Some Training Questions

Yojimbo_ said:

does my goal seem achievable?

Yes

Quoted post said:

is my protocol reasonable, or should I consider something different?

Sounds good, but don't feel you've got to press all those efforts right up to the max for the duration. It's more than o.k. to back off a bit so that each effort is reasonable and so that you don't come to dread training sessions. For instance a lot of folks strive to set records for 2x20 sessions, it's fine to back those off to 90% of FTP, they'll still require focus but they shouldn't kill you. One approach is to work down in intensity but up in duration during your training blocks. So maybe start your 3 day block with 2x20s at 90-95% of your FTP, follow it with a couple of 30 minute efforts at 85-90% and finish the 3 day block with a straight 45 minutes to an hour at 80-85%.

Quoted post said:

should I try to mix in a longer L2 or L3 ride once a week to maintain endurance until I can get outside again? If so, should I use one of my "off" days or convert one of my "on" days?

I don't plan any indoor L2 sessions but often drop into L3 (see above) and those are definitely considered training days. I end up getting L2 work as rests between harder efforts and during warmup and cooldown but don't have L2 on my schedule as a target workout.

Quoted post said:

when should I switch to pure L4, or should I?

I don't know that I ever get to pure L4 work. L4 is hard enough that I can't do it for more than an hour to hour and a half per session even when broken into intervals and I sure can't do it day after day. I might add more L4 sessions later in the winter but it comes at the expense of building CTL so I never go to a pure L4 work week.

Quoted post said:

when should I mix in some L5, L6, and L7?Thanks in advance.

I add L5 work in late winter about 8 weeks before racing starts and then only one day a week. L6 work comes later and if you're just focusing on TTs you really don't need much if any L6 work. I'll start L7 work as soon as I get outdoors and would do it all winter if it wasn't so miserable on the trainer. Again you shouldn't need much if any pure L7 work for TTs but might do some for general riding quickness, fun and the ability to acelerate on demand. You can always do some microinterval work like Bill Black's Hour of Power workout for the latter.

Your goal seems very reasonable given your starting point. Just make sure any plan you make is something you can carry out till spring and don't hesitate to back off when you need to. A post on another thread this evening reminds me that there's risk of folks taking this stuff too literally. If you burn out on any plan and stop training then that plan has failed. Consistency for the long term comes first followed by consistency in the weekly schedule followed by time and intensity of each workout. IOW, sticking with a plan is the most important thing and sometimes that means easing up a bit or taking more time for other stuff. SST work is great that way. You can get really good training benefit across a range of intensities and don't need to hammer the high end all the time to see improvement.

Good luck,
Dave

Thanks Dave for your well thought our response.

(So far, I'm finding the SST stuff fairly easy to maintain physically - it's the mental challenge (i.e., boredom) that's the most difficult part, and AC/DC is helping me with that. I'm also starting to like the trainer, which makes the whole thing a lot easier).

+2. Dave has given us another excellent response as usual. The last paragraph holds much wisdom for those attempting to copy the training routines they see posted by others here.

Yojimbo_ said:

I live in Toronto Canada, so there isn't much chance to ride outside until mid-March (or even later).

Not necessarily :-) I used to live in Montreal where I trained and raced in the elite category (in the 90s). At the beginning of the season I had more mileage than those who spent their winter in California or N. Carolina. Training in winter, in places like Eastern Canada, isn't as tough as many people think. Of course, there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

- do not go out when it's below -10C
- you need of course proper clothing but nothing particularly speacial, just make sure your feet will remain dry on the ride
- don't go out on an usually warm day, there'll be too much water on the roads from melting and you'll be wet before you know it. This in itself isn't a problem but if you're coming home when temperatures begin to plummet, well, you may have a problem :-)

As far as I know, Toronto's winters are similar to Montreal's so I suggest you go out and try training on the road, you'll be in much better shape comes the season.

Re training on the road in winter, it's not the cold so much that puts me off, but the ice and snow.

Big piles of snow at the side of the road push you closer to the traffic, and we all know there isn't enough room in summer let alone winter. And then there's the ice that you can't see until you're on top of it.

That being said, I know a small group that will go out on Saturday morning when the conditions are ok....so I do hope to get out a little bit.

Yojimbo_ said:

Re training on the road in winter, it's not the cold so much that puts me off, but the ice and snow.....

I'm with you on the ice and snow. We get pretty cold snowy winters but it sometimes warms up enough to ride and I see folks in down jackets on mountain bikes most of the winter. But I've hit ice patches and been forced out into traffic on snowy roads before and it's not pretty. That and I find I can't do very focused training when my face, fingers and toes are frozen even with heavy booties and gloves.

I look forward to spring and riding outdoors again, but for the next few months I'll be inside on the trainer. It's a small consolation but at least the trainer time is really well focused without coasting and traffic lights to break things up. It might not be a lot of fun but it's very effective training for the time invested. And one hard crash on a patch of black ice can wipe out an awful lot of good training.

-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

I'm with you on the ice and snow. We get pretty cold snowy winters but it sometimes warms up enough to ride and I see folks in down jackets on mountain bikes most of the winter. But I've hit ice patches and been forced out into traffic on snowy roads before and it's not pretty. That and I find I can't do very focused training when my face, fingers and toes are frozen even with heavy booties and gloves.

I look forward to spring and riding outdoors again, but for the next few months I'll be inside on the trainer. It's a small consolation but at least the trainer time is really well focused without coasting and traffic lights to break things up. It might not be a lot of fun but it's very effective training for the time invested. And one hard crash on a patch of black ice can wipe out an awful lot of good training.

-Dave

Dave;

While our weather here in New york is not quite as brutal as that in Wyoming and Canada, we do get our share of ice and snow, especially north of the city.

While I am no expert mountain biker, I do like to ride nontechnical double-track trails, jeep trails and unpaved mountain roads, unpaved rails-to-trails and hardpack rural roads. A set of studded snow tires will prevent spills, and since most of the time the speed is slow, it is quite easy not to get too cold with a steady-state tempo. Think 3-4 hours, nonstop.

I find getting out in the cold weather sometimes a way to get away from the "insanity" of the trainer. Recently I put a set of knobby tires on my poprad and went into CP but went on those roads where the horses ride. Know I know where you see all those shots in movies. Great stuff and I understand why they call CX the sport of pain. It really helps with handling and just gets my brain off the trainer,,,

Otherwise switch up alot by using the electronic trainers in the gym and than using my CT in the office and than at home I have and old cyclops magnetic job with my bike that has a power meter. The one constant is I can get a power reading except on the Lemond.

It is fun to explore all types of cycling I have learned this year already.

-Js

john979 said:

Dave;

While our weather here in New york is not quite as brutal as that in Wyoming and Canada, we do get our share of ice and snow, especially north of the city.

While I am no expert mountain biker, I do like to ride nontechnical double-track trails, jeep trails and unpaved mountain roads, unpaved rails-to-trails and hardpack rural roads. A set of studded snow tires will prevent spills, and since most of the time the speed is slow, it is quite easy not to get too cold with a steady-state tempo. Think 3-4 hours, nonstop.

bump

Some small progress to report - a 10 W increase in my threshold power, as measured by taking 95% of a 20 minute interval (using the KK power meter thingie).

That test interval really hurt - next time I'll have to warm up more and try to pace myself a little better.

I must confess to a little disappointment. I could tell from the SST sessions I'm doing that my FTP had gone up, but I was hoping for a little more than a measly 10 W. Other folks on here seem to zoom up at incredible rates. Oh well, it's better than going backwards.

If I can get another 10 W in the next 5 weeks or so I'll have almost hit my winter goal - that is, if I can stay motivated. I'm starting to find it mentally difficult to ride in my basement - even ACDC isn't helping me as much as they used to.

Yojimbo_ said:

Some small progress to report - a 10 W increase in my threshold power, as measured by taking 95% of a 20 minute interval (using the KK power meter thingie).

That test interval really hurt - next time I'll have to warm up more and try to pace myself a little better.

I must confess to a little disappointment. I could tell from the SST sessions I'm doing that my FTP had gone up, but I was hoping for a little more than a measly 10 W. Other folks on here seem to zoom up at incredible rates. Oh well, it's better than going backwards.

If I can get another 10 W in the next 5 weeks or so I'll have almost hit my winter goal - that is, if I can stay motivated. I'm starting to find it mentally difficult to ride in my basement - even ACDC isn't helping me as much as they used to.

Well the trainer is a Highway to Hell. and sometimes the plateau in progress feels like you need to make Jailbreak. maybe some TNT up your clacka would help or just someone to do Dirty Deeds (Done Dirt Cheap)....

Yojimbo_ said:

Some small progress to report - a 10 W increase in my threshold power, as measured by taking 95% of a 20 minute interval (using the KK power meter thingie).

Nice job! 10w may not seem like much, but a 5% bump in ~5wks isn't too shabby.

Keep going. It's fun when spring rolls around and you get to find out which of your buddies have been training and which ones haven't. 🙂