So, will Valverde...

Sonarrat said:

...Jump ship? It seems inevitable to me with the Manzano
storm, even if Kelme doesn't dissolve in disgrace. If so,
to where? Illes Balears? Manolo Saiz' Personal Fantasy
Cycling Team? Perhaps he can claim Basqueness and latch on
to Euskaltel-Euskadi?

I think his best bet might be to hook up with one of the
two "other" new Spanish Div. I teams, namely Relax-Bodysol
and Saunier Duval-Prodir. They are both highly ambitious,
but wanting for talent and results. But in the case of Relax-
Bodysol, Patrick Lefevre will probably want him on
Quick.Step instead...

It is probably more likely, though, that he will land on
one of the really big teams, like Fassa Bortolo, T-Mobile
or Quick.Step-Davitamon... they seem to have a penchant
for scooping up local stars on dead-end teams.

-Sonarrat.

I'd bet not he's got a very large buyout clause in his
contract. Most if not all of the teams mentioned aren't
likely to have anu money left for a substantial salery *and*
the buyout.

"Faster Bordello" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd bet not he's got a very large buyout clause in his
contract. Most if not all of the teams mentioned aren't
likely to have anu money left for a substantial salery
*and* the buyout.

I doubt the buyout would be in effect if Kelme can't pay his
salary. Remember last fall when Bianchi started to raise a
stink about Ullrich appearing in T-Mobile presentations?
They shut up after it was brought to light that they owed
him back pay.

Carl Sundquist said:

"Faster Bordello" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I'd bet not he's got a very large buyout clause in his
contract. Most if not all of the teams mentioned aren't
likely to have anu money left for a substantial salery
*and* the buyout.

I doubt the buyout would be in effect if Kelme can't pay
his salary. Remember last fall when Bianchi started to
raise a stink about Ullrich appearing in T-Mobile
presentations? They shut up after it was brought to light
that they owed him back pay.

hmm true but is that the case here? I've not heard that he
wasn't getting paid. Of course if Kelme folds then the world
is wide open. It would be interesting to see which teams
have any money avilable.

Lots of speculation, considering Manzano has cast a shadow
over the entire team. Is Valverde clean? Whatever has been
happening in Kelme has probably stopped. Results for the
next month should be interesting.

Sonarrat said:

...Jump ship? It seems inevitable to me with the Manzano
storm, even if Kelme doesn't dissolve in disgrace. If so,
to where? Illes Balears? Manolo Saiz' Personal Fantasy
Cycling Team? Perhaps he can claim Basqueness and latch on
to Euskaltel-Euskadi?

I think his best bet might be to hook up with one of the
two "other" new Spanish Div. I teams, namely

Quoted message said:

Relax-Bodysol and Saunier Duval-Prodir. They are both
highly ambitious, but wanting for talent and results.

Setmana Catalana Final general classification

1 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 21.21.03 2
M.A. Martin Perdiguero (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 0.02 3
Josep Jufre (Spa) Relax-Bodysol

How's them apples?

Quoted message said:

But in the case of Relax-Bodysol, Patrick Lefevre will
probably want him on Quick.Step instead...

It is probably more likely, though, that he will land on
one of the really big teams, like Fassa Bortolo, T-Mobile
or Quick.Step-Davitamon... they seem to have a penchant
for scooping up local stars on dead-end teams.

-Sonarrat.

in article [email hidden], Richard Adams at
[email hidden] wrote on 3/28/04 2:12 PM:

Quoted message said:

Lots of speculation, considering Manzano has cast a shadow
over the entire team. Is Valverde clean? Whatever has been
happening in Kelme has probably stopped. Results for the
next month should be interesting.

Sonarrat said:

...Jump ship? It seems inevitable to me with the Manzano
storm, even if Kelme doesn't dissolve in disgrace. If so,
to where? Illes Balears? Manolo Saiz' Personal Fantasy
Cycling Team? Perhaps he can claim Basqueness and latch
on to Euskaltel-Euskadi?

I think his best bet might be to hook up with one of the
two "other" new Spanish Div. I teams, namely

Quoted message said:

Relax-Bodysol and Saunier Duval-Prodir. They are both
highly ambitious, but wanting for talent and results.

Setmana Catalana Final general classification

1 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 21.21.03 2
M.A. Martin Perdiguero (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 0.02 3
Josep Jufre (Spa) Relax-Bodysol

How's them apples?

Yeah, so? Seven of the top 10 were little Spanish climbers
after the penultimate stage... the likes of Salvoldelli and
Ullrich weren't exactly eager to win an early-season
Spanish race.

-Sonarrat.

in article [email hidden], Faster Bordello at
[email hidden] wrote on 3/28/04 10:45 AM:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

...Jump ship? It seems inevitable to me with the Manzano
storm, even if Kelme doesn't dissolve in disgrace. If so,
to where? Illes Balears? Manolo Saiz' Personal Fantasy
Cycling Team? Perhaps he can claim Basqueness and latch
on to Euskaltel-Euskadi?

I think his best bet might be to hook up with one of the
two "other" new Spanish Div. I teams, namely Relax-
Bodysol and Saunier Duval-Prodir. They are both highly
ambitious, but wanting for talent and results. But in the
case of Relax-Bodysol, Patrick Lefevre will probably want
him on Quick.Step instead...

It is probably more likely, though, that he will land on
one of the really big teams, like Fassa Bortolo, T-Mobile
or Quick.Step-Davitamon... they seem to have a penchant
for scooping up local stars on dead-end teams.

-Sonarrat.

I'd bet not he's got a very large buyout clause in his
contract. Most if not all of the teams mentioned aren't
likely to have anu money left for a substantial salery
*and* the buyout.

That won't matter if Kelme ceases to exist.

-Sonarrat.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Sonarrat
in article [email hidden], Faster Bordello at
[email hidden] wrote on 3/28/04 10:45 AM:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

...Jump ship? It seems inevitable to me with the Manzano
storm, even if Kelme doesn't dissolve in disgrace. If so,
to where? Illes Balears? Manolo Saiz' Personal Fantasy
Cycling Team? Perhaps he can claim Basqueness and latch
on to Euskaltel-Euskadi?

I think his best bet might be to hook up with one of the
two "other" new Spanish Div. I teams, namely Relax-
Bodysol and Saunier Duval-Prodir. They are both highly
ambitious, but wanting for talent and results. But in the
case of Relax-Bodysol, Patrick Lefevre will probably want
him on Quick.Step instead...

It is probably more likely, though, that he will land on
one of the really big teams, like Fassa Bortolo, T-Mobile
or Quick.Step-Davitamon... they seem to have a penchant
for scooping up local stars on dead-end teams.

-Sonarrat.

I'd bet not he's got a very large buyout clause in his
contract. Most if not all of the teams mentioned aren't
likely to have anu money left for a substantial salery
*and* the buyout.

That won't matter if Kelme ceases to exist.

-Sonarrat.

I'll bet Kelme lowers his buyout figure hoping to get something out of him before they fold the team completely - since at that point Kelme will get nothing from a buyout clause.

Quoted message said:

Setmana Catalana Final general classification

1 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 21.21.03 2
M.A. Martin Perdiguero (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 0.02

curious to see what Martin does now that he's not dragging
Mario's fat butt over the mountains. Showed consistancy in
last years Vuelta.

Quoted message said:

3 Josep Jufre (Spa) Relax-Bodysol

I also wonder what the next couple of months will show.....
unfortunately.

salvo was top 10 I believe.....

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I'll bet Kelme lowers his buyout figure hoping to get
something out of him before they fold the team completely
- since at that point Kelme will get nothing from a
buyout clause.

I'll bet they wo't have a choice and this discount has
already been factored in by any teams seriously considering
it. Since the value of the buyout clause is already near
"zero" (the value is dtermined by what the buyer gets from
it). Who would pay the full value of a buyout clause when
the season is well under way and it looks like the contract
will be void soon regardless?

Chris said:

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

I'll bet Kelme lowers his buyout figure hoping to get
something out of him before they fold the team completely
- since at that point Kelme will get nothing from a
buyout clause.

I'll bet they wo't have a choice and this discount has
already been factored in by any teams seriously
considering it. Since the value of the buyout clause is
already near "zero" (the value is dtermined by what the
buyer gets from it). Who would pay the full value of a
buyout clause when the season is well under way and it
looks like the contract will be void soon regardless?

One team bidding against another would.

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

I'll bet Kelme lowers his buyout figure hoping to get
something out of him before they fold the team
completely - since at that point Kelme will get nothing
from a buyout clause.

I'll bet they wo't have a choice and this discount has
already been factored in by any teams seriously
considering it. Since the value of the buyout clause is
already near "zero" (the value is dtermined by what the
buyer gets from it). Who would pay the full value of a
buyout clause when the season is well under way and it
looks like the contract will be void soon regardless?

One team bidding against another would.

In theory maybe, but that would normally be put in to the
riders packet and not the team that holds a buyout clause.
Get real. Why would two teams bid against each other to the
team that will not exist much longer? They would not. The
bidding would be for Valverde's signature, not the sig. of
the team he is departing from. Then again, I know there is
the obligatory contradictory opinion no matter how little
logic is behind it. Thanks for playing.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Chris
"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

I'll bet Kelme lowers his buyout figure hoping to get
something out of him before they fold the team
completely - since at that point Kelme will get nothing
from a buyout clause.

I'll bet they wo't have a choice and this discount has
already been factored in by any teams seriously
considering it. Since the value of the buyout clause is
already near "zero" (the value is dtermined by what the
buyer gets from it). Who would pay the full value of a
buyout clause when the season is well under way and it
looks like the contract will be void soon regardless?

One team bidding against another would.

In theory maybe, but that would normally be put in to the
riders packet and not the team that holds a buyout clause.
Get real. Why would two teams bid against each other to the
team that will not exist much longer? They would not. The
bidding would be for Valverde's signature, not the sig. of
the team he is departing from. Then again, I know there is
the obligatory contradictory opinion no matter how little
logic is behind it. Thanks for playing.

The point is, Kelme has nothing to lose by lowering the buyout figure NOW, hoping that someone will pay it. Chris is right though, AV doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to so a buyout deal would only bypass the painful period while Kelme pretends it's contract with him is still valid even though they aren't even a team.

Chris said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

"DiabloScott" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
>
>
> I'll bet Kelme lowers his buyout figure hoping to get
> something out of him before they fold the team
> completely - since at that point Kelme will get nothing
> from a buyout clause.

I'll bet they wo't have a choice and this discount has
already been factored in by any teams seriously
considering it. Since the value of the buyout clause is
already near "zero" (the value is dtermined by what the
buyer gets from it). Who would pay the full value of a
buyout clause when the season is well under way and it
looks like the contract will be void soon regardless?

One team bidding against another would.

In theory maybe, but that would normally be put in to the
riders packet and not the team that holds a buyout clause.
Get real. Why would two teams bid against each other to
the team that will not exist much longer? They would not.
The bidding would be for Valverde's signature, not the
sig. of the team he is departing from. Then again, I know
there is the obligatory contradictory opinion no matter
how little logic is behind it. Thanks for playing.

BUZZ. I'm sorry, that's the wrong answer. Your argument is
full of assumptions and guesses. However, we have some
lovely parting gifts for you, including the exclusive title
Dumbass. And of course you're welcome to study logic a bit
and come back and try again.

You asked a question, and get snotty when you get an answer.
If you've already decided on the answer, why bother? You've
got great usenet presence.

It depends on how badly a team wants him. It could take
Kelme a long time to fold - if at all. They are not division
1 now, so keeping someone of AV's caliber is even more
important as an edge over their competion and if they hope
in the future to get back into division 1. Kelme controls
whether AV stays or goes. A team wants him badly enough,
they'll pay more for him. Two teams want him, bidding war.
There are 6 months of racing left, and if AV switches teams,
he's good to go from day 1. So much for your flawed argument
about the season being well underway.

There are reasons why Kelme may get a good bit of AV's
buyout clause paid for. Depends on the demand side of the
equation, and Kelme's plans for the future. There's no sure
answer one way or the other.

in article [email hidden], Faster Bordello at
[email hidden] wrote on 3/29/04 12:01 AM:

Quoted message said:

salvo was top 10 I believe.....

Paolo Salvoldelli?

Stage 1: #109 @ 16:35 Stage 2: #68 @ 11:07 Stage 3: #43 @
0.00 Stage 4: #68 @ 11:29 Stage 5: #36 @ 0.09

Final GC: #69 @ 39.18

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in article [email hidden], Faster
Bordello at [email hidden] wrote on 3/29/04 12:01 AM:

Quoted message said:

salvo was top 10 I believe.....

Paolo Salvoldelli?

It's SA - vol - delli, not saLvoldelli.

Faster Bordello <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Faster Bordello" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I'd bet not he's got a very large buyout clause in his
contract. Most if not all of the teams mentioned aren't
likely to have anu money left for a substantial salery
*and* the buyout.

I doubt the buyout would be in effect if Kelme can't pay
his salary. Remember last fall when Bianchi started to
raise a stink about Ullrich appearing in T-Mobile
presentations? They shut up after it was brought

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

light that they owed him back pay.

hmm true but is that the case here? I've not heard that he
wasn't getting paid. Of course if Kelme folds then the
world is wide open. It would be interesting to see which
teams have any money avilable.

Bodysol, perhaps?