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General fitness, health and nutrition
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4 March 2005
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Kilikini
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  1. Manhattan restaurant hosts nudist night
    New York diners at table naked but not unadorned

    Updated: 7:48 a.m. ET Feb. 19, 2005
    NEW YORK - The diners arrived at a nice Manhattan restaurant on a cold
    February night and stripped off coats, hats, gloves and scarves. They didn't
    stop there.

    Skirts, shirts, pants, underwear and stockings all ended up stashed in
    plastic bags by the bar as the patrons got naked for the monthly "Clothing
    Optional Dinner."

    "It's exciting to be in a restaurant nude," said George Keyes, 65, a retired
    junior high school English teacher.

    Nude yes, but not unadorned.

    Keyes, a lifelong nudist, wore a necklace, earrings and a black leather
    "genital bracelet" with red studs. And white sneakers.

    The dinner was started by a group of New York nudists who wanted something a
    bit more elegant than the wilderness getaways and beach resorts they
    generally frequent.

    "When you go away on holiday it's more you're roughing it in the woods,
    whereas this is a really nice restaurant," said Keyes, a member of gay
    nudist group Males Au Naturel, or MAN.

    John Ordover set up the dining club about a year ago, recruiting members
    through word of mouth and the Internet.

    "Next month is our Easter bonnet event, where everybody has to come wearing
    an Easter bonnet," said Ordover, a heavyset man with a jovial smile and
    glasses.

    Around 30 people arrived for the buffet dinner --organizers specified no hot
    soup on the menu -- most of them middle-aged, several married couples, some
    singles, the youngest perhaps in their 30s.

    "They're a good class of people, they're no different to you or I," said
    John Bussi, owner of the midtown restaurant. "They're not hurting anybody,
    it's not a wild Roman orgy."

    Health regulations
    Health regulations mean staff must remain clothed even if they wanted to
    join in. And diners must bring something to sit on -- a towel or, for
    discerning women, an elegant silk scarf.

    The restaurant's manager covered the windows to maintain privacy at the
    strictly private party. Extra heaters kept the temperature at a comfortable
    level for nudity.

    Ordover's wife, Carol, said they first went on a naturist holiday five years
    ago and she found the experience empowering. But, she explained, it's "the
    least sexual thing you can possibly imagine."

    "Men in nudist resorts are striking a bargain. They get to see as many naked
    women as they like as long as they are polite and look them straight in the
    eye," she said.

    Sherry Stafford, a petite and elegant 51-year-old with blond hair and high
    heels, brought brochures and videos advertising her travel business,
    Internaturally Travel.

    One of the flyers was for a resort called "Hedonism II" whose slogan is "Be
    wicked for a week." But she said nudists should not be confused with
    swingers.

    "Wearing clothes and going to church does not protect you from moral evil,"
    Stafford said, lamenting what she saw as a tendency to demonize people just
    because they like to be naked.

    Sandy, a slim woman in her 40s, said she never felt self-conscious about her
    body and was comfortable dining in the nude. But she did admit to being a
    bit more nervous before a recent naked yoga class attended by around 25
    people.

    "Everyone was a little concerned there would be people looking around but
    the good thing is nobody really was," she said, standing at the restaurant's
    bar before dinner.

    "If you try to maintain a yoga position you're going to fall if you start
    looking around -- and that's more embarrassing than anything else."

    Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or
    redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior
    written consent of Reuters.

  2. Sorry, I copied and pasted; didn't plan on getting the advertisement in
    there too. I'm an idiot!!!!!! Doh!

    kili

  3. "Kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Health regulations mean staff must remain clothed even if they wanted to
    join in. And diners must bring something to sit on -- a towel or, for
    discerning women, an elegant silk scarf.

    That's the part I was icky about ... I wouldn't want to be the next person
    to use the chairs ... ewww.

    nancy

  4. Nancy Young said:

    "Kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Health regulations mean staff must remain clothed even if they
    wanted to join in. And diners must bring something to sit on -- a
    towel or, for discerning women, an elegant silk scarf.

    That's the part I was icky about ... I wouldn't want to be the next
    person to use the chairs ... ewww.

    nancy

    I agree with you! I don't even sit on my own furniture naked. <shiver>

    kili

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Curly Sue) said:

    I agree with them- there's nothing awful about running around in your
    birthday suit if that's what floats your boat (and other things);
    hygiene is a different matter, other people's comfort level is
    another.

    Hygiene is not an issue. The OP stated that all participants were
    required to bring something to sit on. This is standard nudist etiquette,
    that you have to have a towel (or something else). Nobody wants to plop
    their naked butt down on a seat recently vacated by another naked butt.

    Other people's comfort level is not an issue either. The OP stated that
    this was strictly a private party.

    The references to sex were because some non-nudists assume that there has
    to be a sexual element when people are together naked. This isn't true.
    Social nudity events are very non-sexual. On the other hand, at most
    clothing-required events, the guys are checking out the women. Nude
    events are no different. Staring is rude, but people are going to be
    looking at others. Most of the time I've been to a clothing optional
    beach, I've brought my children. Now that all three are adults, they do
    their own thing. Last time I was at a CO beach, my son was there,
    although he came separately. Most of the people there were part of
    families. Most of the people were from the church camp that we were
    attending that week.

    --
    Dan Abel
    Sonoma State University
    AIS
    [email hidden]

  6. (Dan Abel) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Curly Sue) said:

    I agree with them- there's nothing awful about running around in your
    birthday suit if that's what floats your boat (and other things);
    hygiene is a different matter, other people's comfort level is
    another.

    Hygiene is not an issue. The OP stated that all participants were
    required to bring something to sit on. This is standard nudist etiquette,
    that you have to have a towel (or something else). Nobody wants to plop
    their naked butt down on a seat recently vacated by another naked butt.

    Quoted message said:

    Other people's comfort level is not an issue either. The OP stated that
    this was strictly a private party.

    Except that there was a reporter there writing about it.

    Quoted message said:

    The references to sex were because some non-nudists assume that there has
    to be a sexual element when people are together naked.

    The whole article had an exhibitionist air to it. Did we really need
    the image of a nude yoga class?

    Quoted message said:

    This isn't true.
    Social nudity events are very non-sexual. On the other hand, at most
    clothing-required events, the guys are checking out the women. Nude
    events are no different. Staring is rude, but people are going to be
    looking at others. Most of the time I've been to a clothing optional
    beach, I've brought my children. Now that all three are adults, they do
    their own thing. Last time I was at a CO beach, my son was there,
    although he came separately. Most of the people there were part of
    families. Most of the people were from the church camp that we were
    attending that week.


    My policy is don't ask :>

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

  7. "Curly Sue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    I agree with them- there's nothing awful about running around


    <snip>

    Running? I didn't see anything about running around.

    Charlie

  8. "Dan Abel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>

    Excellent reply Dan.

    Charlie

  9. "Curly Sue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (Dan Abel) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] (Curly Sue) wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    Other people's comfort level is not an issue either. The OP stated that
    this was strictly a private party.

    Except that there was a reporter there writing about it.

    There are often reporters at nudist events. Nudist organizations allow it to
    show others what nudism is about. Unfortunately, many reporters miss what is
    actually happens, prefering as you do to carry on with their preformed
    opinion. Most reporters whether they "get it" or not, prefer to write a
    slanted article that is aimed at titillation.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The references to sex were because some non-nudists assume that there has
    to be a sexual element when people are together naked.

    The whole article had an exhibitionist air to it. Did we really need
    the image of a nude yoga class?

    I agree that the article was badly written. See my above comments about
    reporters.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This isn't true.
    Social nudity events are very non-sexual. On the other hand, at most
    clothing-required events, the guys are checking out the women. Nude
    events are no different. Staring is rude, but people are going to be
    looking at others. Most of the time I've been to a clothing optional
    beach, I've brought my children. Now that all three are adults, they do
    their own thing. Last time I was at a CO beach, my son was there,
    although he came separately. Most of the people there were part of
    families. Most of the people were from the church camp that we were
    attending that week.


    My policy is don't ask :>

    Obviously. It is a more sure way to boost self-smugness and to hide one's
    fears.

    Charlie

    Quoted message said:

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

  10. Charles Gifford said:


    "Curly Sue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (Dan Abel) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] (Curly Sue) wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    Other people's comfort level is not an issue either. The OP stated that
    this was strictly a private party.

    Except that there was a reporter there writing about it.

    There are often reporters at nudist events. Nudist organizations allow it to
    show others what nudism is about. Unfortunately, many reporters miss what is
    actually happens, prefering as you do to carry on with their preformed
    opinion.

    So don't invite them. It's presumtuous to assume that other people
    have a need to be shown what nudism is about.

    Quoted message said:

    Most reporters whether they "get it" or not, prefer to write a
    slanted article that is aimed at titillation.

    Then if you keep asking them back, there's something going on at your
    end...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The references to sex were because some non-nudists assume that there has
    to be a sexual element when people are together naked.

    The whole article had an exhibitionist air to it. Did we really need
    the image of a nude yoga class?

    I agree that the article was badly written. See my above comments about
    reporters.

    It was a nudist who was quoted.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This isn't true.
    Social nudity events are very non-sexual. On the other hand, at most
    clothing-required events, the guys are checking out the women. Nude
    events are no different. Staring is rude, but people are going to be
    looking at others. Most of the time I've been to a clothing optional
    beach, I've brought my children. Now that all three are adults, they do
    their own thing. Last time I was at a CO beach, my son was there,
    although he came separately. Most of the people there were part of
    families. Most of the people were from the church camp that we were
    attending that week.


    My policy is don't ask :>

    Obviously. It is a more sure way to boost self-smugness and to hide one's
    fears.

    If it makes you feel better to think so, go ahead, although it's hard
    to know what you're imagining causes the smugness and "fears."

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

  11. "Curly Sue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Charles Gifford said:

    First of all, let me apologize for making this thread personal. While I
    deplore your statements, I should not have made it personal. We often
    disagree about things, but I appreciate hearing your point of view. In this
    case, it was something I feel strongly about. Please accept my apology.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    There are often reporters at nudist events. Nudist organizations allow it


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    show others what nudism is about. Unfortunately, many reporters miss what


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    actually happens, prefering as you do to carry on with their preformed
    opinion.

    So don't invite them. It's presumtuous to assume that other people
    have a need to be shown what nudism is about.

    Simplistic. Many reporters do the nudist/naturist movement a great service.
    The few who don't aren't invited back. Nudists/Naturists are not being
    presumtious in wanting to clarify thier beliefs. The majority of people in
    the U.S. have an incorrect understanding of nudists and what they do. It is
    to the benefit of all to understand each other is it not?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Most reporters whether they "get it" or not, prefer to write a
    slanted article that is aimed at titillation.

    Then if you keep asking them back, there's something going on at your
    end...

    As I mentioned, only a few are intentionally slanted or go for titilation.
    As far as my end.......it is larger than I would wish and it is rather pale
    at the moment. Did you presume something else? ;-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >The references to sex were because some non-nudists assume that there


    has

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >to be a sexual element when people are together naked.

    The whole article had an exhibitionist air to it. Did we really need
    the image of a nude yoga class?

    What is it about the image of a nude yoga class that bothers you? I truely
    do not understand this.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I agree that the article was badly written. See my above comments about
    reporters.

    It was a nudist who was quoted.

    But we do not know this person was a nudist. My guess is that the individual
    is not a mainstream nudist/naturist. The mention of "Hedonism Resorts" is
    another clue that the article and, at least some, of the participants are
    not mainstream nudists.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > This isn't true.
    >Social nudity events are very non-sexual. On the other hand, at most
    >clothing-required events, the guys are checking out the women. Nude
    >events are no different. Staring is rude, but people are going to be
    >looking at others. Most of the time I've been to a clothing optional
    >beach, I've brought my children. Now that all three are adults, they


    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >their own thing. Last time I was at a CO beach, my son was there,
    >although he came separately. Most of the people there were part of
    >families. Most of the people were from the church camp that we were
    >attending that week.
    >
    My policy is don't ask :>

    Obviously. It is a more sure way to boost self-smugness and to hide one's
    fears.

    If it makes you feel better to think so, go ahead, although it's hard
    to know what you're imagining causes the smugness and "fears."

    Sue, my response was over corrosive and again I apologize. It is, however,
    usually correct. The thought of nudity and what nude people get up to causes
    a great deal of fear in people who do not know the reality of the
    nudist/naturist movement. The horror of being nude in public is ultimate for
    many people. I well remember an article in the news recently when most of
    the people polled said they would rather die than strip to be decontaminated
    in the case of biological or chemical attack.

    I admit that the smugness part does go both ways. Nudists and Naturists are
    mostly correct in their positions about sexuality, especially the effect on
    children and teens. They are also spot-on about body acceptance and the
    attitude that is accepting of all body types and the bodies of those with
    disabilities. On the other hand, the desire to completely exclude any form
    of sexuality in nudism they are often, in my experience, the most sexually
    repressive people I have ever been in contact with. This too is fear -- in
    this case the fear is of actual hatred, reprisal, condemnation, social
    exposure, false rumors, physical violence, and threats of imprisonment.
    Most Southern Baptists I have known are positive hedonists in comparison!

    There is always a mid-place where acceptance of all people can exist. The
    problem is finding it. Fear and set minds in either direction is the
    hinderance.

    Again, I am sorry for our mutualy offensive posts, but especially for my
    personal comments towards you. In my life, the nicest people I have met have
    been here on r.f.c. and in nudist circles. Quite a few of them are been in
    both groups! Not all would wish to say so in this public forum, but there
    are many nudist r.f.c.'ers.

    Charlie

    Quoted message said:

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Curly Sue) said:

    The whole article had an exhibitionist air to it.

    I agree. This is true of most articles written about nudism. Articles
    are written to sell advertising, not to convey news. I can't tell you how
    many articles I've read about non-nude events I've attended, mostly city
    council meetings and school board meetings, where the article bears almost
    no relation to what actually happened.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    families. Most of the people were from the church camp that we were
    attending that week.


    My policy is don't ask :>

    I don't understand what you mean.

    --
    Dan Abel
    Sonoma State University
    AIS
    [email hidden]

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