So would Landis have won anyway?

Eldron said:

If Basso/Ullrich and co. were there would Landis have won anyway? I'm assuming that Landis will win which is a rather brave statement to make given this year's tour....

I started out saying I wouldn't watch the tour after Jan and co were left out but when you love cycling you love cycling and ended up watching just about every stage.

So the big question is would Lanids have won anyway?

Some info to use:

2003:
Ulle over Basso: 9 minutes
Ulle over Sastre: 17 minutes
Ulle over Landis: 154 minutes (but Landis was a Lance worker back then)
Pereiro & Kloden didn't ride or abandoned (can't remember)

2004:
Kloden over Basso: 20 seconds!
Kloden over Ulle: 2.5 minutes
Kloden over Sastre: 13 minutes
Kloden over Pereiro: 16 minutes
Kloden over Landis: 36 minites (working for Lance again)

2005:
Basso over Ulle: 2 minutes
Basso over Landis: 8 minutes
Basso over Pereiro: 12 minutes
Basso over Sastre: 29 minutes

Mancebo also beat Sastre, Pereiro and Landis in 2005.

Personally I feel Sastre/Landis/Pereiro/Kloden would have been beaten by Ulle/Basso and Mancebo.

Gotta say thought - this year's tour harks back to the days of Ciapucci, Delgado, Bugno and co. Rip roaring, tough to predict, exciting to the last minute, it aint over til it's over style racing!

I wonder if the Vuelta will be as good? One can only hope!!!

Its all pure speculation anyway but for what its worth, I think Basso would have been unbeatable. But I think Landis might have run him to within a couple of minutes. Basso I think is stronger in the mountains and it would have made all the difference

Before this tour everyone was saying the Tour had a relatively boring parcours. Too many ITTs and flat stages. And for that reason Jan would have been favourite

Well based on what we've seen I think the moutnain stages were very tough and that Ulle wouldnt have stayed with Basso and Landis. We saw him leaking time to Basso and Armstrong over the years on the mountains, and with challenges like this years I think he would have really struggled to podium.

IMO, Basso would have shattered this tour, though it is hard to pinpoint how good Ulrich would have been.

No, Landis wouldn't have won. He lost ten minutes two days ago, and who knows how much this would have been, if Basso and Ullrich were in the race as well. And I assume that with one of the two in yellow, either CSC or TMO would have probably made the pace earlier and not let Landis away that much.

Not to mention that, as good as Landis might be in the TT, Ullrich probably would have given him between one and two minutes in each Time Trial.

(Not to mention that it was Jan Ullrich weather during the whole Tour. *Sigh* I know that they probably cheated, even though it's likely most cyclist do, but I cannot deny that I still would have loved to see Basso and Jan. :o )

JensCph said:

IMO, Basso would have shattered this tour, though it is hard to pinpoint how good Ulrich would have been.

He would have had Sastre as well as the excellent Voigt and Schleck working for him. A formidable team.

Tonto said:

He would have had Sastre as well as the excellent Voigt and Schleck working for him. A formidable team.

It would have been a good Ulle/Basso head to head and CSC/T-Mobile head to head. Both riders and both teams are strong.

Might have been a bit suffocating though - I don't think we would have had the same fireworks we had this year.

Given the option I think I would prefer Ulle/Mancebo/Basso & Sevilla in the TdF.

I don't believe he would have. CSC and T-Mobile are using support riders as contenders this year. The pace would have been faster and the dynamics totally different.
Then again if they are guilty then he should have won anyway.

Eldron said:

If Basso/Ullrich and co. were there would Landis have won anyway? I'm assuming that Landis will win which is a rather brave statement to make given this year's tour....

I would ask how would Landis have done if Basso and Ullrich were in the race and clean. But it's all speculation now.

Eldron said:

If Basso/Ullrich and co. were there would Landis have won anyway?

No. Probably not even on the podium.

But then the race may not have been as exciting and open as this year's.

as far as i'm concerned, the only question if ullrich and basso had competed is which one would have come in first and which one second (barring injury of course).

Like I stated before: cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗
He definatly would have taken 3rd. No worse.

lw

lwedge said:

Like I stated before: cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗
He definatly would have taken 3rd. No worse.

lw

Basso and Ullrich...with or without?

bobke said:

Basso and Ullrich...with or without?

With Basso and Big Chain Ring(Ulle) racing, I think landis would have taken 3rd maybe a close 2nd.

But this is all speculation. Who knows what would have happened.

lw

Maybe Basso would crack after his Giro effort??

Maybe Landis would have avoided his bad day, and STILL could put on a big show at the end??

Maybe Ullrich would crush them both??

Maybe Landis would have got a 30 min "gift."??
...

In my opinion, he wouldnt have...

Landis was isolated a hell of a lot in the mountains. Image Basso being set-up by Sastre and Ullrich paced by Kloden.....

There would have been no chance Basso would have let Landis go on the last mountain stage - no chance...

lwedge said:

Like I stated before: cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗
He definatly would have taken 3rd. No worse.

lw

Definitely?

Do you make a lot of money from gambling?

YOur list doesn't show anyone in the correct order that they finished.

a CLEAN basso and ullrich? probably would have gotten beat by basso but not ullrich

cheapie said:

a CLEAN basso and ullrich? probably would have gotten beat by basso but not ullrich

Yeah - I don't understand this clean statement either - both Basso and Ullrich have never tested positive...

Apart from Ulle's little out of season party drug 😉

Ulle has had 11 out of season tests this year (not to mention all the race tests - including one when he won the TT in the Giro) - when could he have taken a magic blood cocktail and NOT get caught? Specifically how could he have taken that concoction at the TT if he was tested and found clean?

/thinks something fishy is going on....

Ah well - the sports politicians are in control so I guess we'll never know the truth.