazyguyonabike.comcassoulet.crazyguyonabike.com). I had the opposite feeling: a bicycle-hating country turning
    every major road into a motorway. I was relieved to get back to France after that.

    Jacques

    PS. Well, OK, I must admit that on other occasions I did have very good cycling experiences in
    Spain, but only on very remote minor roads in the countryside.

    Report
  3. Ken Roberts
    Archived post
    #3

    Well I've only been to the south central part of Spain, not the north -- and a few parts of France,
    mostly the Savoie and Isere departments.

    jacques wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I was relieved to get back to France after that.

    Funny. I was specifically thinking of how inferior are the Route National "N" roads I've experienced
    so far in France. How about look at my photo of an N-road in south central Spain:
    roberts-1.comaracena How about name one Route National road in Isere or Savoie
    that's half as well designed for bicycling as that?

    (and how about name some routes national N-roads in France as well designed for _cars_ as that. How
    does the motor vehicle death rate in France compare with Spain?)

    Quoted message said:

    . . . turning every major road into a motorway.

    My experience in south central Spain was that many of the big autovia motorways had parallel service
    roads with little traffic which were nice for bicycling. But in France the big autoroute motorways
    require payment of _tolls_, so the parallel non-autoroute roads are jammed with high-speed cars and
    trucks avoiding the toll payments.

    Ken

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  4. Mark Boyd
    Archived post
    #4

    I rode around Spain early last summer, coming into Spain near the Mediterranean from Portugal and
    leaving Spain due north of Barcelona. Major points on my itinerary were Seville, Cordoba, Granda,
    Valencia, and Barcelona.

    The roads were great - some of the best in Europe - but the bicycling wasn't. Spain has great things
    to see - The Mesquita at Codoba is simply stunning - and some fine places to visit, but I enjoyed
    riding more in Portugal which has some of Europe's worst roads, and neither of those compares to
    riding in France. Culture and attitude towards cyclists are both more important than great roads for
    for great bicycling.

    Mark <cs.unca.edubicycling.html

    Report
  5. Balthasar
    Archived post
    #5

    "Ken Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Hi Ken,

    Quoted message said:

    Well I've only been to the south central part of Spain, not the north -- and a few parts of
    France, mostly the Savoie and Isere departments.


    I've ridden in various parts of Spain and the quality of the roads can be quite different. The area
    of Spain where you were is quite touristy and quite wealthy as well- can afford decent roads.
    Moreover, the amount of traffic on the roads is determined by the time of the year to acertain
    degree- August in Spain is insane on the roads and very dangerous.

    Quoted message said:


    My experience in south central Spain was that many of the big autovia motorways had parallel
    service roads with little traffic which were nice for bicycling.

    Good point.

    But in France the big autoroute motorways require

    Quoted message said:

    payment of _tolls

    This is true in parts of Spain as well

    Quoted message said:

    Ken


    Balthasar

    Report
  6. Ken Brown
    Archived post
    #6
    jacques said:

    Funny. I rode two days in northern Spain last fall after a week in France (see
    cassoulet.crazyguyonabike.comcassoulet.crazyguyonabike.com). I had the opposite feeling: a bicycle-hating country turning
    every major road into a motorway. I was relieved to get back to France after that.


    I cycled in Germany and France this fall, Austria last year (see
    webhome.idirect.commosel1.html ). I aim to get off roads as much as possible, which
    is the reason I primarily picked Germany and Austria. They both have an excellent network of bike
    paths, as does Holland. When I was on roads I found that French drivers were much less bike-friendly
    than Germans and Austrians. Of course North American drivers are worse than the French. Ken Ken
    Brown, Toronto Canada Ontario Rail Trails: webhome.idirect.com~brown delete "nospam" if
    replying via e-mail

    Report
  7. Ken Roberts
    Archived post
    #7

    balthasar wrote

    Quoted message said:

    The area of Spain where you were is quite touristy and quite wealthy as well -- can afford
    decent roads.

    That makes a lot of sense, and accounts for difference of my reports from others.

    Quoted message said:

    August in Spain is insane on the roads and very dangerous.

    I have another reason for not going to Spain in August: the heat.

    But that's OK, I don't have any problem going back to that south central area more times -- it's not
    so easy to find good bicycle touring places for November.

    Ken

    Report

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