Sorry all ...

Response to Simon Brooke:

Quoted message said:

I'm
also interested to see how Rowling manages to pull off her cyclical
narrative in book seven, given the consequences of plot developments in
book six.

Book six certainly left a lot of loose ends to tie up, and I found it
unsatisfactory for that reason. Plenty of other reasons as well, some of
which have been mentioned. Not well-written, but then none of the canon
have been well-written, IMO. Good Read, though.

(I remember - long after the hype began - when I started reading the
first book, thinking "this is not much more than Jennings and Darbishire
with broomsticks"; but I was wrong even at the time, and it has developed
a great deal since then.)

A mate of mine who occasionally buys first editions of new novels bought
a first-pressing, extra-virgin copy of the first Rowling when it came
out, because he thought it looked interesting: he's never opened it, has
it in an archival bag, and intends to sell it one day to put his - still
hypothetical - kids through school; but I suspect that Rowling will not
last, and he'll have to be careful to hit the top of the market.

Quoted message said:

Swallows and Amazons may look like a cheerful adventure
yarn for kids, but, like Harry Potter, it is a very carefully and
skillfully crafted narrative

I always thought that We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea was the best of that
canon, but I haven't read them for about twenty years. Time to take
another look, but I've just collected my copies of "Dance To The Music Of
Time" from my dad's house, so I've already got enough re-reading to do!

--
Mark, UK

"We never do anything well until we cease to think about the manner of
doing it."

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark McNeill

(') said:

I always thought that We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea was the best of that
canon, but I haven't read them for about twenty years. Time to take
another look, but I've just collected my copies of "Dance To The Music
Of Time" from my dad's house, so I've already got enough re-reading to
do!

I agree that WDMTGTS is good, but I'd put Picts and Martyrs and Missee
Lee as joint top.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark McNeill

(') said:

I always thought that We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea was the best of that
canon, but I haven't read them for about twenty years. Time to take
another look, but I've just collected my copies of "Dance To The Music
Of Time" from my dad's house, so I've already got enough re-reading to
do!

I agree that WDMTGTS is good, but I'd put Picts and Martyrs and Missee
Lee as joint top.

I was wondering about this, and I had trouble selecting a favourite. But
Missee Lee is somewhere near the bottom IMO.

Mrs Ransome, who wasn't called that but I can't remember her real name (it's
something Russian) really didn't like Picts and Martyrs - she said it was
too adult-centric.

(wife works in a library with a significant Ransome archive).

cheers,
clive

Jon Senior said:

Paul - censored said:

er ... it's the kids book ...er ... and I just sort of found it ...

My mum was trawling her way through it the day after release. But
she's an English teacher so that's understandable. I read the first
two (or three) but lost interest. It's not that I didn't enjoy them
at the time, just that I didn't care either way enough to read the
rest.
Depending on their age(s), and ability, the Northern Lights trilogy by
Philip Pullman is pretty good. Quite possibly the only worthwhile
thing to be published by Point. You probably won't have much trouble
forcing yourself to read them first. :-)

The atheist's or at least the anticlericalists Narnia, I guess. I remember
when I was in hospital for a longish stay and my agnosticish brother brought
in a copy of the Northern Lights and looked over at the box set of Narnia
that my fundamentalist sister had brought in the weekend earlier, and he
said "Oh, so if you've read all that, you probably won't be so interested in
this".

Having read Narnia for the first time with a diamorphine drip in and being
unable to sleep or eat for an entire ten days is a pretty intense
experience, I have to say. Unfortunately the post-surgical depression had
set in by the time I got to the Northern Lights, so I read it in a different
mood. But that's the one I've reread since.

Both have a pretty strong indoctrinating apologetic thread to their stories,
whereas HP is a ripping yarn. I understand the Swallowdale series, also much
beloved of the aforementioned siblings, is, but I've never read it. A
childhood spent reading car books and techy books is half wasted, I guess.
--
Ambrose

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive

George (') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark

McNeill (') said:

I always thought that We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea was the best of
that
canon, but I haven't read them for about twenty years. Time to take
another look, but I've just collected my copies of "Dance To The
Music Of Time" from my dad's house, so I've already got enough
re-reading to do!

I agree that WDMTGTS is good, but I'd put Picts and Martyrs and Missee
Lee as joint top.

I was wondering about this, and I had trouble selecting a favourite.
But Missee Lee is somewhere near the bottom IMO.

Missee Lee is very, very funny. I enjoy it enormously. But Picts and
Martyrs is also very funny, while still being part of the main story arc
(which Missee Lee emphatically isn't). But then, impossible though it is
to admit in these politically correct days, I like Peter Duck, too (is
that still available in "childrens' libraries"?)

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Wise man with foot in mouth use opportunity to clean toes.
;; the Worlock

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was wondering about this, and I had trouble selecting a favourite.
But Missee Lee is somewhere near the bottom IMO.

Missee Lee is very, very funny. I enjoy it enormously. But Picts and
Martyrs is also very funny, while still being part of the main story arc
(which Missee Lee emphatically isn't). But then, impossible though it is
to admit in these politically correct days, I like Peter Duck, too (is
that still available in "childrens' libraries"?)

Peter Duck and Missee Lee are both stories within stories. The question is,
is Great Northern? a Peter Duck or a regular story?

I've been corrected by the way - she was Mrs Ransome, it's just that my wife
always refers to her by her first name (Evgenia), so I got confused.

cheers,
clive

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive

George (') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was wondering about this, and I had trouble selecting a favourite.
But Missee Lee is somewhere near the bottom IMO.

Missee Lee is very, very funny. I enjoy it enormously. But Picts and
Martyrs is also very funny, while still being part of the main story
arc (which Missee Lee emphatically isn't). But then, impossible though
it is to admit in these politically correct days, I like Peter Duck,
too (is that still available in "childrens' libraries"?)

Peter Duck and Missee Lee are both stories within stories. The question
is, is Great Northern? a Peter Duck or a regular story?

Regular story, IMHO. There's internal reference to only two christmasses
spent in the old wherry spinning yarns (the Winter Holiday winter comes
between them, and they didn't spend that in the wherry because Captain
Flint was away, which is how they came to use the Fram); and the
schooner Wild Cat appears in both Peter Duck and Missee Lee (OK, so the
schooner gets destroyed in Missee Lee but they sort of swap it for a
junk, and that doesn't appear in Great Northern? either). Furthermore
[censored] and Dorothea appear in Great Northern? and they aren't part of the
'yarning' group. Finally, Great Northern? takes place in school
holidays, like all the 'real' stories, while both the 'yarn'-stories
imply that there is no school to go back to (apart, of course, from
Missee Lee's).

Yes, I really am something of a childrens' literature geek...

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'there are no solutions, only precipitates'

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive

George (') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>I was wondering about this, and I had trouble selecting a favourite.
>But Missee Lee is somewhere near the bottom IMO.

Missee Lee is very, very funny. I enjoy it enormously. But Picts and
Martyrs is also very funny, while still being part of the main story
arc (which Missee Lee emphatically isn't). But then, impossible though
it is to admit in these politically correct days, I like Peter Duck,
too (is that still available in "childrens' libraries"?)

Peter Duck and Missee Lee are both stories within stories. The question
is, is Great Northern? a Peter Duck or a regular story?

Regular story, IMHO. There's internal reference to only two christmasses
spent in the old wherry spinning yarns (the Winter Holiday winter comes
between them, and they didn't spend that in the wherry because Captain
Flint was away, which is how they came to use the Fram); and the
schooner Wild Cat appears in both Peter Duck and Missee Lee (OK, so the
schooner gets destroyed in Missee Lee but they sort of swap it for a
junk, and that doesn't appear in Great Northern? either). Furthermore
[censored] and Dorothea appear in Great Northern? and they aren't part of the
'yarning' group. Finally, Great Northern? takes place in school
holidays, like all the 'real' stories, while both the 'yarn'-stories
imply that there is no school to go back to (apart, of course, from
Missee Lee's).

Yes, I really am something of a childrens' literature geek...

When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the things
I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person knows
how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂 Loved it. They were all
smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was utter
utter bliss to see all those childhood names

One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

It was wonderful

dave said:

When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the things
I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person knows
how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂 Loved it. They were all
smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was utter
utter bliss to see all those childhood names

One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

It was wonderful

I used to sail on the broads at Easter as a teenager. Great fun,
especially having read the Big Six and Coot Club. We were sailing the
old yachts outh of Martham Boat yard.

Real highlights were 1. shooting Potter Heigham bridge under sail and
quant. Not for the inexperienced or timid ;-) (If you know what I mean
you'll know what I mean, if not it'll take too long to describe)

2. Sailing Meadow Dyke in a force 7-8, three reefs in, a broad reach
and a crew of four on a Japonica. One trying to hang onto a real
weather helm (decent bend in the tiller), one on jib, one on main, and
the fourth standing on the fore deck indicating which way the channel
bent next cos we were going so damned fast. Falling overboard was not
such a smart move. One of the yachts in the flotilla lost it's mast in
the wind that day, another took on rather more water than it should and
made it back to the boatyard under serious pumping before gently
foundering at the quayside.

3. Magical Norfolk nights. Real big sky country.

...d

David Martin said:

dave said:

When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the things
I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person knows
how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂 Loved it. They were all
smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was utter
utter bliss to see all those childhood names

One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

It was wonderful

I used to sail on the broads at Easter as a teenager. Great fun,
especially having read the Big Six and Coot Club. We were sailing the
old yachts outh of Martham Boat yard.

Real highlights were 1. shooting Potter Heigham bridge under sail and
quant. Not for the inexperienced or timid ;-) (If you know what I mean
you'll know what I mean, if not it'll take too long to describe)

Yeah I didnt try that. No idea how the mast came down. Thats where we
stopped for lunch tho.

Quoted message said:

2. Sailing Meadow Dyke in a force 7-8, three reefs in, a broad reach
and a crew of four on a Japonica. One trying to hang onto a real
weather helm (decent bend in the tiller), one on jib, one on main, and
the fourth standing on the fore deck indicating which way the channel
bent next cos we were going so damned fast. Falling overboard was not
such a smart move. One of the yachts in the flotilla lost it's mast in
the wind that day, another took on rather more water than it should and
made it back to the boatyard under serious pumping before gently
foundering at the quayside.

3. Magical Norfolk nights. Real big sky country.

..d

Quoted message said:

It's just the sort of thing that Rowling might pull off. As far as I'm
concerned the key things I'm looking for in book seven are

<big snippity>

That's one of the things I love about the HP series - huge big entertaining
conversations about something that doesn't matter in the slightest.

The thing that irritates me is Quidditch. Great game apart from:

The snitch. The game ending & points bonus on catching it means 99% of the
game is utterly irrelevent to the final outcome. B'ah.

On 08/03/2005 21:54:25 Simon Brooke said:

Regular story, IMHO. There's internal reference to only two christmasses
spent in the old wherry spinning yarns (the Winter Holiday winter comes
between them, and they didn't spend that in the wherry because Captain
Flint was away, which is how they came to use the Fram); and the schooner
Wild Cat appears in both Peter Duck and Missee Lee (OK, so the schooner
gets destroyed in Missee Lee but they sort of swap it for a junk, and that
doesn't appear in Great Northern? either). Furthermore [censored] and Dorothea
appear in Great Northern? and they aren't part of the 'yarning' group.
Finally, Great Northern? takes place in school holidays, like all the
'real' stories, while both the 'yarn'-stories imply that there is no
school to go back to (apart, of course, from Missee Lee's).

Quoted message said:

Yes, I really am something of a childrens' literature geek...

Swallows and Amazons is an excellent read, my nine year old daughter
read her copy so many times that is fell apart, she was given £10 by
one of my friends as an Easter gift and she went out and bought another
copy.
--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Buck <[email hidden]> wrote:
....
| Swallows and Amazons is an excellent read, my nine year old daughter
| read her copy so many times that is fell apart, she was given £10 by
| one of my friends as an Easter gift and she went out and bought another
| copy.

Best not tell her you can actually sail to Wild Cat Island (it's a bit
smaller than in the book but the secret harbour is exactly right).

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

dave <[email hidden]> wrote:
....
| When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the things
| I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person knows
| how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂

A lot of them haven't yet realised we're on an island...

| Loved it. They were all
| smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was utter
| utter bliss to see all those childhood names
|
| One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

Last time I was there (Hunter's Yard, Womack) I asked about it and they
said they'd made just a transom to hang on the stern of whatever boat
was being filmed, I don't think there's an actual "and that one was the
Teasel". Sorry if that shatters your dreams <g>.

| It was wonderful

Couldn't agree more. It's the place that line from The Wind in the
Willows was written for.

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

Patrick Herring said:

Buck <[email hidden]> wrote:
...
| Swallows and Amazons is an excellent read, my nine year old daughter
| read her copy so many times that is fell apart, she was given £10 by
| one of my friends as an Easter gift and she went out and bought another
| copy.

Best not tell her you can actually sail to Wild Cat Island (it's a bit
smaller than in the book but the secret harbour is exactly right).

I camped on an Island in a lake in Norway that was a tiny dead ringer
for Wild Cat Island. None of the scouts I was with had a clue what I
was on about.

...d

David Martin said:

None of the scouts I was with had a clue what I
was on about.

I have that trouble every Friday night.

Tim, ASL.

On 08/04/2005 22:28:47 Patrick Herring said:

Buck <[email hidden]> wrote: ....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Swallows and Amazons is an excellent read, my nine year old daughter read
her copy so many times that is fell apart, she was given £10 by one of
my friends as an Easter gift and she went out and bought another copy.

Quoted message said:

Best not tell her you can actually sail to Wild Cat Island (it's a bit
smaller than in the book but the secret harbour is exactly right).

I can just see her trying to talk me into pulling the Jaguar up to the
lakes.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

Patrick Herring said:

dave <[email hidden]> wrote:
...
| When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the things
| I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person knows
| how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂

A lot of them haven't yet realised we're on an island...

so are we 🙂

Quoted message said:

| Loved it. They were all
| smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was utter
| utter bliss to see all those childhood names
|
| One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

Last time I was there (Hunter's Yard, Womack) I asked about it and they
said they'd made just a transom to hang on the stern of whatever boat
was being filmed, I don't think there's an actual "and that one was the
Teasel". Sorry if that shatters your dreams <g>.

No the story was (and it was hunters yard) that they had supplied the
yacht that had stared as teasel (have no idea if it was theirs or not)
and at one time had had the real teasel (called something else but
actually the only yacht that Ransome had ever had built.. I think) The
had the boat that stared as swallow and were building a new broads cruiser.

It was ´Cris´ I talked to. I think I have it straight but If I dont I
dont care 🙂

Quoted message said:

| It was wonderful

Couldn't agree more. It's the place that line from The Wind in the
Willows was written for.

Yeah

Quoted message said:

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

in message <[email hidden]>, dave

(') said:

Patrick Herring said:

dave <[email hidden]> wrote:
...
| When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the
| things
| I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person
| knows
| how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂

A lot of them haven't yet realised we're on an island...

so are we 🙂

Quoted message said:

| Loved it. They were all
| smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was
| utter utter bliss to see all those childhood names
|
| One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

Last time I was there (Hunter's Yard, Womack) I asked about it and
they said they'd made just a transom to hang on the stern of whatever
boat was being filmed, I don't think there's an actual "and that one
was the Teasel". Sorry if that shatters your dreams <g>.

No the story was (and it was hunters yard) that they had supplied the
yacht that had stared as teasel (have no idea if it was theirs or not)
and at one time had had the real teasel (called something else but
actually the only yacht that Ransome had ever had built.. I think)

By 'built' do you mean actually built with his own hands? If so you may
be right (if he did this?) Teasel certainly wasn't the only - nor the
first - yacht Ransome had had built for him. Racundra came a long time
before Teasel (and there may have been others - I don't remember).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, dave

(') said:

Patrick Herring said:

dave <[email hidden]> wrote:
...
| When I was in england last.. sailing on the broads was one of the
| things
| I ´had´ to do. I was amazed to find not every english person
| knows
| how to sail sure as hell most Aussies do 🙂

A lot of them haven't yet realised we're on an island...

so are we 🙂

Quoted message said:

| Loved it. They were all
| smaller and shallower and lots safer than I expected but it was
| utter utter bliss to see all those childhood names
|
| One of the boatyards we went to had the yacht that starred as Teasel

Last time I was there (Hunter's Yard, Womack) I asked about it and
they said they'd made just a transom to hang on the stern of whatever
boat was being filmed, I don't think there's an actual "and that one
was the Teasel". Sorry if that shatters your dreams <g>.

No the story was (and it was hunters yard) that they had supplied the
yacht that had stared as teasel (have no idea if it was theirs or not)
and at one time had had the real teasel (called something else but
actually the only yacht that Ransome had ever had built.. I think)

By 'built' do you mean actually built with his own hands? If so you may
be right (if he did this?) Teasel certainly wasn't the only - nor the
first - yacht Ransome had had built for him. Racundra came a long time
before Teasel (and there may have been others - I don't remember).

I have the book RacundraÅ› first cruise somewhere.
I may have confused the story. Teasel.. the real teasel was not called
Teasel. She was Ransomes favourite yacht. ANd was a mid thirties
english cruiser type.. something around 7 tons. And she was his
favourite yacht. Teasel was somehow special to him I am certain of
that. I thought it was that he had her built but maybe I have that bit
wrong will investigate when sober 🙂