Soccer & Massive Heart Failure?

do you have a shred of human decency? to impugn him with doping because it gives you an opportunity to continue your soap box lecturing without waiting for an inquiry to have been conducted marks you as a very low form of human. allow the medical examiners to perform their investigation and if circumstances warrant, then you might accuse him of doping. your one note symphony has been quite tedious for far too long.

What's decency got to do with it? This isn't a journal of public record, it's just another loony forum where we speculate about all kinds of rubbish. Very occasionally we even get it right-as it might be in this case. Or not. Don't get yourself so worked up about it.

slovakguy said:

do you have a shred of human decency? to impugn him with doping because it gives you an opportunity to continue your soap box lecturing without waiting for an inquiry to have been conducted marks you as a very low form of human. allow the medical examiners to perform their investigation and if circumstances warrant, then you might accuse him of doping. your one note symphony has been quite tedious for far too long.

I have yet to be wrong yet on doping matters or on fraud in general. Years ago I zealously cliamed that everyone in pro cycling used drugs. I was never proven wrong---only castigated by naive Nike-based themes and media consumers.

Many deaths and doping disclosures followed my insightful claims.

Do you dare suggest that soccer players do NOT blood dope?

How dare you sir? Too much wine for you.

slovakguy said:

do you have a shred of human decency? to impugn him with doping because it gives you an opportunity to continue your soap box lecturing without waiting for an inquiry to have been conducted marks you as a very low form of human. allow the medical examiners to perform their investigation and if circumstances warrant, then you might accuse him of doping. your one note symphony has been quite tedious for far too long.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

I have yet to be wrong yet on doping matters or on fraud in general.

Do you dare suggest that soccer players do NOT blood dope?

Eh, sorry to burst your bubble there, Hein - but practically everything that you posted re sub-prime fallout is factually incorrect and misleading.

slovakguy said:

do you have a shred of human decency? to impugn him with doping because it gives you an opportunity to continue your soap box lecturing without waiting for an inquiry to have been conducted marks you as a very low form of human. allow the medical examiners to perform their investigation and if circumstances warrant, then you might accuse him of doping. your one note symphony has been quite tedious for far too long.

Agreed.

There is no suggestion that Antonio Puerta, at this stage, was abusing drugs.

And for Hein or anyone else to suggest so - is just highly speculative.

Which warrants the question - should we terminate this thread?

Only defaults on CDOs burst your bubble and the T-Mobile's legacy as well. Even tool out Lance's Discovery Channel funding.

I understand the envy associated with being correct all of the time.

I really do.

I called this recession on July 4, 2005 for the record, that was the market top for CDOs, Real Esate, credit markets and fraud unwindings.

btw Lim: Did you see that Goldman Sachs goated out a fraud today. The 28 year old might get 161 years in prison. No need to wait for the next shoe to drop.
msnbc.msn.com20479491Open ↗

Don't you guys know a gift horse when you read one?

limerickman said:

Eh, sorry to burst your bubble there, Hein - but practically everything that you posted re sub-prime fallout is factually incorrect and misleading.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

Only defaults on CDOs burst your bubble and the T-Mobile's legacy as well. Even tool out Lance's Discovery Channel funding.

I understand the envy associated with being correct all of the time.

Hein - get the sequencing right - low interest rate, cheap money and all the rest follows from that.
Not the other way round.

Your "explanation" as to the 2001 equity crash - was totally inaccurate.
As was your summation of the sub-prime debacle.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

I called this recession on July 4, 2005 for the record, that was the market top for CDOs, Real Esate, credit markets and fraud unwindings.

Hein - I don't know whether you did or not.
I do know that based on your tenuous grasp of the what is actually going on,
I would have my doubts upon your claim (above).

Hein-Verbruggen said:

btw Lim: Did you see that Goldman Sachs goated out a fraud today. The 28 year old might get 161 years in prison. No need to wait for the next shoe to drop.
msnbc.msn.com20479491Open ↗

Don't you guys know a gift horse when you read one?

Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, : all part of the same cabal that Bernie is intent on bailing out.

Your Fed chief is on janitor duties for Greenspam's financial incontinance pants!

Lim:

OK, OK, OK: The egg came first, not the hen.

no regulations (no compliance with current regs)
no public audits (just pretext)
synthetic products/entities (SPEs, hedge funds, off-shore accounts, CDOs)
black box hedge funds hatched by bankers/brokers (ubiquitously)
deception & fraud risk pool dumping
mark-to-model pricing (Bear Stearn's specialty)
low interst rates

All combined for a perfect storm of fraud on steroids.

Nevertheless, a global recession is now upon us all. Employee layoffs across all industries will follow--some worse than others. Look for rates to devcline and Oil prices to fall sharply too. Fewer jobs and lower pay for pro cyclists too.

Very similar to the equity capital bubble busting.

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud, Wall Street a Casino for insider action.

limerickman said:

Hein - get the sequencing right - low interest rate, cheap money and all the rest follows from that.
Not the other way round.

Your "explanation" as to the 2001 equity crash - was totally inaccurate.
As was your summation of the sub-prime debacle.

Hein - I don't know whether you did or not.
I do know that based on your tenuous grasp of the what is actually going on,
I would have my doubts upon your claim (above).

Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, : all part of the same cabal that Bernie is intent on bailing out.

Your Fed chief is on janitor duties for Greenspam's financial incontinance pants!

limerickman said:

... is just highly speculative.

Which warrants the question - should we terminate this thread?

The proper way to apply this standard, of course, is to terminate the FORUM! Or at least moderate it down to maybe 1/4 of its current size.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

Why did age 22 Antonio Puerta have a massive heart attack and organ failure?

Any idea if Antonio Puerta had a blood banking acount with Dr. Fuentes or Operation Puerto? Was he using cow blood and/or other drugs?

I would venture to say "no" he didn't have an account with DrF because one would hope that if he was doping, and doing it under medical supervision, he would also have been appropriately monitored.

as Pantani was?
as Nike Cancer Armstrong was by Ferrari in 1996?
as Zanoli was?
as Zanetti was?
as Jimenez was?
as Ruscani was?
as Simpson was?
as Salanson was?
as Vermaut was?
as Mauro Gianetti was in 1998 PFCs?

MD monitoring leaves much to be desired.

matagi said:

I would venture to say "no" he didn't have an account with DrF because one would hope that if he was doping, and doing it under medical supervision, he would also have been appropriately monitored.

slovakguy said:

do you have a shred of human decency? to impugn him with doping because it gives you an opportunity to continue your soap box lecturing without waiting for an inquiry to have been conducted marks you as a very low form of human. allow the medical examiners to perform their investigation and if circumstances warrant, then you might accuse him of doping. your one note symphony has been quite tedious for far too long.

he ain't impugning anyone. The guy is dead. Read defamation law.

Seriously, you put too much weight in symbols, or societal norms. Just extrapolate the motif of Hein/Flyer/Mo' whoever he is on the day.

He is an anti-doping polemicist. And has been right, on more occasions than most here. Perhaps only HR2 has the better inside line.

So, give him a pass.

Feel free to grieve someone you do not even know. Undoubtedly a tragedy to his family, but hey, lets not get all unctuous. Go to Africa.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

I have yet to be wrong yet on doping matters or on fraud in general. Years ago I zealously cliamed that everyone in pro cycling used drugs. I was never proven wrong---only castigated by naive Nike-based themes and media consumers.

Many deaths and doping disclosures followed my insightful claims.

Do you dare suggest that soccer players do NOT blood dope?

How dare you sir? Too much wine for you.

Noam, better go back to banging on about Burma and Palestine 😄

limerickman said:

Eh, sorry to burst your bubble there, Hein - but practically everything that you posted re sub-prime fallout is factually incorrect and misleading.

I worked in the industry up until April.........oh the stories I will take to my grave.

thoughtforfood said:

I worked in the industry up until April.........oh the stories I will take to my grave.

Lim needs to hear them. He is disconnected from the present economy.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

I called this recession on July 4, 2005 for the record, that was the market top for CDOs, Real Esate, credit markets and fraud unwindings.

Yea, well I called it mid-march when I left the lender for whom I had worked for over 2.5 years. Tells me you really didnt know all that much. Hell, we in the industry were talking about this over a year ago.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

I have yet to be wrong yet on doping matters or on fraud in general. Years ago I zealously cliamed that everyone in pro cycling used drugs. I was never proven wrong---only castigated by naive Nike-based themes and media consumers.

You claim everybody dopes and if & when an number of riders get caught you say see I told you so! Thats not everybody, so in affect you are continuely being proved wrong because riders are passing doping tests. Fine! you'll say they are outsmarting the controls but so far I have yet to see you prove they are "ALL" doping. As you say you have yet to be proved wrong but you are a long way from being proved right.

Short Memory??? this you posted the other day on the 'hypothetical tour' thread. You say Brad McGee would win the tour. Goes against your ALL statement doesn't it?

Hein-Verbruggen said:

Wolf--you said yourself that they ALL dope--heck, even the LAF board has dopers.

Back on topic:
Without doping, Bradley McGee (assuming his back pain can be managed w/o corticoids) would win the TDF by 15+ minutes. But the average speed would plummet from 46 kph to 32 kph over the 21 stages.

McGee even finished top ten in the Giro and has superior power to any top ten TDF winner of the past 20 years.

Australia would finally win a Tour if cow blood were not in play.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

Marco Pantani died at 34.
Denis Zanetti died at 32.
Jose Maria Jimenez at 32.
Stive Vermaut, Fabrice Salanson, Michel Zanoli, Tim Pauwells
and dozens of others, incuding Tom Simpson.

Why did age 22 Antonio Puerta have a massive heart attack and organ failure?
msnbc.msn.com20450427Open ↗

Any idea if Antonio Puerta had a blood banking acount with Dr. Fuentes or Operation Puerto? Was he using cow blood and/or other drugs?

Too many parallels with cycling. Puerta is Spanish---- so I do NOT expect any doping dossiers from Puerto to be released

Will the TV funded sports media invesigate this strange death?

Excellent questions. It's not just cycling thats dirty. This is the second high profile death of a football player by heart attack in a couple of years. Is it just a terrible coincidence or is there something else?

BTW, theres an interview with Paul Kimmage in the 16 Aug edition of Cycling Weekly where (among other things) he states that he questioned world Tennis no. 2 Rafael Nadal about the OP list at the Hamburg Masters a few weeks back. Kimmage claims that Nadals answers were 'unsatisfactory' and evasive.

Make of it what you will (and I know that strictly this is no place for speculation) but an English cup tie was abandoned last night when a 27yr old collapsed and was taken to a intensive care cardiac unit.

classic1 said:

Excellent questions. It's not just cycling thats dirty. This is the second high profile death of a football player by heart attack in a couple of years. Is it just a terrible coincidence or is there something else?